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allaroc

Crypticlineage Car?

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I am getting convinced that I should get a second opinion. But before I give another mechanic a shot, I think I am going to take your advice and do a compression test myself. Thanks for the Harborfrieght info, they have a store in my area and the tester is in stock (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92697). Tomservo: Is this the one you were talking about?

 

Now, while I am at it, should I go ahead and replace spark plugs too if they are bad? If so, what kind spark plugs do you guys recommend? I noticed some Bosch ones for 1ZZ-FE at advance auto, which ones are the correct ones? No gap or gap ones? Any suggestions appreciated.

 

I also need to buy wrenches to open engine plastic cover and spark plugs. Is there a standard set of wrenches that I could get for general "under the hood" maintenance? Can you guys recommend some?

 

You may find this link helpful for your car: "www.autozone.com/home".

Look for the vehicle repair guides on the lower right side of the home page. Find the manual for your year and model and start exploring. They have a good explanation about compression tests and their usefulness.

I have no connection to auto zone other than as a customer but I have found this site very useful. You can find parts and prices for your car too. Good luck.

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The manuals list recommended tools that you should get if you want to do your own routine maintenance, such as tune-ups and oil changes. I recommend at least the basics.

Edited by Bikeman982

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I don't understand the bashing of "thicker" oils. I can't see how quality heavy duty 15W40 oil like rotella or delo can damage any engine unless we are talking arctic conditions. On the other hand, it can help clean the mess.

Fish, can you elaborate on the cases of import cars damaged by thicker oils?

 

Also, the tomservo post confirms my suspicion that these days rings fail mostly due to coked oil and not due to mechanical failure. This was actually common in saturns. Good cleaning (autoRX) and using havy duty engine oils was very effective on those affected saturns.

 

It would be insane not to try it in criptic's car. I offered that suggestion to criptic long time ago. Not sure why he ignores that.

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I don't understand the bashing of "thicker" oils. I can't see how quality heavy duty 15W40 oil like rotella or delo can damage any engine unless we are talking arctic conditions. On the other hand, it can help clean the mess.

Fish, can you elaborate on the cases of import cars damaged by thicker oils?

 

Also, the tomservo post confirms my suspicion that these days rings fail mostly due to coked oil and not due to mechanical failure. This was actually common in saturns. Good cleaning (autoRX) and using havy duty engine oils was very effective on those affected saturns.

 

It would be insane not to try it in criptic's car. I offered that suggestion to criptic long time ago. Not sure why he ignores that.

I agreed with changing to a thicker oil under the premise that thicker oil is slower to leak, thereby lasting longer and requiring less frequent refill or top-off.

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I don't understand the bashing of "thicker" oils. I can't see how quality heavy duty 15W40 oil like rotella or delo can damage any engine unless we are talking arctic conditions. On the other hand, it can help clean the mess.

Fish, can you elaborate on the cases of import cars damaged by thicker oils?

 

Also, the tomservo post confirms my suspicion that these days rings fail mostly due to coked oil and not due to mechanical failure. This was actually common in saturns. Good cleaning (autoRX) and using havy duty engine oils was very effective on those affected saturns.

 

It would be insane not to try it in criptic's car. I offered that suggestion to criptic long time ago. Not sure why he ignores that.

Not really a bashing, but one that should not be taken lightly with any engine. Everyone knows that motor oil generally has much hgiher viscosity (thicker) at colder temperatures and lower viscosity (thinner) at high temps. One way to help extend the useful range are changing the basestocks (conventional vs synthetic) and adding viscosity modifiers (pour point depressants at low temps to help lower viscosity and mix of polymer chains to resist thinning at high temps).

 

I have two Honda motors (B16A and B18C5) that had the bearings wiped and significant damage to the upper valvetrain from running heavyweight oils (20W50 Castrol on the 1.6L and 15W50 Pennzoil on the 1.8L). Two other engines were prepped very similarly and run with plain conventional 5W30 and 10W30 with no problems - one switched to 5W30 synthetics and shows no worse for wear (fuel economy changes or oil consumption issues).

 

Problem comes in with how the motor oil gets circulated through the engine. Lower viscosity oils tend to have lower overall oil pressures, especially at startup but have more total volume pumped throughout the various oil galleries and upper valvetrain. Heavier oils tend to resist higher RPM oil consumption and provide reasonably high oil pressures at lower volumes. This low volume of oil is problematic for engines that generally have tighter tolerances and need oil in specific areas. Higher viscosity oils also tend to run much hotter than lower viscosity in conventional oil pumps - oil does expand slighly when hot and the oil pumps works pretty hard pumping it around - hence the higher oil pressures, and lower volume.

 

This assumes that you are comparing apples to apples - just differences in viscosity. Throw in synthetics and HD/C service API motor oils and it changes a bit. Synthetics that are slightly higher in weight run comparably with some lower weight conventional motor oils due to their higher quality makeup. C serive motor oils (diesel motor oils) are very good at protecting the engine from certain damage (soot, metal to metal wear, acids, combustion byproducts, etc.) due to their superior additive package and highly dispersant characteristics. But that same additive package has also been shown to plate components like O2 sensors. But replacing an O2 sensor is cheap compared to how much that type of oil can clean a neglected engine.

