Bikeman982
I think what was meant was that it required a lot of maintenance and the Toyota was less.
by Larry Roll June 1, 2006
Bikeman982
I think what was meant was that it required a lot of maintenance and the Toyota was less.
Cost of ownership is definitely higher for a Jetta TDI. I have a friend with a Jetta and the biggest on-going cost for him is the synthetic oil changes that ONLY the dealer can do with a special oil filter wrench. I do my own synthetic changes with a generic wrench and it costs me alot less.
Some other problems that he's experienced with the Jetta:
1. Electrical glitches with the day-time running lamps and headlight functions.
2. Sunroof electronics are kaput
3. Frequent glitches with the instruments, sound system, and power locks.
He's got 320 000 kms on his 01 Jetta (all highway) to my 210 000 km so the car is by no means a dog but we calculated our monthly $/km and his is higher despite the fact that it gets slightly better mileage with slightly cheaper fuel.
Bikeman982
I vote for the Corolla.
From a mfr with a rep for unparalelled reliability (original VW Beetle), VW has sunk into a gadget ridden pile of unreliable junk serviced by dealers who blame all failures on the owners.
The old Beetle was simple to a fault (even no gas gauge in the early ones) and was changed only incrementally to improve things. It lasted over 40 years and just finally exited production in Mexico a few years ago.
The kind of crap that has troubled New Beetle owners must make the old VW execs turn over in their graves.
VW is pretty but not a car to buy if you value reliability and economical upkeep.
Bikeman982
From a mfr with a rep for unparalelled reliability (original VW Beetle), VW has sunk into a gadget ridden pile of unreliable junk serviced by dealers who blame all failures on the owners.Well, I have owned three Beetles and one VW Transporter and all were simple to work on. I never drove them much - just bought them, fixed them and sold them for more than I paid for them. I drove the 1964 VW bus and siezed the engine the second day I owned it. I pulled the engine out (some of my first experience) in my yard in the cold winter of Massachusetts. I replaced the engine and drove it a while before trading it in for a Dodge van. Those were the days of air-cooled, four cylinder, rear mounted engines in the VW. Lots of memories there. I cannot vouch for the newer ones as I have switched to Corolla.The old Beetle was simple to a fault (even no gas gauge in the early ones) and was changed only incrementally to improve things. It lasted over 40 years and just finally exited production in Mexico a few years ago.
The kind of crap that has troubled New Beetle owners must make the old VW execs turn over in their graves.
VW is pretty but not a car to buy if you value reliability and economical upkeep.
Well, I've done some more research, and spoke to a couple more long-term VW owners, including one of my old college professors. They all confirm that VW's in general are not for the weak-of-heart or the tight of fist from a maintenance standpoint. Therefore, I guess my '03 Corolla will be getting a long-term test. It needs a good, thorough cleaning, waxing and detailing, so I'll try to get cracking on that this weekend, weather permitting.
BTW -- I purchased it in October of 2002, and to date, it has 37,800 miles! I have another approx. 1,000 mile round-trip to New York planned for the end of the month.
My two cents...
Before becoming a toyota customer I was a die-hard VW fan. I owned a 1984 Jetta and a 1992 Jetta. The first one was built in germany, and was a very solid car. The second one was built in Mexico, and had a few odd problems that had to be repaired over the years. However, I drove both of them up to 250K miles before selling them, and both still ran fine. The 1992 began to get costly to fix, however. I have heard that the newer VWs have had some serious and expensive design flaws and are pricey to fix. Even though I still get the itch to drive a fast VW, I think I am going to stick with toyotas due the the solid reliability record.
Cost of ownership is definitely higher for a Jetta TDI. I have a friend with a Jetta and the biggest on-going cost for him is the synthetic oil changes that ONLY the dealer can do with a special oil filter wrench. I do my own synthetic changes with a generic wrench and it costs me alot less.Some other problems that he's experienced with the Jetta:
1. Electrical glitches with the day-time running lamps and headlight functions.
2. Sunroof electronics are kaput
3. Frequent glitches with the instruments, sound system, and power locks.
He's got 320 000 kms on his 01 Jetta (all highway) to my 210 000 km so the car is by no means a dog but we calculated our monthly $/km and his is higher despite the fact that it gets slightly better mileage with slightly cheaper fuel.
Tell your friend to change his own oil. there is no special tool, but a standard oil filter wrench. Get a pela 6000, and vacuum the oil out from the under the hood. Simple, 15 min.
Bikeman982
You mean like the Jiffy Lube places do? They don't use the drain, which is located at the lowest part of the oil pan, they just suck it up with a vacuum pump and then refill!Cost of ownership is definitely higher for a Jetta TDI. I have a friend with a Jetta and the biggest on-going cost for him is the synthetic oil changes that ONLY the dealer can do with a special oil filter wrench. I do my own synthetic changes with a generic wrench and it costs me alot less.
