Tornado Vortex?

twinky64

New member
What do you guys think about it? Some mechanic school teacher didn't believe in it and almost told a student that it wouldn't work. Later, he dyno'd it and it jumped in hp. He took it on his own car, first without it @200hp, and second time with it installed @210hp. The two tests were one right after the other. He also said that the results were the same for every car he tested that their students brought in.

My question is, how does it work if the "swirlling" air is hitting an almost closed air dampener? I can think that the hp would increase at WOT, however, the spinning air hitting the air dampener would cause it to stop swirlling right?

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
10HP!? I'd like to see those dynos on that. They've done similar testing at a local dyno and speed shops here in NoVA - result are always a loss of power or no change at all.

As for swirling air hitting a closed throttle plate - air will still get through, just the closed throttle plate by itself will generate a huge amount of swirl at idle (that is what it is designed to do). As for power gains at WOT and higher RPMs - probably not. At off idle - possibly - because impeding (to an extent) the flow of air into the intake will help generate more low end torque. The effect is similar to longer tuned intake runners - good low end numbers by sacrificing high end numbers.

 

Bitter

New member
fish, you forgot about the intake plenum, runners, and valves. all of those will further dirupt the airflow and kill any swirl.

the best way to get air to swirl in the combustion chamber is with piston and combustion chamber design changes, anything else is bull. simple fluid common sense tells me that a set of blades at an angle will not cause air to spin, they will only create a high and a low side on the front and rear of the blade respectivly. there may be some vortex and swirls off the trailing edge of the blade, but thats it and those will stay around the blades.

tell that teacher that we all want to see those dyno charts, and only 2 dyno runs is pretty weak. theres alot of variables such as engine temp, humidity, ambient temp, ect that can make a 10hp difference. if his engine wasnt all the way heated up on the 1st run and then was all the way hot on the 2nd run that right there could be 10hp.

edit, did his dyno plot look like this?

http://www.streetcarforums.com/attachment....p;postid=862302

 

Bikeman982

Bikeman982
fish, you forgot about the intake plenum, runners, and valves. all of those will further dirupt the airflow and kill any swirl.
the best way to get air to swirl in the combustion chamber is with piston and combustion chamber design changes, anything else is bull. simple fluid common sense tells me that a set of blades at an angle will not cause air to spin, they will only create a high and a low side on the front and rear of the blade respectivly. there may be some vortex and swirls off the trailing edge of the blade, but thats it and those will stay around the blades.

tell that teacher that we all want to see those dyno charts, and only 2 dyno runs is pretty weak. theres alot of variables such as engine temp, humidity, ambient temp, ect that can make a 10hp difference. if his engine wasnt all the way heated up on the 1st run and then was all the way hot on the 2nd run that right there could be 10hp.

edit, did his dyno plot look like this?

http://www.streetcarforums.com/attachment....p;postid=862302
Is that really a dyno reading??

I thought it resembled something else.

 

riker1384

New member
You'd think, with all the money that goes into power improvements and especially fuel economy, that if someone made such a simple device that could make improvments of several percent that it would be in every single new car and the inventor would be a billionaire. He wouldn't have to advertise on late-night TV, he would present it to the big car companies and they'd test it and take it in a heartbeat.

 

Bikeman982

Bikeman982
You'd think, with all the money that goes into power improvements and especially fuel economy, that if someone made such a simple device that could make improvments of several percent that it would be in every single new car and the inventor would be a billionaire. He wouldn't have to advertise on late-night TV, he would present it to the big car companies and they'd test it and take it in a heartbeat.
It could be just a fallacy, but big car companies as well as the oil (fuel) companies are rumored to buy out (anybody) and anything that significantly adds to the fuel economy of cars (to eliminate any competition).

I don't know if that is true, because hybrids got into the market.

 
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DarkNinja75

New member
Hybrids have been in existence for about 20 years; major car companies bought up the patents when they first came out and just sat on them. However, with gas prices rising, hybrids are now becoming marketable. Think about it; who needs a hybrid when gas is $1.10 a gallon? But now that it's nearly $3, everyone wants one.

