Vvt-i Air/fuel Controller

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
There are a bunch out there - depends on what you ulitmately want and have in your budget. Can't really say which is better - since it depends on what mods you are currently running or will be running. For most - it is whatever they can get theor hands on and at a best price - as these can run from a few hundred to thousands of dollars.

CAMCON, GReddy E-Manage, A'PEXi S-AFCII, HydraEMS, MegaSquirt, and a few other big name ones. There is also a mix of piggyback controllers and standalone variants included in that list - there are pros and cons with both, depends on what you want to get into.

 

Alzzy

New member
My current Mods are: CAI, custom headers, custom downpiping, sports exhaust.

I read that only CAMCON supports VVT-I and the rest don't and are basically for Vtec engines and not VVT-I.

Basically i was looking at more fuel injection - higher torque at lower rpm's . My friend has a A'PEXi S-AFCII in his Civic but I read that it does not support VVTI, and camcon is the only one available out there tat supports VVT-I.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/POWER-ENTER...54355QQtcZphoto

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
Support for VVT-i is hit or miss. I know of a few Matrix owners that run a CAMCON - power gains are good, but not as high as they expected. The GReddy Ultimate is sold as a piggyback hat has standalone unit power and programability - but little hard to set up. Cost of the Greddy is hard to calculate - as a good portion of the cost is in wiring for the unit (don't want to chop up the exisiting wiring). Most people that have run the GReddy and GReddy Ultimate have been very pleased with them (all Corollas 1ZZFE with VVT-i - almost all run boost as well).

 

Alzzy

New member
Greddy & Greddy ultimate have to be run together or the latter just a newer version. (and why do you have to wire the unit if it is already wired?)

You mentioned 'all run boost as well' ? I have heard of boost controllers. Are you pointing at them in your context? What do they do and which one should I go for if i was to get the Camcon.

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
Sorry - there are two variants of the GReddy unit - one is the regular unit, and there is a more advanced "ultimate" variant. GReedy is notorious for not including a universal wiring harness - as they vary from car to car. To get a car specific harness - you have to add it to your total order. When I got mine - it was $400 for the GReddy and $200 for the wiring harness.

As for "almost all run boost as well" - most of them run GReedy with their turbocharged setups on the Corolla (all custom turbo work). A boost controller is completely separate from these - the CAMCOM and Greddy are piggyback air fuel controllers (they control spark timing, air/fuel mix, and injector duration). Boost controllers work on the principle of a feedback system with the wastegate on the turbocharger. They make sure that the boost level is consistent and accurate - this will help protect your engine from potential engine damage in cases of overboost or lowboost for a given fuel map. Some piggyback units have boost controller capability - but usually better to have a dedicated unit for each task (some vendors make better airfuel computers than boost controllers).

 

GarrettSocling

New member
Maybe 10HP?

The Camcon is really easy to install if you aren't afraid to cut up your ECU harness! The VVT-i settings give you a bit of pep, and depending on how your current mods effected your WOT AFR, the MAF adjustment capabilities of the Camcon could give you a little additional power too...but you really need a wideband AFR sensor to dial in the best setting (probably around 13.3 on normally aspirated engines from what I've read).

I have the Camcon, haven't had a single problem, but I can't say 100% how much gains I've seen. I also have an AFR so I could use the A/F adjustment to tweak that across the RPM range. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the eManage unless you decide to add forced induction to you engine. Basic two dimensional RPM-based WOT A/F adjustment, VVT-i adjustment = CamCon. Elaborate A/F adjustment, injector pulse width, ignition timing = eManage

 
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Alzzy

New member
The Camcon is really easy to install if you aren't afraid to cut up your ECU harness! ---When you say ECU harness you dont mean the ECU itself right? Because that contains the factory settings so if you turn off the CAMCON it switches to the Factory ECU, right?

WOT =??

but you really need a wideband AFR sensor to dial in the best setting (probably around 13.3 on normally aspirated engines from what I've read). -----Does the corolla not come with a AFR sensor at the moment or just not a wideband one? If it does not come with one how do I fit the AFR sensor in? Could you recommend one I can get please so i'll order it with the CAMCON.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the eManage unless you decide to add forced induction to you engine. --

When you say forced induction do you mean a turbo charged application? Superchargers do not fall into forced inductions or do they (TRD Supercharger) ?

 
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GarrettSocling

New member
Err...

The CamCon intercepts and alters the VVT-i settings, but when you shut it off it allows the stock signal to flow through. It simply rides piggyback on the MAF signal, doesn't intercept, so again when it is turned off it allows the signal to flow through normally.

You should look under your glovebox for your ECU and decide if you feel comfortable taking a pair of wire strippers and cutting/soldering stuff under there. There isn't a lot of room, and you might only get once chance if you make a bad mistake reading the wiring diagrams...