Some other problems that he's experienced with the Jetta:
1. Electrical glitches with the day-time running lamps and headlight functions.
2. Sunroof electronics are kaput
3. Frequent glitches with the instruments, sound system, and power locks.
He's got 320 000 kms on his 01 Jetta (all highway) to my 210 000 km so the car is by no means a dog but we calculated our monthly $/km and his is higher despite the fact that it gets slightly better mileage with slightly cheaper fuel.
Tell your friend to change his own oil. there is no special tool, but a standard oil filter wrench. Get a pela 6000, and vacuum the oil out from the under the hood. Simple, 15 min.
big difference is in a ride as well.
i have golf 2003 and corolla 1995.
Toyota may have more room but the way cars are built, there is huge difference.
Golf offers solid and FUN ride (read FUN) vs corolla. Corolla is a tin can and we can debate toyotas are more reliable etc. I have not had any problems with my golf had it since new now on it 60000km. MADE IN BRASIL
TOYOTA is BORING and cheap car that has ton of cheap indo-asian plastic (like in dollarama) and you can not compare corolla with any vw maybe with POLO. Another thing is corolla is good as second car and mass produced car, go for it and buy vw you will enjoy it!
my 2 cents
big difference is in a ride as well.i have golf 2003 and corolla 1995.
Toyota may have more room but the way cars are built, there is huge difference.
Golf offers solid and FUN ride (read FUN) vs corolla. Corolla is a tin can and we can debate toyotas are more reliable etc. I have not had any problems with my golf had it since new now on it 60000km. MADE IN BRASIL
TOYOTA is BORING and cheap car that has ton of cheap indo-asian plastic (like in dollarama) and you can not compare corolla with any vw maybe with POLO. Another thing is corolla is good as second car and mass produced car, go for it and buy vw you will enjoy it!
my 2 cents
I have a 2002 Golf and my parents have 1994 Corolla--- guess which one rattles more????
The Golf. Heck that thing rattles and squeaks more new than the car it replaced... a 1988 Camry
big difference is in a ride as well.i have golf 2003 and corolla 1995.
Toyota may have more room but the way cars are built, there is huge difference.
Golf offers solid and FUN ride (read FUN) vs corolla. Corolla is a tin can and we can debate toyotas are more reliable etc. I have not had any problems with my golf had it since new now on it 60000km. MADE IN BRASIL
TOYOTA is BORING and cheap car that has ton of cheap indo-asian plastic (like in dollarama) and you can not compare corolla with any vw maybe with POLO. Another thing is corolla is good as second car and mass produced car, go for it and buy vw you will enjoy it!
my 2 cents
As I said you sacrifice looks to get better reliability. VW cars have bad reputation even my cousin in Mexico who drives a VW Derby says people get rid of their VW overthere when they hit 80,000km (~50,000) miles there known to start breaking after that kind of millage. I hope you knocked on wood, you may of just JINX your self... better hope you dont have to replace something thats going to eat your lunch in the next 20,000km 
On the other hand... Toyota trucks overthere have wooden beds because the original rusted off.. there are toyota trucks (alot of them) that where built in the 80's as well as nissan trucks driving all over doing heavy duty work.. work that is usually done by a Chevrolet HD trucks here..
Also... Let me add he is currently trying to sell his VW Derby and as expected for all VW owners overthere even tho the car is only 3 years old he is having a really hard time selling it. If he was trying to sell a 1981 Toyota or Nissan he would of probably sold it in one day.
My 2 Cents again
OMG!!!
5 Minutes after I finished posting the above^^^ my sister called me she said she is broke down. 
Her VW turbo beetle (60,000 miles) wont start LOL..... I just thought this would add to my argument. Got to go help her on my 1998 Corolla (110,000 miles).... 
see you guys later!!
You mean like the Jiffy Lube places do? They don't use the drain, which is located at the lowest part of the oil pan, they just suck it up with a vacuum pump and then refill!Cost of ownership is definitely higher for a Jetta TDI. I have a friend with a Jetta and the biggest on-going cost for him is the synthetic oil changes that ONLY the dealer can do with a special oil filter wrench. I do my own synthetic changes with a generic wrench and it costs me alot less.
Some other problems that he's experienced with the Jetta:
1. Electrical glitches with the day-time running lamps and headlight functions.
2. Sunroof electronics are kaput
3. Frequent glitches with the instruments, sound system, and power locks.
He's got 320 000 kms on his 01 Jetta (all highway) to my 210 000 km so the car is by no means a dog but we calculated our monthly $/km and his is higher despite the fact that it gets slightly better mileage with slightly cheaper fuel.
