Toyota Vs. Volkswagen Quality

I own a '02 V6 Passat and a '99 Corolla, and I fully agree with what jimb29635 said.

My parents owned Volkswagens throughout the 1980s. According to them, they were pretty much cheap, junky, disposable cars that barely lasted 100k miles. The last VW my mom owned was an 89' Golf/Rabbit. She tells me she would never buy a volkswagen again, based on her experiences with them. I don't know about their quality today, but from what I gather back 20 years ago, their quality was pretty bad.

In general, I wouldn't buy a German car. Not to be prejudice, but German cars in general are just not good. Their reliability has always fallen below the American and Japanese markets. Also, their cars are overweight and pretty fuel inefficient (even their diesel ones). Just compare the Jetta to the Corolla. They Jetta gets 23/32 MPG manual, while a Corolla gets 32/41. Yes, the Jetta makes 150 HP, but its lugging around over 3200 lbs so its not much faster than the Corolla, probably slower.

Another update. My older sister finally bought the first new car she ever owned -- a 2008 VW GTI 4-dr. Hatchback! Like most VW owners I've known, they are totally in love with the car's performance, handling, etc. and are absolutely blind to the maintenance and reliability issues. Heck, the darn thing even requires Premium fuel, but she's telling me it will run OK on 89 octane. Well, maybe, but I'm sure that when a manufacturer says Premium fuel, they mean 91 octane! So whatever maintenance issues she'd have anyway, she'll probably be exacerbating them by using 89 octane gasoline. Naturally I tried to persuade her to look for something -- ANYTHING more reliable. Even a Ford Focus has a better reliability record! But she had to pay the big bucks for that VW, and I fear for her automotive future. We'll see what happens.

Here's my update on our 2 Corollas:

1. 2003 LE - Son traded last week at 106K for a 2008 Scion XB. No warranty work except sulphur farts recall. He just felt it was a good time to trade and loved the Scion's appeal to his age group.

2. 2003 CE - going great at 56K. Just had 3rd serpentine belt changed at my expense along with tensioner done free per TSB on extended warranty.

Only issue with the CS is brake squeal on first stop. Brakes are fine with fronts changed with OEM pads. There is a TSB for this but it's not covered by extended warranty and involves changing pads, rotors, and calipers. No benefit but cosmetic removal of noise.

Scion's neat but can't be ordered w/o gadgets, so it's probably off my list.

My sister-in-law has had two Jettas recently....nice looking cars and handle very well.

She had a a lot of problems with the 1st. The only reason she bought the 2nd is it was the only way to get out of the 1st without losing a ton of money. The 2nd has been somewhat better though.

Another update. My older sister finally bought the first new car she ever owned -- a 2008 VW GTI 4-dr. Hatchback! Like most VW owners I've known, they are totally in love with the car's performance, handling, etc. and are absolutely blind to the maintenance and reliability issues. Heck, the darn thing even requires Premium fuel, but she's telling me it will run OK on 89 octane. Well, maybe, but I'm sure that when a manufacturer says Premium fuel, they mean 91 octane! So whatever maintenance issues she'd have anyway, she'll probably be exacerbating them by using 89 octane gasoline. Naturally I tried to persuade her to look for something -- ANYTHING more reliable. Even a Ford Focus has a better reliability record! But she had to pay the big bucks for that VW, and I fear for her automotive future. We'll see what happens.

My parents owned Volkswagens throughout the 1980s. According to them, they were pretty much cheap, junky, disposable cars that barely lasted 100k miles. The last VW my mom owned was an 89' Golf/Rabbit. She tells me she would never buy a volkswagen again, based on her experiences with them. I don't know about their quality today, but from what I gather back 20 years ago, their quality was pretty bad.

 

In general, I wouldn't buy a German car. Not to be prejudice, but German cars in general are just not good. Their reliability has always fallen below the American and Japanese markets. Also, their cars are overweight and pretty fuel inefficient (even their diesel ones). Just compare the Jetta to the Corolla. They Jetta gets 23/32 MPG manual, while a Corolla gets 32/41. Yes, the Jetta makes 150 HP, but its lugging around over 3200 lbs so its not much faster than the Corolla, probably slower.

 

I can understand not liking newer VWs that have higher German prices and made in Mexico, but I LOVE the older GLi's from the 80-90s. Those things were sweet. They lasted well over 100K too. They did still cost more to own, but that is kind of true of any car that has more power and more goodies. Comparing a Corolla to a nicer car is like comparing apples to oranges. I really think that most of VW problems are cars built in Mexico and not Germany. My in laws have two TDi wagons and the TDi wagon was built in Germany and they are both around 80K miles and they had some things fixed under warranty, but I don't think they have cost too much out of warranty. They get over 40MPG all the time. That is more then a Rolla. They cost more, but if I had access to biodiesel, I'd look in to a used one. The wagon is the only one built in Germany tho. Not sure what that's all about, but I personally refuse to buy a German car that is built in Mexico. That is just silly. The same goes for other cars too. I was interested in the Ford Focus, but why would I buy a car from a American car company that was made in Mexico?!?!?

