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rmanz

Injector Cleaning

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[No, the fuel filter wasn't changed. I believe the fuel filter on my '02 is inside the fuel tank. Is this something I can do myself as an amatuer?

 

Thanks

 

Not very easily - the filter is a two part deal - both parts are inside th tank. The larger debris filter is on the pickup itself and there is a fine filter attached to the pressure regulator. Generally they do not need to be changed, both are self cleaning in design to a certain extent. I was considering a change soon, given the mileage on my car, but will wait for better weather. Might wait until I upgrade the rear sways - since I will have to drop the tank anyways - give me a chance to see what is inside.

 

 

Did I read this right? Your fuel pressure regulator and main fuel filter are in the fuel tank?

Yup. Not the easiest - but not 100% PITA. Since they designed it to be inside the tank - the filters hold up a bit longer.

 

[No, the fuel filter wasn't changed. I believe the fuel filter on my '02 is inside the fuel tank. Is this something I can do myself as an amatuer?

 

Thanks

 

Not very easily - the filter is a two part deal - both parts are inside th tank. The larger debris filter is on the pickup itself and there is a fine filter attached to the pressure regulator. Generally they do not need to be changed, both are self cleaning in design to a certain extent. I was considering a change soon, given the mileage on my car, but will wait for better weather. Might wait until I upgrade the rear sways - since I will have to drop the tank anyways - give me a chance to see what is inside.

That is one extra reason why I like the 7th generation models. The fuel filter and pump is inside the tank, but is accessible from under the rear seat. Easy for remove/replace.

Dropping the tank isn't too difficult for you is it - just undo the two holding straps and lower it down, is that it??

That is pretty much it - sending unit, puel pump/regulator, two straps, some hoses, making sure the tank is empty as possible - don't have to completely remove it - just drop it down a hair to get the sways in and out.

Edited by fishexpo101

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trap

[No, the fuel filter wasn't changed. I believe the fuel filter on my '02 is inside the fuel tank. Is this something I can do myself as an amatuer?

 

Thanks

 

Not very easily - the filter is a two part deal - both parts are inside th tank. The larger debris filter is on the pickup itself and there is a fine filter attached to the pressure regulator. Generally they do not need to be changed, both are self cleaning in design to a certain extent. I was considering a change soon, given the mileage on my car, but will wait for better weather. Might wait until I upgrade the rear sways - since I will have to drop the tank anyways - give me a chance to see what is inside.

 

 

Did I read this right? Your fuel pressure regulator and main fuel filter are in the fuel tank?

Yup. Not the easiest - but not 100% PITA. Since they designed it to be inside the tank - the filters hold up a bit longer.

 

[No, the fuel filter wasn't changed. I believe the fuel filter on my '02 is inside the fuel tank. Is this something I can do myself as an amatuer?

 

Thanks

 

Not very easily - the filter is a two part deal - both parts are inside th tank. The larger debris filter is on the pickup itself and there is a fine filter attached to the pressure regulator. Generally they do not need to be changed, both are self cleaning in design to a certain extent. I was considering a change soon, given the mileage on my car, but will wait for better weather. Might wait until I upgrade the rear sways - since I will have to drop the tank anyways - give me a chance to see what is inside.

That is one extra reason why I like the 7th generation models. The fuel filter and pump is inside the tank, but is accessible from under the rear seat. Easy for remove/replace.

Dropping the tank isn't too difficult for you is it - just undo the two holding straps and lower it down, is that it??

That is pretty much it - sending unit, puel pump/regulator, two straps, some hoses, making sure the tank is empty as possible - don't have to completely remove it - just drop it down a hair to get the sways in and out.

Does that mean that it is not located at a position under the seat where they could have made an opening like the 7th generation Corollas for easy access? Maybe Toyota does not want owners to change their own fuel pump and filters? Dropping the tank is probably a little more complicated than removing the back seat.

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Does that mean that it is not located at a position under the seat where they could have made an opening like the 7th generation Corollas for easy access? Maybe Toyota does not want owners to change their own fuel pump and filters? Dropping the tank is probably a little more complicated than removing the back seat.

I wouldn't call under the seat and access via a little service cover - "easy access" :lol: But the 8th gen Corollas do have the same access panel under the rear seat. What I meant in the previous post is that both components are inside the tank - didn't mean that you have to drop the tank to get at them. I'll probably take a peek inside the tank, myself, and see what the filter and pickup sock look like after more than 130K miles of driving - since I was planning on swapping to aftermarket sways in the summer - would be a good excuse to have a look.

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Does that mean that it is not located at a position under the seat where they could have made an opening like the 7th generation Corollas for easy access? Maybe Toyota does not want owners to change their own fuel pump and filters? Dropping the tank is probably a little more complicated than removing the back seat.

I wouldn't call under the seat and access via a little service cover - "easy access" :lol: But the 8th gen Corollas do have the same access panel under the rear seat. What I meant in the previous post is that both components are inside the tank - didn't mean that you have to drop the tank to get at them. I'll probably take a peek inside the tank, myself, and see what the filter and pickup sock look like after more than 130K miles of driving - since I was planning on swapping to aftermarket sways in the summer - would be a good excuse to have a look.

For my car under the rear seat is pretty easy access. I just pop up the front part of the rear seat and pull it out. The hard part is the seat belts. The fuel pump assembly is bolted down with 8 - 8MM screws/bolts and there are the two fuel lines. It seemed fairly easy for me to change it when I needed to. I didn't have to get under the car at all, or drop the tank.

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I guess I'm going to have to take a look at our fuel system. Usually the filter is before the fuel rail and the FPR is after the fuel rail before the return line back to the tank.

 

Toyota is doing things differently for sure. Not wrong perhaps, but really different. I have never seen a main fuel filter and FPR in the tank before in any car.

