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Bull6791

Fluid Question

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On 05 corolla at 77,000 had trans fluid drained and flushed. Mechanic used WOLF HEAD SYNTHETIC ATF. I want to use a different trans fluid how do I know what is compatible. Like Toyota T-IV or Valvoline max life.

Also how do you get all Wolf head ATF out before you put new trans fluid in.

Frank.

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Haven't heard of Wolf-s Head brand in some time - must have been atleast 20-25 years. I still have some of the old type oil cans, the ones that have to be pierced by a specialty funnel - non-detergent motor oil.

 

That said - it is a universal fluid, but surprisingly does not indicate that it is JWS 3309 compliant - which is Toyota Type T-IV that you need. The specs of the fluid seem to point at a slightly thinner fluid, that seem more conventional in specs - not synthetic. Doesn't mean that it isn't synthetic - but its specs are worse that the OEM Toyota T-IV ATF that is known to be conventional or semi-synthetic (depending on who you ask).

 

Maybe that the fluid is perfectly fine. Might be worthwhile to just drive around and see how it works, all up to you. Personally, if it was my car - I would be pretty upset. Universal fluids vary wildly in performance - a one fluid for all makes doesn't much sense to me, especially with the wide range of required friction modifiers and viscosity variances. Some cases - it is perfectly fine to use (ie, Dexron apps), other cases - could be something that shortens the life of the transaxle, unfortunately won't know for some time. You never know - this fluid could be awesome in the transaxle - on the other hand, it could completely burn up the clutches tomorrow - like they say, your mileage may vary.

 

To be absolutely sure - have to drain all of the old fluid out and replace with spec fluid. That means pan drop, replace filter, and pump the existing ATF through the transaxle pump. They make special machines to do this - or you can do it yourself from the cooler lines. Lots of documentation online to show you have to do this yourself. If you want a shop to do it - make sure they use the inlet pump type flusher - not the line flusher or dipstick flushing machine. You want the transaxle to move the fluid on its own, don't want to pressurize the system. Might consider doing a short fluid run and flush again.

 

Only had one previous case where the dealership put different fluid than what I asked for (house fluid + friction modifier) - took three flushes and two months before I was satisfied that all the wrong fluid was out. I was fortunate, as I've pulled prior UOAs on the car before the fluid was flushed out. I was able to quickly determine if the fluid was working correctly or not - original fluid showed little wear metals, good additive package - immediately after the fluid change, wear metals increased 200-fold, oil looked like silver slurry. The car only ran about three days on this fluid before I convinced the dealership this was a bad thing. This was on my old Camry - quick action saved its transaxle - and it ran the most common fluid, Dexron ATF.

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When I drove into a flood and my car started floating away. And I climbed out of the window to pull the car to dry land with the engine still running. (79 chevy). I just

 

Changed the tranny fluid, drove it for awhile and changed it again to get all the water out of the torque converter.

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^^^ That must have been something. I did something similar with a flatbed truck - just finished a custom paint job a project car and was bringing it back home when I tried to ford a freshly flooded road - didn't realize it was that deep until the flatbed got light, stalled, and floated off to the side. Swam out to a telephone pole and used a winch to pull the truck up - drove home without any issues after that.

 

Anyway, probably didn't get too much water in the transmission. Getting water in the differential and wheel bearings - that is a different story.

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Fish so this mechanic put a trans fluid in my car that is not even type T-IV fluid that I need. They put it in at 77,000 I have 93,000 on car now. They said they only yes WOLF HEAD at this shop. On the work order they called it Synthetic trans fluid. Would not give me name so I had to call them.

With them putting in wrong type of trans fluid for my car isn't that going to cause my transmission to fail.

 

Fish I have another question: same shop put TURBO POWER COOLANT in my car who is to say that is compatible.

Do you know if the TURBO POWER coolant they put in is right kind or compatible or is it also the wrong type.

Frank

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It says it is compatible, but it didn't say anything of being JWS 3309 compliant. It speaks of being JWS 3324 compliant (Toyota WS) - but that is NOT back-spec'd to previous ATF requirements. I'm also going by the spec sheet that I found online http://wolfshead.com/specsheets/universalsynthetic.pdf - if they can provide the spec sheet for their fluid, that would be better.

 

Wrong fluid will make the transaxle fail sooner. How soon, how much damage it will cause, depends on how close the fluid is to the spec fluid. Since you ran around a fair amount of time with that particular fluid in there - even a flush now may not return it to the pre-Wolf's head condition. Best thing to do now is to flush it, fill with Toyota Type T-IV or compatible - run the car until it fails. It it runs for 500K miles or 10 miles - I don't have any idea.