I think Volkswagons have changed over the years, Of course they cost more but there is more technology in them.

I used to buy old VW beetles and repair them to be sold later. They were air-cooled and easy to work on.

Comparing them to Corollas is apples and oranges - two different cars completely.

New Volkswagons are expensive and so are the new Corollas. I choose the cheaper, older cars.

I would never criticize anyone for owning one. I just happen to be accustomed to older Corollas, lately.

I like the Mazda 3 and VW Jetta (especially the TDI) better than the Corolla, from a style standpoint. Both of those cars look premium, where the Rolla says "economy car."

Having said that, I steered away from the Jetta TDI in 03 (even though I REALLY LIKED the Jetta) because of the AWFUL quality reputation.

I like the Mazda 3 and VW Jetta (especially the TDI) better than the Corolla, from a style standpoint. Both of those cars look premium, where the Rolla says "economy car."

Having said that, I steered away from the Jetta TDI in 03 (even though I REALLY LIKED the Jetta) because of the AWFUL quality reputation.

My wife switched to the Mazda3 (hatchback) because she wanted a space for the dog to travel in.

 

 

I wrecked my '96 Tercel on 03. I shopped around for a car for a while, but wanted a change from toyota. I thought meh after driving a Mazda 5, I couldn't afford a Suburu, So i looked at VW. I was excited about the mileage on the diesel (at that time Diesel was cheaper that Gas.) So I bought a used 2000 VW golf TDI. It is my favorite car i've owned. I don't think it is the best car I've owned, but it is hard to compare, since this has alot of modern features. It also has some problems, (junky interior pieces, Expensive dealers) But it is easy to get over if you love your car, and maintain it yourself, avoiding the dealer. At 90HP it isn't a performance car, (mine is about 140HP) but it smells like popcorn when I burnin' biodiesel!

I wrecked my '96 Tercel on 03. I shopped around for a car for a while, but wanted a change from toyota. I thought meh after driving a Mazda 5, I couldn't afford a Suburu, So i looked at VW. I was excited about the mileage on the diesel (at that time Diesel was cheaper that Gas.) So I bought a used 2000 VW golf TDI. It is my favorite car i've owned. I don't think it is the best car I've owned, but it is hard to compare, since this has alot of modern features. It also has some problems, (junky interior pieces, Expensive dealers) But it is easy to get over if you love your car, and maintain it yourself, avoiding the dealer. At 90HP it isn't a performance car, (mine is about 140HP) but it smells like popcorn when I burnin' biodiesel!

It must be time to switch back to a (Toyota) Corolla!

 

 

Our next car might be a VW. The current Rabbit is made in Germany and if they sell a TDi in 08, we will take a look. I might look in to a extended warranty to tho, cause upkeep can cost a bit.

The Corolla overall is a good car, but I want even more fuel economy. I don't care if it cost more. Diesel is cheaper in the summer and more in the winter, but it evens out over all.

I used to work at a Volkswagen repair shop, and I can tell you for certain that 90% of new Volkswagens are pure junk. If you want a Volkswagen, get an old one--they're indestructible. I used to see new Volkswagens with less than 30k miles come in with blown head gaskets, sheared connecting rod pins, cracked heads--you name it. Way too expensive to repair, and almost impossible to do it yourself unless you're a Volkswagen-certified master mechanic.

The same thing goes for Audis and Porsches, only they've got more problems and they're even more expensive to repair. If you're desperate for a diesel Toyota, go to Germany, buy a diesel Corolla, ship it back here, and have it modified to American specs. I know it's a hassle, but it's probably cheaper than owning a Volkswagen.

I used to work at a Volkswagen repair shop, and I can tell you for certain that 90% of new Volkswagens are pure junk. If you want a Volkswagen, get an old one--they're indestructible. I used to see new Volkswagens with less than 30k miles come in with blown head gaskets, sheared connecting rod pins, cracked heads--you name it. Way too expensive to repair, and almost impossible to do it yourself unless you're a Volkswagen-certified master mechanic.

The same thing goes for Audis and Porsches, only they've got more problems and they're even more expensive to repair. If you're desperate for a diesel Toyota, go to Germany, buy a diesel Corolla, ship it back here, and have it modified to American specs. I know it's a hassle, but it's probably cheaper than owning a Volkswagen.

 

VW has become base crap.

Quick clutch failures. door windows fall into door, ignition coil grief, and more.

