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Guest rnayar

Corolla Sludge

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Guest Paul Cherubini

Ellis, Rahul admitted NEVER checking the oil level inbetween oil changes. Any car owner who fails to check the oil level regularly risks catastrophic engine failure. Likewise, any car owner who fails to check the tire pressure regularly runs the risk of having a violent blow out, losing control of the car and dying in a wreck.

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Guest chrisxxx39

some food for thought.

 

I came accross this discussion bd. take a look

 

http://pub52.ezboard.com/fgrassrootsmotors...picID=153.topic

 

some guys report that they have hardly changed the oil and their engine is still in pristine condition. I dont know the reason behind this, maybe the models in question are old and have an archaic design that doesnt require as many oil changes.

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You know what? I check my oil regularly, occasionally add some, but if someone were to ask me how much I added 15,000 miles ago between oil changes I could not tell them a thing. So I guess if you are going to come to these forums and be given the riot act or go to Toyota and told no warranty coverage because we don't think you really checked your oil, then a log book is a little extra insurance. I agree it is ridiculous and you shouldn't have to do it, but look what happened to Raul.

Ellis,

 

You are right, but we don't remember because nothing was out of the ordinary. I guarantee you, if your noticed the consumption going up, you would notice it.

 

I really didn't expect an exact answer, but this is the kind of information you need to notice to share with your service advisor.

 

Get it in writing on your service ticket, and save those service tickets.

 

BTW, the newly Turbocharged :) SVT Contour didn't use any oil I could tell over the 1500 miles from Phoenix back home.

 

TB

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Guest autoresearcher

So, tell me, Paul, what makes this Corolla consume oil so rapidly that it suffer "oil starvation?" And, is this the first Corolla owner to tell such a tale? No, he is not. There have been others on this very board, as a matter of fact.

 

A Toyota Corolla that cannot make it between oil changes *better than recommended* without suffering major oil loss? A Corolla whose oil level got so low that the oil indicator light did *not* illuminate? Tboner claims the information says that there was only 1/2 a quart left in the vehicle, right? If so, *why* was the light *malfunctioning*? It did not come on, remember?

 

So, perhaps what we have here is a vehicle that has an OBD problem? Let me guess....an owner should disregard the expectation that these lights will come on to warn of impending doom? With all the high technology available, the owner needs to do *all* the diagnostics by hand?

 

Get real. This vehicle was *not* performing as it should.

 

Autoresearcher

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Guest Veritas

Autoresearcher (Charlene Blake), you have already been made aware that the car didn't consume oil in a short period, rather, it went down that amount between oil changes. Oil change intervals were reportedly within limits, but were up in the 5 and 6000 mile range on average, a rather lengthy period by most standards

So why are you suggesting it disappeared in a short period?

Furthermore, you have already been made aware that only low oil pressure, not low oil level, would cause the oil light to illuminate. The oil light senses only oil pressure, and as long as there was even a little oil left in the system, oil pressure would likely be present.

So why are you telling us the oil light was defective?

You are also aware that the owner of this car NEVER checked his oil, and NEVER bothered to check anything between visits to the service for routine oil changes.

So why are you suggesting the owner bears no responsibility in the matter?

This person's engine self destructed because oil was allowed to get down to one half a quart.

The engine literally cooked itself to death.

IMO,the sludge issue has nothing to do with this man's problem, because any sludge present in the engine would come from it being overheated repeatedly as the owner never checked oil and likely ran the engine low on oil consistently.

I admit this diagnosis may be speculative, no less speculative however, than your insistence that "something was wrong with this engine".

What I cannot understand is why you have distorted certain facts you already knew about.

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So, tell me, Paul, what makes this Corolla consume oil so rapidly that it suffer "oil starvation?" And, is this the first Corolla owner to tell such a tale? No, he is not. There have been others on this very board, as a matter of fact.

 

A Toyota Corolla that cannot make it between oil changes *better than recommended* without suffering major oil loss? A Corolla whose oil level got so low that the oil indicator light did *not* illuminate? Tboner claims the information says that there was only 1/2 a quart left in the vehicle, right? If so, *why* was the light *malfunctioning*? It did not come on, remember?

 

So, perhaps what we have here is a vehicle that has an OBD problem? Let me guess....an owner should disregard the expectation that these lights will come on to warn of impending doom? With all the high technology available, the owner needs to do *all* the diagnostics by hand?

 

Get real. This vehicle was *not* performing as it should.

 

Autoresearcher

I would say it again, but I don't think you read it the first dozen or so times it has been said. The oil light on most cars is an oil pressure warning

light. It does not come on for a low oil level. The oil pressure must drop to a threshold that is lethal for the engine.

 

There are a few, but not many, cars that do have oil level monitors.

 

However, for most cars, the oil lamp going on at times other than the bulb test at vehicle start is the automotive equal of giving the dying

their last rites.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, so I'm happy to read an actual page from the 1998 Corolla owners manual that shows the car has an oil level warning

lamp and not just a generic oil pressure warning lamp.

 

Most oil pressure warning lamps are nothing more than a pressure sensitive switch, mounted in the engine block or cylinder head that provides a path

to ground if the pressure drops enough to no longer push the switch against spring. If the pressure is not sufficient to overcome the spring, the switch provides a path to ground. The light should always have a +12V and the pressure switch completes the circuit.

 

Some reasons why the light would not illuminate if the oil pressure dropped below the threshold.

 

1. Bulb burnt out

2. Fuse 12V source of bulb power burnt out

3. Faulty switch

4. Faulty wiring

 

There are plenty of reasons why an oil pressure light doesn't illuminate on the dash board.