WOT = wide open throttle. The CamCon only adjusts the AFR in WOT, since it is simply tweaking the MAF sensor reading. In WOT, the ECU ignores its own oxygens sensor readings, no longer trying to maintain stoich, and instead runs off a safe map programmed in the ECU, combined with the airflow data. The CamCon adjusts the MAF sensor reading to either enrich or lean out the AFR by telling the ECU it sees more or less air than it actually does.

Superchargers do fall into forced induction, but most people just run the TRD supplied engine management in that situation. The few running TRD superchargers on their 05+ have to by necessity run an aftermarket solution like eManage.

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
Garrett, nice! When did you pick up the CAMCON? I need to check out 9thgen forum more often
.

Alzzy - you don't really need a wideband O2 sensor - but if you plan on getting the most from any modification to the engine, you need to see what exactly the engine is doing.

The OEM O2 sensor only works within a narrow operating range (accurate only around a very narrow range at or around stoichiometric 14.7:1 A/F mix). This will not help you tune the engine at all - tuning via a narrowband sensor or no tuning at all are the most common reasons for damaging the engine with a forced induction setup or limiting your current gains with a normally aspirated engine. A wideband sensor has much greater resolution, reaction, and range - at the cost of a lower lifespan. Unless you have someone that will share their air/fuel map with the exact same bolt-ons on your vehicle, a wideband is a smart investment.

With a wideband, better engine management, and modest mods to I/H/E (Intake/Header/Exhaust), like Garrett mentioned - maybe 10HP or so. That is actually quite significant on the 1ZZ-FE engine, since it is already pretty well tuned from the factory.

 

Alzzy

New member
1) If I just went for the CAMCON without getting a wideband sensor (assuming I am not running forced induction)-would I not be able to get any engine tuning done to get any gains out of it? It does not say in the product that a wideband sensor would be required to get modest gains. Plus I know a couple of people who have used A'PEXi S-AFCII on their civics (not running forced induction) without changing the sensor to a wideband one and gotten considerable gains as far as they say it. Does it mean that the stock civic sensor has a wider band or are they're engines tilll not tuned to get the most out.?

2)The few running TRD superchargers on their 05+ have to by necessity run an aftermarket solution like eManage --Is this because the 05+ Corollas have a 2zz-GE engine and the TRD supercharger was designed for 1zz-fe 03-04 Corollas, so the 05+ can not use the TRD supplied engine management ?

3) If I were to get a TRD supercharger than there would be no use of the CAMCON right? Assuming the TRD engine management ECU would work for me? Would that then control the A/F mix? If I ran the TRD setup would I still need the wideband sensor to tune better or would the engine management solution by TRD solve that?

4)Is it possible to alter the A/F mix on a VVT-i with a A'PEXi S-AFCII or does it only support VTEC & i-vtec?

5)Aside from the above- if I were to get a TRD supercharger unit for my rolla, since it is an automatic, would I require a transmission cooler? Possibility for my automatic transmission to wear out rapidly?

 
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GarrettSocling

New member
I got the CamCon last year on eBay for a very good price. As soon as I saw it for $225, I knew I'd have to buy it


You'd get minor gains without the wideband, as PowerEnterprises provides default VVT-i settings which are supposed to be an improvement over stock. Those settings probably then need tuned further, but you really can't do that without repeated runs on a dynamometer. With the wideband, you'd be able to further tune your engine as you added new mods. I really don't know what a SAFC is, nor how you'd be able to use it without tuning it, other than it has a map it ships with that is pre-tuned to overcome known shortcomings in the specific honda engine it is being installed into.

A wideband can be sorta a pain to install, the guy who I had mount my bung on my stock header really scratched everything to hell while taking it out. I took that header off a few days later and it came out effortlessly if you took the shields off first. It pays to find a good shop (which I haven't yet, after all these years of visiting garages...)

The people running the 05 Corollas are using eManage (I believe) because the supplied TRD engine management needs to tie into the stock ECU, which has changed pinouts from 03/04 to 05+

The CamCon should provide gains on any engine, but the factory supplied VVT-i settings may no longer be ideal, the unit would need retuned. The very quick and easy access to the rough WOT AFR tuning capabilities is pretty nice too. Not worthless, but not a wildly compelling device either.

No idea about the SAFC. I never see substantial mention of it at any of the forums I read, but each group seems to have their own preferences. You'd have to just take a look at what it does, in general most import engines function the same, and engine management that works on one typically works on another...I think...

I don't think the fluid ends up being the weak link, from what I've read there are softer bits inside both the automatic and manual transmissions that are likely to fail as the HP increases. However, at the modest 175HP you might be making, transmission failure shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure to increase your fluid change interval. Auto tranny fluid should probably be changed every 20-30k, especially if you drive spirited. Grandma might be able to get away with 60-90k intervals, but I wouldn't.

 

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