Pretty to look at, nice to drive when running, but an insult to the great VW's of the past.

Avoid VW. Even GM is a better pick, possibly even Ford (gasp).

I used to work at a Volkswagen repair shop, and I can tell you for certain that 90% of new Volkswagens are pure junk. If you want a Volkswagen, get an old one--they're indestructible. I used to see new Volkswagens with less than 30k miles come in with blown head gaskets, sheared connecting rod pins, cracked heads--you name it. Way too expensive to repair, and almost impossible to do it yourself unless you're a Volkswagen-certified master mechanic.

The same thing goes for Audis and Porsches, only they've got more problems and they're even more expensive to repair. If you're desperate for a diesel Toyota, go to Germany, buy a diesel Corolla, ship it back here, and have it modified to American specs. I know it's a hassle, but it's probably cheaper than owning a Volkswagen.

 

Have you seen diesel engines fail? My inlaws have two wagons. One manual, one auto. No engine or trans problems. Both have over 80K miles. They had some electrical stuff fixed under warranty, but out side of warranty, I don't think they've had any problems.

Not sure why Porsche quality would change. Everything is done in house. They might outsource a few electronics, but they do as much in house stuff as they can.

I have a '89 Jetta 1.8L Wolfsberg with 250K miles I bought for $2500 in 96 with 70K miles. It's indestructible and fun to drive. I like driving it as much as my 2001 BMW 330i

My wife has a 2001 Corolla bought new. It's very reliable, except for a steering alignment issue.

In general:

1) Toyotas (Corollas) are more reliable. (1.8L engine is one of best ever made).

2) VW's are more fun to drive, handling is better, and one get's a feel of the road.

That said, for VWs:

1) Wolfsberg VW's tend to hold up better than Mex or SA

2) Mark IV platforms ('99-05) are very troublesome, my brother has replaced two window reguators, heating core, radio, brake cable (freezes in winter), and timing belt change requires removal of engine mounts!

3) The new Mark V platforms look great. Check for issues on www.vwvortex.com. A few are starting to crop up, but seems to be much better than Mark IV. Mark V now has independent rear suspension and handles even better.

4) Mark V's not fuel efficient. VW stupidly offers a 2.5L base engine rated at 21/30. Where's the 1.8L in my Mark II that gets 34/41 mpg? Guess we have to hope for the Polo.

For Corollas:

1) Other than an alignment issue that we've never solved (drifts to right), the '01 Corolla has been super reliable at 67K miles.

2) Don't feel as stable as VWs at highway speeds

3) Automatic tranny is one of best in the world. The gearing and gear selection is top notch. RPM is only 2600 at 70mph.

4) 1.8L engine is bullet-proof.

I wish VW still made the MarkII.

Every single person I know that owns a VW or Audi has problems, constantly replacing and fixing electronics and mechanical failure. I would not recommend those cars if you want something reliable. However they do run veyr high on performance since the company that manufactures them is basically in to german performance cars. I personally like some of thew new VW's but I would never own one because of the headache. That being said I drive a 2001 Toyota Corolla S with a custom turbo kit and it is aboult the least reliable car in the world right now, but only because I pushed it too hard

This thread has generated a lot of very interesting information. I am no longer interested in ANYTHING from VW, and am, as of now, planning to keep my '03 Corolla long-term. It is now 5 years old, with only 52,000 miles! I've done all the simple fluids maintenance myself, but tomorrow it goes in to the Stealer service dept. for a cooling system service and a TSB on the serp belt and tensioner -- which will cost me about $470 just for that! Anyway, the car has been utterly reliable in every other respect, and the total dollar amount of maintenance on this '03 Corolla as opposed to my former '91 Ford Taurus is maybe 20%!

My sister just purchased a 2008 VW GTI -- much to my disapproval. I've driven it, and it does give you a great driving experience, but I keep most of my cars long term, so I'm more interested in the ownership experience. I don't spend a lot of time in my cars, so the driving experience doesn't really matter much to me. My Corolla's driving experience is just fine, since I have no delusions of being in any kind of race.

The VW Jetta/Passat diesel idea has pretty much gone out of my head, and I think all who have provided their input so far. I think this thread is one of the best I've participated in so far on this blog. Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Let's keep it going!

What's strange is I know a few people who have gasoline VWs and they love them. A few years ago, well maybe more like 5 years ago or so, VW had supplier problems and they had bad ECUs. Cars didn't always start every morning and what not. That problem has plagued VW ever since. As much as I read about complaints about VW, I wonder how many people who complain actually experienced the problem first hand, or if they are just repeating something they heard about.