 

However, I cannot really think of a good reason to drive to the dealership with only 1/2 quart of oil in my crankcase.

Even if I knew I was getting my oil changed, I'd put enough oil in there to get wll above the add, but not overfill the crankcase.

 

TB

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Guest Cruisin

Could this excessive (?) consumption of oil in Toyotas be what is contributing to all the sludge problems? People are experiencing sludge when oil changes per manual are followed. But according to some consumption rates, you could lose more than the oil capacity in the car in this time and you would run dry. Why do these cars use so much oil? I had no consumption between oil changes on my Caravan but my Sienna consumes it like a camel.

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Could this excessive (?) consumption of oil in Toyotas be what is contributing to all the sludge problems? People are experiencing sludge when oil changes per manual are followed. But according to some consumption rates, you could lose more than the oil capacity in the car in this time and you would run dry. Why do these cars use so much oil? I had no consumption between oil changes on my Caravan but my Sienna consumes it like a camel.

Low oil level means the oil remaining must work much harder. Like I've said many times before, oil is the ONLY coolant for many parts such as crankshaft and connecting rod bearings. If the oil gets too hot, it does not perform as designed.

 

If the oil level gets too low, the same heat that is designed to be carried away by the minimum oil level now has to be carried by a smaller volume of oil, that remaining oil will be broken down much faster. Since many conventional oils contain pariffins and asphalt like substances, combine those with other natural combustion byproduct contaminants and you are likely to form sludge. However, this is not a Toyota only phenomenon, this is basically a function of how motor oil and contaminates can combine at certain temperature levels.

 

And that is why I'd like to hear more about WHAT oils are used, both weights and brands to see if there is a positive corrolation between sludge and oils used. Just like some claim certain engines may be more prone to sludging, you can make a logical case that certain oils are more likely than others to sludge. Wouldn't it be great to get those details as well, rather than just the constant drum beat that the only fault lies with Toyota?

 

For instance, are there any documented sludge cases with owners that use a group IV PAO synthetic oil such as Mobil 1? How about group III hydrocracked "synthetics" (there is a religious war about if these are really synthetics) such as Castrol Syntec.

 

There is some amount of complaining about 1 quart every 1000 miles, but this seems to be a common allowable threshold, as I've seen the same figure quoted for GM and VW vehicles to name a few.

 

In a Corolla, ONE QUART is between 1/3 and 1/4 of the total crankcase volume. (My 94 Geo Prizm with the Toyota 4A-FE engine has an oil volume of 3L or about 3.2quarts with a filter change. So a quart is about 1/3rd of the total oil volume.

 

Thus my preaching for frequent checking of oil level.

 

It can only help you to check your oil and keep it at the max fill level given.

 

However, in my small sample space, I don't see my Toyota engine, with almost 113K miles on it now, consuming large quantities of oil. On the conventional Mobil Drive clean 10W30 that was in my car from 106K to 110K, it used about 8 oz of oil in that period.

 

I changed it to Mobil 1 10W30 (a group IV PAO based synthetic oil) and my consumption seems similar, maybe a bit less at about 4oz of consumption in 3000 (and ~6 weeks) of driving. (I've had some vacation, and a week of commuting by train to a downtown customer site, so my normal 600-700 miles/week is not evident in this interval.)

 

I plan to get my oil analyzed in the next couple of weeks to see if 7500-8500 mile intervals are safe for this engine, oil and my driving habits. I would like to do oil changes every 4 months or about every 7500-8000 miles. (Basically so I don't have to change oil in the very cold winter months.)

 

But if the oil analysis doesn't support it, I'll just put on an extra layer of clothes and change my oil in the cold of January if I need too ;)

 

TB

Edited by tboner

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Never had any problems with oil consumption yet in my 2000 LE. Seems to me like regular maintenance and and checks on fluid levels will keep you going. The only debate in my mind is genuine toyota parts vs. aftermarkets.

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Again, back to root cause...I want to know why it ran low to start with. To me, that's the original defect.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

 

Regular Joe

Its' highly likely that there was a leak at the oil filter or drain plug from over or under tightening. Also what tiem of year did this occur? Sometiems oil comsumption greatly increase in the wonter from excessive idling and moisture accumulating i nthe oil from short trips...then you get on the freeay and the moisture is burnt out and the oil level can drop dramatically.

 

I always change the oil myself, I have little faith in dealships that typically pay a low level mechanic $9/hour or less to perform simple yet critical maintenance.

 

 

I've had a '91 Tercel with 102k miles, a Honda CBR600F4i motorcycle, and now a 2003 Cororlla. In a combined 200k miels of driivng, I've never needed to add a drop of oil ot either one. My typical oil change is at 4k miles with my new Corolla at 6-7k miles (mostly freeway driving). I also use fully synthetic oil.

 

 

Was the enigne on you Corolla broken in "properly". The worst things you can do, baby the hell out of it, take it on long freeway trips (it needs mustliple heat cycles) or drive at a constant speed....both during the first 500 miles. after tha tit doesn't matter much anymore. ALthough I will note, I too ka good 5000 miels for my new Corolla to loosen up and start getting good mileage.

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Guest Clifford

Well, I guess I should have read this thread before I posted about the oil consumption in my wife's 98... It's interesting that it started so suddenly though.

For five years nothing, and then a quart every thousand miles.

She may not like it, but I will keep refilling it for as long as necessary before I buy her another car! I have a Tundra to pay for now....

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