Tell your friend to change his own oil. there is no special tool, but a standard oil filter wrench. Get a pela 6000, and vacuum the oil out from the under the hood. Simple, 15 min.
Is this considered good or bad for the car?
Did the VWGolfist ever do a test between a 2003 or 9th gen. Corolla and 2003 VW Golf, b/c wouldn't that skew comparisons a bit???
For some reason or other the 1.8 Turbo engines are extremely sludge-prone. My freind with the TDI extoles on the reliability of the engine while being able to live with the electrical glitches (which cost no small amount to fix I might add).
Another German-speaking friend of mine, if you met him, you would think he would be proud to extole the teutonic pride that goes into a VW, owns a Jetta 1.8 T.
He always refers to his car as "Dieses SheiBauto!"
Food 4 thought.
I guess you can say whatever you want to say since it is COROLLA FORUM?!
I WILL NEVER SAY THAT COROLLA IS A BETTER CAR SINCE IT IS NOT!!
WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON?!
I HAD TERCEL = ENGINE DIED ON IT?!?! (aren toyota's UNDESTRUCTIBLE?!)
SIT AND DRIVE any GOLF 2006 and compare it WITH ANY 2006 MATRIX OR COROLLA, and then
tell me that you would rather get corolla, then you are just lying yourself. Corolla at 120km/hr makes engine
noise and it feels UNSAFE also what year did corolla make 15 inch rims standard?
C'MMON PEOPLE I know this is corolla forum but all the crap you can hear on these forums?!?! this is way
too much
As i said I have PROBLEM FREE 60000km on my MKIV, only oil changes, and new tires (isnt that maintenance).
I guess you can say whatever you want to say since it is COROLLA FORUM?!I WILL NEVER SAY THAT COROLLA IS A BETTER CAR SINCE IT IS NOT!!
WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON?!
I HAD TERCEL = ENGINE DIED ON IT?!?! (aren toyota's UNDESTRUCTIBLE?!)
SIT AND DRIVE any GOLF 2006 and compare it WITH ANY 2006 MATRIX OR COROLLA, and then
tell me that you would rather get corolla, then you are just lying yourself. Corolla at 120km/hr makes engine
noise and it feels UNSAFE also what year did corolla make 15 inch rims standard?
C'MMON PEOPLE I know this is corolla forum but all the crap you can hear on these forums?!?! this is way
too much
As i said I have PROBLEM FREE 60000km on my MKIV, only oil changes, and new tires (isnt that maintenance).
Listen I never said VW arent cool looking cars... I think they are cool looking and have far more futuristic looks than toyota and other... the lines are more sreamline... and the gaps in the interior moulding and exterior parts are seamless... compared to toyota... ALL im saying is that there is a tradeoff in reliability... now... Im not a rich man therefore I cannot afford to have a car break down... therefore in exchange for looks I will buy a corolla.. that is all Im saying .... Just because this is a corolla forum doesnt mean im going to tell you that corolla is the best car in the world... but what i can say is that based on feed back from VW owners and feedback from Corolla owners is that there is a big factor in repair costs and how often the repair costs happen.
my 2 cents
I've had many, many cars. I put a lot of miles on them in a short amount of time. I bought the 95 Corolla used about 3 1/2 years ago and I have NEVER had a car this reliable. I subsequently found a 98 Camry for my daughter.....same deal....great car...very reliable.
Is comparing a Corolla to a Golf/Jetta comparing apples to apples? I really don't know.
I do know that a lot of people are not happy with VWs.....those that love them LOVE them. My next door neighbor's kid loves them. He just converted a VR6 from front wheel drive to rear wheel drive......go figure huh?
My sister in law had a late model Jetta...had nothing but trouble with it.....the dealer sidestepped every problem she had til it was off warranty.
I do my own work so it will be nothing but Toyotas in my future.
Jay in MA
For some reason or other the 1.8 Turbo engines are extremely sludge-prone. My freind with the TDI extoles on the reliability of the engine while being able to live with the electrical glitches (which cost no small amount to fix I might add).Another German-speaking friend of mine, if you met him, you would think he would be proud to extole the teutonic pride that goes into a VW, owns a Jetta 1.8 T.
He always refers to his car as "Dieses SheiBauto!"
Food 4 thought.
That's like saying Toyotas are sludge prone-- which is only partially true due to certain engines and applications.
The 1.8T, mounted longitudinally, ie B5 Passat & A4 were prone because of 3 factors:
1. Heat from turbo
2. Reduced oil capacity due to interference with the subframe. Transverse 1.8T (A4 Golf, Jetta, Beetle, TT) have larger crankcases.