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Here's a photo of the pump and related components:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...01/fuelpump.jpg

 

Shows the location of the fuel filter - inside the fuel pump assembly. Part of the returnless fuel system (fuel doesn't go to the fuel log, controlled by a FPR, and the excess then returned back to the tank). Also why the newer systems make it more difficult for people to modify the engine to run forced induction - though there are workarounds that are doing very well.

 

All in the name of emissions - a returnless system does not circulate the fuel constantly through the lines, only supplies enough fuel for the engine's demands. Probably also the source of the hard start/hot start issue with newer Corollas - I've noticed the hard to start condition on the Corollas that started using the more stringent emission standard and the DBW (drive by wire) systems.

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Here's a photo of the pump and related components:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...01/fuelpump.jpg

 

Shows the location of the fuel filter - inside the fuel pump assembly. Part of the returnless fuel system (fuel doesn't go to the fuel log, controlled by a FPR, and the excess then returned back to the tank). Also why the newer systems make it more difficult for people to modify the engine to run forced induction - though there are workarounds that are doing very well.

 

All in the name of emissions - a returnless system does not circulate the fuel constantly through the lines, only supplies enough fuel for the engine's demands. Probably also the source of the hard start/hot start issue with newer Corollas - I've noticed the hard to start condition on the Corollas that started using the more stringent emission standard and the DBW (drive by wire) systems.

 

I think I know about the hot start you are talking about. I've noticed that it cranked over a little longer after a short park. That is nothing. My last new car (non toyota) had a really really bad start up problem. That POS could take 5 seconds or longer of cranking over and doing nothing. I acually had to stop and try again sometimes. Being on a very very small hill (a slanted driveway) seemed to make it worse :blink:

 

I'm not sure how a returnless system would help fuel economy tho. The whole point of a returned line was to return any unused fuel. If the injectors do some how get too much fuel, then what? If the FPR ever failed and sent too much fuel, the engine could hydrolock. I would think you would get a butt load of warning signs before this acually happend, but some people just keep drving as long as the wheels still turn.

 

You've seen them. The jerk who drive down the road with a blown head gasket spewing clouds of black smoke. I always wonder how often they need to add oil. I'd think every 20 miles or something.

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Hopefully the FPR will not fail - the returnless system tries to keep a constant fuel pressure in the lines. The systems capacity is enough to keep up with heavy demand (ex. hard acceleration) and flexible enough to absorb extra fuel when you don't need it (ex. jump off the gas suddenly).

 

I've tried leaving the ignition key in the ON position for a few seconds to help with the hard start - no dice. The system will not power the fuel pump until the key is moved to the START position, ie. only comes on after you start cranking it. All my other cars come on when you turn the key - Hondas, old SL300 (regardless how long it was stored - would start on the first crank).

 

I don't notice this as much on the 2002 Corolla - but happens more often than not on the 2003 Matrix XRS.

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Hopefully the FPR will not fail - the returnless system tries to keep a constant fuel pressure in the lines. The systems capacity is enough to keep up with heavy demand (ex. hard acceleration) and flexible enough to absorb extra fuel when you don't need it (ex. jump off the gas suddenly).

 

I've tried leaving the ignition key in the ON position for a few seconds to help with the hard start - no dice. The system will not power the fuel pump until the key is moved to the START position, ie. only comes on after you start cranking it. All my other cars come on when you turn the key - Hondas, old SL300 (regardless how long it was stored - would start on the first crank).

 

I don't notice this as much on the 2002 Corolla - but happens more often than not on the 2003 Matrix XRS.

 

The more I think about this, the more I am thinking that the fuel injectors must be different. They must have some sort of fuel pressure control on the injector too for this to work. I have never heard of a returnless fuel line for a fuel injected car before. Not that I don't trust you, but I gotta go look for myself :)

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The more I think about this, the more I am thinking that the fuel injectors must be different. They must have some sort of fuel pressure control on the injector too for this to work. I have never heard of a returnless fuel line for a fuel injected car before. Not that I don't trust you, but I gotta go look for myself :)

No problem :D I wasn't up to speed on these until I wanted to check the fuel pressure (no valve anymore or visible FPR). "Returnless" system weren't used before because they had a tendancy to introduce air bubbles and computer control was not up to speed.

 

I should add that "returnless" is kind of a misnomer - fuel is still "returned" to the tank, but it makes a much shorter trip. Unused fuel that passes the fuel pressure regulator goes back into the tank (now in the tank so the trip is very short indeed).

 

The FPR doesn't have the vacuum connection to the engine that most are familar with - now everything is ECM controlled. FPR maintains contant line pressure - with the changing volume needs being handled by the variable control of the fuel pump and varying the injector duration and pulse width. Newer "returnless" system actually eliminate the FPR with the ECM modifying the pulse to the power supply for the pump.

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Well, after looking under the hood, the car does have a line that runs back right along with the main fuel line. I googled returnless fuel injection and found some links on Toyota's. I'm guessing that the return line is for vapors or something, but the car does acually have a 2nd line that runs right along the main line.

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Yup - that line is part of the EVAP system to pull vapors from the charcoal canister infront of the tank (1998+ Corollas). Also a major source of headaches if you have any EVAP related problems like I had in the past:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...APlocations.jpg

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Just the pieces that I needed when my car had some issues - most I got from the dealership (tech emailed me PDF copies) for free. 10x better than any Haynes/Chiltons manual. There might be some copies floating around the net - though most of the ones I saw are for 2004 Corolla - still you could use most of the information there for 8th gen Corollas.

 

Once I get my site back up - I will post links here for people to use. Need to put a clamp on the bandwidth though, lots of sites were leeching off the site with hotlinking - kind of pissed off my ISP, so I took it down.

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