 

As for the coolant, depends on what type of Turbo Power Coolant. Assuming this is it (cheapest variant - green, purple, or red in color) http://www.recochem.com/us/media/uploads/downloads/TP_OEM_AFC_USA_Selection_Guide_0114.pdf

 

That is definitely not spec'd like the Toyota coolant. That uses a low amount of silicates as an additive package, borate for corrosion resistance. Toyota coolant does NOT have any silicates, borates, amines, nitrates = the chemistry is totally wrong.

 

If it one of the global import or extended life variant (yellow for global, orange for extended) - harder to say. No Silicates or Phosphates in those + HOAT tech, which is similar to Toyota coolant. But additive package is different. Toyota is an ethylene-glycol-based coolant that is non-silicate, non-borate, non-amine, and non-nitrate and has a surprising dose of phosphates + HOAT tech.

Edited by fishexpo101

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Fish

I am glad I got away from this mechanic. You know more than I do. They are using wrong fluids for cars

Based off of what you know WOLFS HEAD is not compatible with Toyota T-IV fluid and since I went 16,000 miles and still have it in I better get it out. You opinion is because of the wrong fluid used trans could fail earlier than normal.

They used TURBO POWER EXTENDED ORANGE. 5years/150,000 miles.

Do you think it is compatible with toyota coolant or not. Should I remove it immediately. Also do you think TURBO POWER IS GOING TO CAUSE coolant system problem. Earlier than normal.

Frank.

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If the fluid used is like one I found spec'd - then yes, it is not a compatible fluid. If it will kill the transaxle faster - only time will tell. But there is a reason why engineers spec a specific fluid - if you use the wrong type, can't expect the best performance from that component.

 

Turbo Power extended life (orange) - that stuff is OK. More like Dex-cool that Toyota red / Toyota pink - same with the transaxle fluid. Flush it out and replace with the appropriate fluid and distilled water. If it will cause problems - look at the drain water than comes out from the flushed cooling system - if there are any "chunks" in there - you're likely to have trouble down the road.

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Fish

It says it is compatible with toyota T-IV fluid but I agree it does not have # you are referring to. Even though it does not have # it says it is compatible what do you think.

I will call and ask for a spec sheet. Now what am I looking for to know if it is comparable with Toyota T-IV fluid.

Also the TRUBO POWER EXTENDED orange is ok in my 05 corolla

Frank

Edited by Bull6791

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Has to say both - if not, has to have the number. JWS 3309 is what says it is Toyota Type T-IV compatible. JWS 3309 is also a specification for other manufacturers - like Volvo, Ford, Chevy, etc. - it basically lays out what the viscosity, friction modifiers, oxidation, deposit control, etc should be to work well in that particular transaxle. Toyota Type T-IV just happens to be one of those products - but since it doesn't list JWS 3309 but it does list JWS 3324 (Toyota WS) - makes me highly skeptical that this is fully compatible.

 

As for the coolant, as mentioned, should be OK. Not ideal - but I don't see it turning to gel or similar in the short term. Personally, I would flush it out and refill with the right stuff. Why take a chance. But it should be OK until you are ready to flush it out anyways.

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^^^ That must have been something. I did something similar with a flatbed truck - just finished a custom paint job a project car and was bringing it back home when I tried to ford a freshly flooded road - didn't realize it was that deep until the flatbed got light, stalled, and floated off to the side. Swam out to a telephone pole and used a winch to pull the truck up - drove home without any issues after that.

 

Anyway, probably didn't get too much water in the transmission. Getting water in the differential and wheel bearings - that is a different story.

I never even thought to check the differential. My trans fluid looked like a strawberry milk shake. People were cheering and clapping as I drove up out of the water. August of 1987.

There was no forum to ask for advice . I was on my own. :( Your lucky Frank.

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I see it now - at the top, under Aisin Warner transaxles. If this is "the" oil they used at the shop - he should be alright. Specs are still off from Toyota Type T-IV, but considering how many transaxles this has to formulated for - not totally surprising.

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Fish

I will call company. Should I ask if it is also JWS 3309 compliant.

I thought Toyota t-IV and JWS 3309 were same thing. It says Toyota t-IV compatible. Why does it also have to say JWS 3309 compliant.

Why is AISIN Warner good for the shop.

Thanks Frank.

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