 

Best rule of thumb - doesn't really matter what you put in as long as you change it. Don't go too far out of grade to stem an oil consumption issue - try sticking close to the same grade but try an oil with better detergency or additive package to help loosen up stuck rings and/or condition valve stem seals. You may help burn less oil with a 15 or 20 weight oil, but may seriously shorten the life of your oil pump and valvetrain. Older engines or engines with lots of miles - may benefit from a slighly heavier oil (quiets noise and controls oil loss) - since their tolerances have opened up over time.

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So I am almost ready to do the compression test now. I finally bought a tester gauge. I dont however have wrench to unscrew spark plug. Is there a special wrench for this purpose? I just want to go ahead and buy a set of wrenches that would be useful for general maintenance under the hood. Any recommendations about wrench socket sizes and stuff?

 

Also, my owner's manual suggests using either DENSO SK16R11 or NGK IFR5A11 kind of spark plugs. Now I dont know whether these are brand names or types of plugs that would be available under all brand names?

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So I am almost ready to do the compression test now. I finally bought a tester gauge. I dont however have wrench to unscrew spark plug. Is there a special wrench for this purpose? I just want to go ahead and buy a set of wrenches that would be useful for general maintenance under the hood. Any recommendations about wrench socket sizes and stuff?

 

Also, my owner's manual suggests using either DENSO SK16R11 or NGK IFR5A11 kind of spark plugs. Now I dont know whether these are brand names or types of plugs that would be available under all brand names?

First, there is a special socket that is used to remove the spark plugs. It has a piece of rubber inside it that grips the top of the spark plugs so that they can be pulled out.

Second, I recommend Craftsman tools, since they are guaranteed for life and Sears gives free replacements. Other tools may be good, but unless they have free replacements I would not recommend them. As far as wrenches - get a good set of metric ones. I have all size metric sockets, ratchets, extensions, and open-end wrenches. All sizes from 8 MM to 22 MM. Occassionally you will need another size. Definitely get screwdrivers - both regular (flat) and Phillips types. You will need pliers, needle-nose and regular, and vice-grips are also good. A set of Allen wrenches are also a good addition. There are others, but your manual should have them.

 

Denso and NGK are the brands of the spark plugs and the other numbers and letters are the sizes. I would check your manual and see which ones are supposed to be for your engine and use those or their equivalent. If those are from your owner's manual, then they will work.

Edited by Bikeman982

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I don't understand the bashing of "thicker" oils. I can't see how quality heavy duty 15W40 oil like rotella or delo can damage any engine unless we are talking arctic conditions. On the other hand, it can help clean the mess.

Fish, can you elaborate on the cases of import cars damaged by thicker oils?

 

Also, the tomservo post confirms my suspicion that these days rings fail mostly due to coked oil and not due to mechanical failure. This was actually common in saturns. Good cleaning (autoRX) and using havy duty engine oils was very effective on those affected saturns.

 

It would be insane not to try it in criptic's car. I offered that suggestion to criptic long time ago. Not sure why he ignores that.

 

Not really bashing - but these engines are already known to have an oil sludge problem, and changing to a different oil could cause as many problems down the line as it temporarily might 'solve'. Also, you have to consider that it is damn hard to find an oil pump for the 1ZZ VVT engines - it's a dealer part, and most of them don't even stock it. I think my dealers (chevy and toyota) quoted me around $450 for an oil pump.

 

If it's detergents you want, go with some seafoam or autorx. If he's burning as much oil as I was, like I said you'd have to replace all thr oil with brake cleaner to even hope to clean it out.

 

Cryptic: Sorry to take so long, that is the same one I have (mine didn't come with the brass adaptors). DON'T use the little chrome plated adaptor thingy. when you go to unscrew it from the head, it'll unscrew from the hose end (which is the same size) and it'll get stuck down there.

 

I'd suggest a "mechanic's" set of tools from Sears or possibly advance (their tools seem fairly solid, lifetime warranty, cheap). Get a set with lots of metric, should cost about $90-120 at Sears. You want wrenches from 10mm-19mm - there may be bigger stuff on there, but I haven't run into anything larger than 19mm when I did my rings. Get a set with deep sockets and shallow sockets, preferably with 6 point and 12 point. If you want to take the head off you'll need "double hex" sockets or adaptors. I can't describe them other than it looks like a huge torx tip.

 

If you go into harbor freight, look around, they've got tons of great stuff. They have torque wrenches on the dirt cheap. Their tools are the same as many "store" brands. I used one of their $10 1/2" torque wrenches to do my engine, and not only is it the same wrench Ace sells for $50, I had no problems with it over torqueing or not "clicking". I wouldn't trust it to last me if I was using it every day, but for $10 I can replace it every time I ever work on an engine ;p

 

last but not least... not sure if this is against the rules but I found this page extremely useful:

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4332

 

one thing it does not mention is that you need to have wide open throttle during a compression test... take all the plugs out also (you want the highest RPM possible)

Edited by tomservo

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Oil sludge can definitely affect an engine and the best thing you can do is to try and keep the oil changed so that it makes less of the sludge.