But on the vortex note: http://www.corolla-racing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6163

 

Bikeman982

Bikeman982
I saw them on e-Bay but ignored them becuase I am not sure I needed one. I don't know if they are worth the price and especially if they don't work. If they do work, then I might consider getting one.

 
twinky64:

Hey good post topic
. I used to have one for a few years on my 93 Mercury Tracer (~Ford Escort), and as much as I wanted it to do something awesome, or even just significant, I can’t really say that it did. Luckily I got it off e-bay cheaply, so I wasn’t really ripped off.

Also, does that story originate from mechanic teacher you know, or is it a friend of a friend story?

Well, there’s my 2 cents…

 

twinky64

New member
twinky64:Hey good post topic
. I used to have one for a few years on my 93 Mercury Tracer (~Ford Escort), and as much as I wanted it to do something awesome, or even just significant, I can’t really say that it did. Luckily I got it off e-bay cheaply, so I wasn’t really ripped off.

Also, does that story originate from mechanic teacher you know, or is it a friend of a friend story?

Well, there’s my 2 cents…
No, that mechanic teacher was in the commercial at some 2yr trade school. Well...I'm so young (20yrs) that I'll believe alot as long as it makes some type of mechanical sense. I'm currently majoring in mechanical engineering at CSUFullerton. Perhaps as I dig deeper into my major, I wont be so easily swayed.


 
No, that mechanic teacher was in the commercial at some 2yr trade school. Well...I'm so young (20yrs) that I'll believe alot as long as it makes some type of mechanical sense. I'm currently majoring in mechanical engineering at CSUFullerton. Perhaps as I dig deeper into my major, I wont be so easily swayed. biggrin.gif
twinky64:

Cool I am of the same age and now I wish I was going to school for mechanical engineering, but originally I made plans to major in marketing. As a marketing major, I would say the commercial has served its purpose, and that when the company stands to make a lot of money, they know how to legally stretch the truth. Good luck with the mechanical engineering, maybe when you graduate you can figure out how to make the intake even more efficient.

Interesting to note, I have never seen this before, but maybe it has been done before, but the new Infiniti G has a dual intake system. I can’t find an article on it for a link
, but Ifiniti calls it a “High-flow tuned induction system.”

 

Bitter

New member
No, that mechanic teacher was in the commercial at some 2yr trade school. Well...I'm so young (20yrs) that I'll believe alot as long as it makes some type of mechanical sense. I'm currently majoring in mechanical engineering at CSUFullerton. Perhaps as I dig deeper into my major, I wont be so easily swayed. biggrin.gif
twinky64:

Cool I am of the same age and now I wish I was going to school for mechanical engineering, but originally I made plans to major in marketing. As a marketing major, I would say the commercial has served its purpose, and that when the company stands to make a lot of money, they know how to legally stretch the truth. Good luck with the mechanical engineering, maybe when you graduate you can figure out how to make the intake even more efficient.

Interesting to note, I have never seen this before, but maybe it has been done before, but the new Infiniti G has a dual intake system. I can’t find an article on it for a link
, but Ifiniti calls it a “High-flow tuned induction system.”
its been around for almost 20 years, look up toyota T-VIS

 

JeffG

New member
All snake oil

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/08/07...tion/index.html

Next up was the Tornado, a device that turns air inside a car's air intake valve into a mini-tornado. The manufacturer -- Tornado Air Management Systems -- said it makes engines burn fuel more efficiently.

In the test, the Tornado reduced a Lincoln Navigator's fuel mileage by just under a mile per gallon, from 18.4 mpg without the device to 17.5 mpg with it installed.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ma...rchTerm=tornado

The Fuel Genie ($100 with shipping) is a plastic device with curved blades that fits inside the air-intake hose. It promises more power and better gas mileage. The airflow is supposed to allow for better performance. We installed the Fuel Genie in a 2004 Toyota Tundra and a 2004 Dodge Stratus. The instructions say that it will take two tanks of gas before the device is fully effective. We followed the instructions and ran our standard acceleration and fuel economy tests with and without the device, and saw no significant improvement in performance or fuel economy when using the Fuel Genie.