3. Use of dino oil instead of synthetic
THe Toyota sludge.... 5S-FE, 1MZ-FE... was due to 2 factors:
1. Toyota bumped up the operating temperature, in turn increasing efficiency (Thermodynamically)
2. THe long 7500 mile change interval.
How are these similar? Increased heat via turbo or operating temperature increases the load on the oil.
VW502.00 oils are synthetic (the term is open to interpretation-- that's another thread).
VW's remedy is to emphasize the VW502.00 and use of a larger filter.
Toyota? These days, when you crack open a manual, it's still conventional, however 5,000 mile change interval instead of 7500 miles.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1400331,00.html
Here's an interesting article from industrial trend watchers I though was relevant. The decline in reliability in the German brands is probably not an absolute decline but a percieved one. Due to the advances made by Asian manufacturers in quality control. So, not withstanding that VWs are more fun to drive (I'll TOTALLY concede that point as I was shopping for a TDI before getting my Corolla) my choice was swayed by my hierarchy of aesthetics.
1. Toyotas are more reliable (relatively)
2. Taking LESS of a chance in getting a dud makes me sleep better @ night.
3. The thought of invoking the lemon law makes "meinen blut geshwur"
Meine ehrlichen gedanken,
I never said Corolla was the best car in the world.
I'll give you my 2 cents worth. My wife has a 2003 VW Passat GLS with 1.8 Turbo motor, and I have a 2005 Corolla CE.
We live out in the country. She averages 28 mpg, I average 38 mpg. The Passat needs a timing belt/water pump change every 60000 miles. I do the work, the parts cost close to $400 US with timing belt, tensioner, 2 drive belts, thermostat, water pump, new coolant. The Corolla has a timing chain. Possible Corolla maintenance is new tensioner sometime after 100000 miles, with new chain at some point (high 100,000's ?). Passat has synthetic steering fluid and synthetic auto transmission fluid. An auto trans filter and fluid replacement costs me close to $130 to do (I do the work). Corolla is 5 speed manual. VW PCV valve failed at 60000 miles - $38. PCV valve for Corolla - $6. Because of turbo on VW, must use 0w40 or 5w40 synthetic oil, changed every 4000 miles. Corolla can get by cheaper. Brake parts seem to cost about the same. The VW is full of sensors, and has drive-by-wire (DBW), instead of an accelerator cable. It can be finicky. I finally found an air leak in a hose that caused rough acceleration. VW coil packs went bad at 48000 miles, replaced under warranty. Passat has 6 air bags, Corolla has 2. Passat weighs more, and gets better crash test results, but poorer mpg. When running correctly, the Passat is a sweet drive. There is something to be said for German engineering. But, my Corolla is fun to drive also. I don't find the Camry fun to drive. The Passat is basically an Audi A4 or A6. It simply costs more to own and operate. When running fine, it is fun to drive. When not running fine, I dream of Honda and Toyota. Passat at 90K miles, Corolla at 50K miles. Plan on keeping both until wheels fall off. Will definitely spend more on the VW.
You hit it exactly on the head.
VW's are fun to drive but a heartache and financial drain to maintain. Just think of the cost if you had the work done at a VW dealer.
IMHO, If you buy a VW, be sure to dump it before warranty ends.
I used to really like VW, but they have had quality problems for some years now. I don't think design is a problem, but they had component problems and build quality from Mexico plants.
Toyota and Lexus ARE some of the cheapest cars to actually own.
Well, back again, over a year since my last update. My '03 Corolla LE (purchased Sept. '02) is now way over 4 years old, and the odo is at around 47.5 kilomiles. As you can see, I haven't even driven it 9.000 miles in the last year and two weeks! Heck, the tires I put on it at around 12,000 miles are still looking almost new ( Goodyear Assurance Triple Tred's). I just did an oil/filter change and tire rotation last Saturday, everything underneath the car is looking great, except for some minor surface rust where you'd naturally expect to see it. I have to do another drain/replace on the tranny fluid soon, I'm on vacation next week and will probably do it then.
I have pretty much given up on the idea of switching from my Corolla to a Jetta TDI. I just don't drive enough to justify the maintenance headaches. If I had a long daily commute, which I don't, it would be a different story.
Anyway, I want to thank everyone for their really fantastic response to this thread, and you can bet it was a big help in my decision making process! My Corolla is going to go for a long-term "owner experience" as they say in the auto business! I'm also looking for a good, used ('98 - '00) Tacoma 2WD pickup, just to use as a "beater" for doing some yard projects, etc. Heck, I'd probably end up driving it to work as well, which will make my Corolla really stop "aging" -- at least in the mileage department. I haven't found the truck yet, I'm not going to buy until I find exactly what I'm looking for at a good price.
