8th Gen Gauges

twinky64

New member
On my 98 corolla, there is no tachometer. The speedometer gauge has an LCD screen which displays the odometer and tripmeter. The fuel/temp gauge doesn't have an LCD.

My question is: on an 8th gen. gauge WITH TACH, what does the LCD under the tach display?

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
It displays the outside temperature. NOTE: if you want to swap in a cluster with a tach, it will work - just plug and play - but your mileage readout will be different and the temp will display -E-.

 

twinky64

New member
It displays the outside temperature. NOTE: if you want to swap in a cluster with a tach, it will work - just plug and play - but your mileage readout will be different and the temp will display -E-.
So, the mileage is not recorded and stored in the ECU? Its stored in the cluster itself? Also, why would the temp display E? Do I not have that wire that reads outside temp?

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
So, the mileage is not recorded and stored in the ECU? Its stored in the cluster itself? Also, why would the temp display E? Do I not have that wire that reads outside temp?
Nope - mileage is on the cluster itself - not a deal breaker as you could simply transfer the speedo from one to the other. Correct on the temp - models without the tach as OEM are missing the thermistor that measures temperature.

 

baadpuppy

New member
Correct on the temp - models without the tach as OEM are missing the thermistor that measures temperature.
Is there not a way to install the missing thermistor? I'm guessing that the wiring harness would still have the wire needed for the thermistor. Where is the thermistor usually located?

I've been lamenting the lack of a tach in my 98 Corolla and was very pleased to find this thread. Much better solution that an aftermarket tach.

Thanks,

jim

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
Thermistor is located by the front grille - may luck out and have the wiring already there, just have to add the sensor. Easiest way to get one if from a salvage yard - dealership would probably not stock that thermistor - have to order it for you.

 

baadpuppy

New member
Is the attached pic the right connector? Sorry for the poor quality, it was taken with a cell phone. This is behind the bumper, directly under the hood latch, about 8 to 12 inches down I'd guess.

View attachment 1

 

baadpuppy

New member
That could be it; since it is not connected to anything.
My concern is that it might be for fog lights or something else I haven't even thought of. However, it does appear to be in the correct location for the thermister fish mentioned.

I do wish the car had fog lights. Maybe someday I'll get a factory service manual and figure out how to get more of the features I want into this plain little CE.

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
Yup - that is the thermistor. You can double check by probing pins #8 and #16 on the wiring harness "A" - the 16 pin wire bundle that goes to the back of the cluster (it is the largest of the 4 bundles back there).

 

baadpuppy

New member
Thanks again to everyone in this forum for all the wondefully helpful information.

I acquired via ebay a used instrument cluster with tach, and swapped my speedo (including odometer) into it, and now I have a functional tach!

I do have the -E- on the LCD display instead of a temperature, but that's because I don't have the thermister as fish has said. I'll hopefully find one that'll plug into that empty connector in my car and have that feature working too. However, even without that feature, having a tach is awesome!

fish, if you ever find yourself on the eastern side of the bay, give me a shout. I'll treat you to a beverage of your choosing.


thanks again,

jim

 

baadpuppy

New member
That's great news that you now have a working tachometer.What are you doing with your old instrument cluster?
Well, years ago I had a ford probe, and I went nuts with "upgrade" and "tweaks". Granted, the mazda 2.2L Turbo engine was fun, but I reached a point where I had more projects going on than I could keep straight, and the car was in a bazillion pieces, and I never did get it back together. At one point I had 3 of them (a parts donor car, an engine donor car, and the one I was trying to get back in shape). Then the county came along and said I was in violation of the junk vehicle laws, and off to the scrapyard they went.

I've decided I'm not going to go nuts with this vehicle. I want to keep as close to stock as possible in most cases. So when I need to make a hole in a plastic panel, I first buy a replacement panel and put the original in a safe storage place, so I can put it back if I ever need to.

My plan is to hang on to the original instrument cluster for this reason. However, I might get rid of it on ebay after several month. I'm just not sure yet...

I did end up re-using the speedo from the original panel, and I transferred all the lights rather than painstakingly testing the lights in the new panel. Also, the new panel has a problem with the left turn signal indicator not lighting. If the highbeams happen to be on, the left blinkers cause the highbeam indicator to blink. I don't know if the original panel had that problem. I'll track it down eventually. Hopefully something super simple.

Would an 8th gen instrument cluster work in your 7th gen cars?

Oh yeah, this was also the first instrument panel swap I ever did on a vehicle with no speedometer cable.