I have checked out Harbor Freight and they do have lots of things to buy. I don't know about some of the basic tools, though. They are not name brand and don't come with any kind of warranty. They are not as expensive as Craftsman, for example and may not hold up. That is just my opinion.

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Getting Ready for Compression Testing

 

Here is the procedure that I am going to follow:

  1. Take the car for a good drive to charge the battery fully.
  2. Pull the multiport injection fuse. Where is this fuse located? I have posted a fusebox picture on my website (www.crypticlineage.net, follow the corolland.com link there)
  3. Unplug the coil connector. What end of coil connector is to be disconnected? I am assuming both ends, one that is attached to the car and other attached to the spark plug. Does it mean there are four coils?
  4. Remove all four plugs and note their respective cylinder numbers and their overall condition.
  5. Screw the compression gauge in the cylinder 1 hole.
  6. Have someone get behind the wheel, have them push the gas pedal to the floor (full throttle).
  7. Have them turn the ignition to the ON Position for 10 seconds or 4 complete revolutions of the engine (until the needle on compression gauge stops jumping) whichever comes earlier. Note down the reading on the gauge.
  8. Repeat this procedure on every cylinder
  9. Compare each cylinder's compression numbers to the factory specs.
  10. If one or more cylinders are low on compression, pour a capfull of motor oil in that cylinder and repeat the compression test. Note if reading goes up in that cylinder. If it does that would mean rings are worn.
  11. If there is no improved reading in the cylinder with low compression after the wet test, have a mechanic do a leakdown test to figure out where exactly the compression is leaking from.
  12. Have the person in drivers seat release the throttle.
  13. Reinsert / replace all spark plugs in their respective cylinders, connect the coil and coil connector.
  14. Replace the multiport injection fuse

Please advice if there is something I have missed or dont need.

 

While at this, I also want to check out my PCV valve. Just to make sure that I know which one is PCV valve, can you please check the picture out on www.crypticlineage.net (follow link under corolland.com stuff).

Edited by crypticlineage

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Getting Ready for Compression Testing

 

Here is the procedure that I am going to follow:

  1. Take the car for a good drive to charge the battery fully.
     
  2. Pull the multiport injection fuse. Where is this fuse located? I have posted a fusebox picture on my website (www.crypticlineage.net, follow the corolland.com link there)
     
  3. Unplug the coil connector. What end of coil connector is to be disconnected? I am assuming both ends, one that is attached to the car and other attached to the spark plug. Does it mean there are four coils?
     
  4. Remove all four plugs and note their respective cylinder numbers and their overall condition.
     
  5. Screw the compression gauge in the cylinder 1 hole.
     
  6. Have someone get behind the wheel, have them push the gas pedal to the floor (full throttle).
     
  7. Have them turn the ignition to the ON Position for 10 seconds or 4 complete revolutions of the engine (until the needle on compression gauge stops jumping) whichever comes earlier. Note down the reading on the gauge.
     
  8. Repeat this procedure on every cylinder
     
  9. Compare each cylinder's compression numbers to the factory specs.
     
  10. If one or more cylinders are low on compression, pour a capfull of motor oil in that cylinder and repeat the compression test. Note if reading goes up in that cylinder. If it does that would mean rings are worn.
     
  11. If there is no improved reading in the cylinder with low compression after the wet test, have a mechanic do a leakdown test to figure out where exactly the compression is leaking from.
     
  12. Have the person in drivers seat release the throttle.
     
  13. Reinsert / replace all spark plugs in their respective cylinders, connect the coil and coil connector.
     
  14. Replace the multiport injection fuse

Please advice if there is something I have missed or dont need.

 

While at this, I also want to check out my PCV valve. Just to make sure that I know which one is PCV valve, can you please check the picture out on www.crypticlineage.net (follow link under corolland.com stuff).

 

Sounds good to me, although I don't think pressing on the gas pedal makes any difference, or would have any negative effects if it was not depressed.

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I thought pressing gas pedal was another way of saying open throttle fully which is a requirement for doing compression test. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

A compression check tests the amount of air that is forced into a small space as your piston pushes against it. The air and fuel mix normally explodes as your spark plug ignites, causing a contained explosion which forces the piston back down. Without your engine running, there is no need for the fuel and pressing on the gas pedal will not do anything. The air will still be compressed and that is what you are checking with the compression test equipment.

Edited by Bikeman982

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I see. Thanks for clarifying. Now that leaves me with one question:

 

What does it mean to open the throttle fully? Most engine compression testing articles emphasize on it.

 

On older cars there used to be carburators that had throttles that had a butterfly valve for the air intakes that had to be manually opened in order for the air supply to get to the carburators. Todays cars rely on vacuum which is automatic when your engine is cranked over.

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