I wouldn't by a gasoline VW cause they are really heavy for the HP they put out. I would just buy a Si or something instead. VW is brining back the diesel tho, and only the Jetta has been announced, I very much want to look in to a TDi Rabbit if it comes out. It is built in Germany, and it is the cheapest car VW sells. Add maybe 3K for a diesel engine, but the new ones are going to have much more usable power.

Just go to cars.com or any other online car place and try and find a used TDi. A small hand full of them show up, but owners generally want to keep them long term.

I'm sure WV sells extended warranties too.

Larry

$470?? No way

Last time I serviced the cooling system - I paid $80(including labor)

Tensioner assembley -$150-170 (Are they going to charge you for the tensioner?)

Serpantine belt $20-30

$200 for ~1 hour of labor??? Poor doctors......

Anyway, I'm at the same rate of putting miles on my car (10 years -120K ). There were some minor problems (tie-rod, tensioner), but mostly was regular maintenace expenses. Keep the car

For Corollas:1) Other than an alignment issue that we've never solved (drifts to right), the '01 Corolla has been super reliable at 67K miles.

 

2) Don't feel as stable as VWs at highway speeds

3) Automatic tranny is one of best in the world. The gearing and gear selection is top notch. RPM is only 2600 at 70mph.

4) 1.8L engine is bullet-proof.

For the record, 1zz-fe problems with oil consumption was not completely fixed until late 02 in the 2003 corollas and matrix.

Larry

$470?? No way

Last time I serviced the cooling system - I paid $80(including labor)

Tensioner assembley -$150-170 (Are they going to charge you for the tensioner?)

Serpantine belt $20-30

$200 for ~1 hour of labor??? Poor doctors......

Anyway, I'm at the same rate of putting miles on my car (10 years -120K ). There were some minor problems (tie-rod, tensioner), but mostly was regular maintenace expenses. Keep the car

You're right. The whole schmear was just a tad over $500. The serp belt/tensioner job itself was only around $240. I also replaced the battery; got soaked good for that, but in cold weather I'm not very inclined to do such jobs myself, so I paid for the convenience. My local dealer Service Dept. did a much better job than I expected, and I got free courtesy transportation at both ends of the job. So, all in all, I don't think I made out too badly.

Yes, I was charged for the tensioner -- just over $200 -- since the car is out of warranty.

v.w. = very worrysome . My best friend is a mazda and toyota certified master as well as a a.s.c. master. he was working at a suburu,mazda v.w. dealership. v.w.'s were constantly in for sensor and computer related failures.there are between 6 and 30 computers and related sensors in a v.w. the most of any car made except some high dollar Mercedes ,Cadillacs and b.m.w's. very expensive repairs. no warranty either.very difficult to fix and little factory support . technologically ,they are 5 years ahead of toyota ,but that makes you the experiment. look at the newer beetle .why do you think the thing depreciates so fast.

mazda is building a very good product ,especially the japan built protage's up to 2003 and the current 3's and 6's. suburu has major engine failures at about 80000. unrepairable because the blocks crack.

toyota has slipped in quality since the cars have been made in America. More human error. the 1.8 is not as good as the Japan 1.6 . look at the California N.U.M.I. cars like the geo prism.They are still not the quality of the Canadian or Japanese corolla's. Just ones persons opinion .

v.w. = very worrysome . My best friend is a mazda and toyota certified master as well as a a.s.c. master. he was working at a suburu,mazda v.w. dealership. v.w.'s were constantly in for sensor and computer related failures.there are between 6 and 30 computers and related sensors in a v.w. the most of any car made except some high dollar Mercedes ,Cadillacs and b.m.w's. very expensive repairs. no warranty either.very difficult to fix and little factory support . technologically ,they are 5 years ahead of toyota ,but that makes you the experiment. look at the newer beetle .why do you think the thing depreciates so fast.mazda is building a very good product ,especially the japan built protage's up to 2003 and the current 3's and 6's. suburu has major engine failures at about 80000. unrepairable because the blocks crack.

 

toyota has slipped in quality since the cars have been made in America. More human error. the 1.8 is not as good as the Japan 1.6 . look at the California N.U.M.I. cars like the geo prism.They are still not the quality of the Canadian or Japanese corolla's. Just ones persons opinion .

 

The beetle looses value so quickly because it's made in Mexico. If you can find a TDi Jetta wagon, it would probably hold more value then a Honda. I haven't heard of any Subie engine failures and quite a few owners on my DSM board race them and have owned them long term. They are known for having some weaker transmissions on the 5sp and dated auto's, but I haven't heard of a single engine failure. Cracked blocks should be a thing of the past. Got pics?

I would only buy a TDi, but my inlaws have two of them, and both around 80K miles and they look great. I'm wanting to hold out for a TDi rabbit if they sell them in the US. I think VW would have a lot more success if they took all manufacturing back to Germany, where it belongs.