 

Bikeman982

Bikeman982
That's great news that you now have a working tachometer.What are you doing with your old instrument cluster?
Well, years ago I had a ford probe, and I went nuts with "upgrade" and "tweaks". Granted, the mazda 2.2L Turbo engine was fun, but I reached a point where I had more projects going on than I could keep straight, and the car was in a bazillion pieces, and I never did get it back together. At one point I had 3 of them (a parts donor car, an engine donor car, and the one I was trying to get back in shape). Then the county came along and said I was in violation of the junk vehicle laws, and off to the scrapyard they went.

I've decided I'm not going to go nuts with this vehicle. I want to keep as close to stock as possible in most cases. So when I need to make a hole in a plastic panel, I first buy a replacement panel and put the original in a safe storage place, so I can put it back if I ever need to.

My plan is to hang on to the original instrument cluster for this reason. However, I might get rid of it on ebay after several month. I'm just not sure yet...

I did end up re-using the speedo from the original panel, and I transferred all the lights rather than painstakingly testing the lights in the new panel. Also, the new panel has a problem with the left turn signal indicator not lighting. If the highbeams happen to be on, the left blinkers cause the highbeam indicator to blink. I don't know if the original panel had that problem. I'll track it down eventually. Hopefully something super simple.

Would an 8th gen instrument cluster work in your 7th gen cars?

Oh yeah, this was also the first instrument panel swap I ever did on a vehicle with no speedometer cable.
The instrument panel will probably not work for me, I was just curious as to what you would do with it.

I have a lot of left-over parts in my garage and was wondering what I should do with them.

I had another engine and now I have bought a car to put it in from e-Bay.

That means the bad engine I take out will end up in my pile of parts.

 

baadpuppy

New member
Looks like I've hijacked this topic.


In any case, I figured I'd update the information about my instrument cluster swap in case anyone was interested.

I noticed first that the left turn signal caused the high beam indicator to flash if the high beams were on. But not if they were off. And the left turn signal indicator remained dark. Yesterday I noticed that turning on the rear defrost caused the left turn signal indicator to light.

After some deliberation, I decided to put things back to the original configuration.

First though, I decided to scan the circuits into a computer so I could figure out everything that is different about them. The instrument cluster is longer than the scanner, so I had to scan from each end then attempt to stitch them back together afterwards.

Here's my original cluster:

View attachment 3

and here's the one I bought:

View attachment 4

I circled the area that is different for the turn signals in blue. I also made some notes about all over the place.

In any case, perhaps someone else will find these useful. I'm still working on identifying all the differences.

jim

 

baadpuppy

New member
ok, I've laboriously traced out each connection from the connectors to the items they connect to. I did this by drawing a different colored line on each trace in the scans of the circuits.

I don't have any official docs (like a factory service manual, or factory wiring diagram), so in the absense of the correct names for the connectory, I simply named them C1 thru C5, with C2 being the 3 pin ABS related connector, counting from left to right with the connectors at the top of the board from the back. In other words, from left to right in the pictures I posted in the previous post. I numbered the pins the same way, from 1 to whatever.

Here are the changes:

C1 pin 9: original goes to: IG+ for Fuel and Temp gauges, and these lamps: CEL, Windshield Washer, O/D off, Oil, Cruise, Seatbelt, Brake. New one goes to: IG+ for Fuel, speedometer, tachometer, and temp gauge. These lamps: CEL, WW, O/D, ABS, Low Gas, Brake, Seatbelt, Oil, Cruise

C2 pin 2: original goes to: C3 pin 2, Rear Defrost Lamp, odd circuit behind speedo, L and R turn signals, High beam. New one goes to: C3 pin 2, odd circuit behind speedo, L and R turn signals.

C3 pin 10: original goes to: SE on speedometer, E on fuel gauge, C4 pin 2. New goes to: C4 pin 2, C4 pin 1, SE on speedometer and fuel and tachometer

C3 pin 11: original goes to: Rear Defrost. New goes to Left Turn Lamp

C3 pin 12: original goes to: Left Turn Lamp. New goes to: high beam other leg.

C4 pin 1: original isn't connected, new is: C4 pin 2, C3 pin 10, SE on speedometer and fuel and tachometer

C4 pin 2: original is: SE on speedometer, E on Fuel Gauge, C3 pin 10. new is: C4 pin 1, C3 pin 10, SE on speedometer, fuel, tachometer.