TornadoFuelSaver

The Tornado ($62 with shipping) is a similar device made of stainless steel with thin metal blades. Versions are sold for both carburated and fuel-injected engines. It is installed in the air inlet hose between the throttle body and the air filter. This is the same product we tested for a July 1999 report, when we said it didn't improve power or gas mileages in two test vehicles.

We installed the fuel injector type in a Ford Ranger pickup truck and a Volkswagen New Beetle. We ran our standard acceleration and fuel economy tests with and without the Tornado installed. The Ranger saw no improvement in acceleration, while the New Beetle saw slightly worse performance. Neither vehicle showed an improvement in fuel economy. Although we didn't test the TornadoFuelSaver, it appears identical to the previously tested Tornado device and we expect its performance would be the same.

 

Bikeman982

Bikeman982
I don't believe any of those devices that are supposed to give you more power or save you more fuel.

Any product that is mostly hype is sure to be a rip-off , or at least of questionable credibility.

 
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No, that mechanic teacher was in the commercial at some 2yr trade school. Well...I'm so young (20yrs) that I'll believe alot as long as it makes some type of mechanical sense. I'm currently majoring in mechanical engineering at CSUFullerton. Perhaps as I dig deeper into my major, I wont be so easily swayed. biggrin.gif
twinky64:

Cool I am of the same age and now I wish I was going to school for mechanical engineering, but originally I made plans to major in marketing. As a marketing major, I would say the commercial has served its purpose, and that when the company stands to make a lot of money, they know how to legally stretch the truth. Good luck with the mechanical engineering, maybe when you graduate you can figure out how to make the intake even more efficient.

Interesting to note, I have never seen this before, but maybe it has been done before, but the new Infiniti G has a dual intake system. I can’t find an article on it for a link
, but Ifiniti calls it a “High-flow tuned induction system.”
its been around for almost 20 years, look up toyota T-VIS
Thanks for clearing that up Bitter.
It's funny that as soon as I post that ignorant bit I see it on another ride. To me it seems like it would be relatively effective way to have less restricted airflow. Do you know that to be true?

 
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Bitter

New member
having too much intake can cause a loss of torque at low engine speeds (i dont entirely understand why, i just know it to be true) and not enough intake can cause loss of power and higher rpms (it just cant pull in enough air).

by making the intake runner size variable they can get the best of both, and with VVT they can do even more. the new chrysler/mitsu/hyundai world engine uses both.

 

TheDarkKnight

New member
Honestly, I have no idea how or if all these gagets out do anything.

But I AM running with a tornado in my 4rnr.

When I first got the car... many moons ago... it was running 16-17miles/gallon.

After installing the tornado, another magnet thing on the fuel line (again, no idea how or if it works), getting rid of the full size spare (which must wiegh 50lb or more!) and a few other changes, i am currently running 20-21miles.

So, does it give more power? no idea.

does it give better milage? i dont see how it possibly could, but it seems to work.

I have also run with acetone in the tank b/c "its supposed to get better milage". i am not convinced of it. but i am always willing to test it out.

one of these days, i will make it all stock and see if my milage drops...

tdk.

 

texasrolla

New member
You'd think, with all the money that goes into power improvements and especially fuel economy, that if someone made such a simple device that could make improvments of several percent that it would be in every single new car and the inventor would be a billionaire. He wouldn't have to advertise on late-night TV, he would present it to the big car companies and they'd test it and take it in a heartbeat.
Ah, didn't you watch "Who killed the Electric Car"? The oil mafia, I mean company, and the auto industry are colluding to keep oil demand high. If everyone drives simple electric cars, oil mafias, I mean company, would not be making $10 billion every 3 months, and the car companies' profit would take a nose dive because it demand heavily on having complex vehicles that uses a lot of parts, like in gasoline cars. Similarly, if there is a simple device that can reduce the profit margin of big oil mafia, I mean company, you can be sure to see a compaign to discredit the inventor and his invention.

 
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