C4 pin 9: original isn't connected, new is: TAM on tachometer

C4 pin 14: original isn't connected, new is: IG- on tachometer

C5 pin 9: original is +B on speedo, door ajar lamp, new is: +B on speedo, +B on tach, door ajar lamp

I don't think I did any damage with the incorrect cluster in. However, I'm hesitant to try it in the car again. I'm keeping my eye open for a different cluster

I'm wondering if this cluster didn't perhaps come from a different model of toyota. Does anyone know how interchangable they might be? I know the ebayer said it came from a corolla, but you never know. Of course, a different model year might explain it.

jim

 

fishexpo101

I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous wor
Clusters from the same generation and market (ie. 8th gen (1998-2002) for North American market only) - are plug and ply. There are some differences - but they wiring is largely the same between the two (connector wise).

I've got some scanned FSM diagrams on my Photobucket site - might be useful:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...usterwiring.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...hgenCluster.jpg

Thanks for the very detailed wire tracing, even that is covered in that detail in the Factory service manual without breaking out the separate wiring diagram.

 

baadpuppy

New member
Clusters from the same generation and market (ie. 8th gen (1998-2002) for North American market only) - are plug and ply. There are some differences - but they wiring is largely the same between the two (connector wise).
I've got some scanned FSM diagrams on my Photobucket site - might be useful:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...usterwiring.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...hgenCluster.jpg

Thanks for the very detailed wire tracing, even that is covered in that detail in the Factory service manual without breaking out the separate wiring diagram.
I appreciate the scans, they've been helpful.

I have a 1998 corolla. However, the instrument cluster that it came with does not match your scans. B3 on my instrument cluster is the rear defrost lamp, and on your scans, there's no rear defrost. In fact, on my replacement cluster, the lamp for the rear defrost doesn't even have any traces going to it.

Everything else matches pretty close.

pin - Scan - mine - replacement

B2 - Light Control - L. Turn - High Beam

B3 - L. Turn - R. Defrost - L. Turn

These are the most significant differences.

I wonder if later year models might not have moved the rear defrost indicator to the button, and eliminated the need in the instrument cluster.

On the plus side, I used a tone generator and tone tracer to verify that the mystery plug in my grill area is in fact the outside ambient air temperature sensor connector. It connects to pins A8 and A16.

Thanks again fish.

jim

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bikeman982

Bikeman982
ok, I've laboriously traced out each connection from the connectors to the items they connect to. I did this by drawing a different colored line on each trace in the scans of the circuits.
I don't have any official docs (like a factory service manual, or factory wiring diagram), so in the absense of the correct names for the connectory, I simply named them C1 thru C5, with C2 being the 3 pin ABS related connector, counting from left to right with the connectors at the top of the board from the back. In other words, from left to right in the pictures I posted in the previous post. I numbered the pins the same way, from 1 to whatever.

Here are the changes:

C1 pin 9: original goes to: IG+ for Fuel and Temp gauges, and these lamps: CEL, Windshield Washer, O/D off, Oil, Cruise, Seatbelt, Brake. New one goes to: IG+ for Fuel, speedometer, tachometer, and temp gauge. These lamps: CEL, WW, O/D, ABS, Low Gas, Brake, Seatbelt, Oil, Cruise

C2 pin 2: original goes to: C3 pin 2, Rear Defrost Lamp, odd circuit behind speedo, L and R turn signals, High beam. New one goes to: C3 pin 2, odd circuit behind speedo, L and R turn signals.

C3 pin 10: original goes to: SE on speedometer, E on fuel gauge, C4 pin 2. New goes to: C4 pin 2, C4 pin 1, SE on speedometer and fuel and tachometer

C3 pin 11: original goes to: Rear Defrost. New goes to Left Turn Lamp

C3 pin 12: original goes to: Left Turn Lamp. New goes to: high beam other leg.

C4 pin 1: original isn't connected, new is: C4 pin 2, C3 pin 10, SE on speedometer and fuel and tachometer

C4 pin 2: original is: SE on speedometer, E on Fuel Gauge, C3 pin 10. new is: C4 pin 1, C3 pin 10, SE on speedometer, fuel, tachometer.

C4 pin 9: original isn't connected, new is: TAM on tachometer

C4 pin 14: original isn't connected, new is: IG- on tachometer

C5 pin 9: original is +B on speedo, door ajar lamp, new is: +B on speedo, +B on tach, door ajar lamp

I don't think I did any damage with the incorrect cluster in. However, I'm hesitant to try it in the car again. I'm keeping my eye open for a different cluster

I'm wondering if this cluster didn't perhaps come from a different model of toyota. Does anyone know how interchangable they might be? I know the ebayer said it came from a corolla, but you never know. Of course, a different model year might explain it.

jim
I think that within the same year clusters can be different for different models, such as CE, LE, DX, etc.

 

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