Corolla Is More "american" Than Pony Mustang

newtypeal

New member
From the news I watched, Corolla is technically more American because ~85% of its parts used are made in the U.S., so it can claim to be "made in U.S.A." However, only 65% of Mustang's parts are made in the U.S., so it cannot claim to be "made in U.S.A." (Btw, the line to have that made in US mark is 75% of its parts are US made.)

Just thought I would share, for those who think "patriotic" is "good" or whatever.

 
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Larry Roll

New member
My 2003 Corolla LE is a "J-VIN" version, with, presumably, a 100% Made in Japan parts content. However, I have wondered if this is actually true. It would seem to me that even the Japanese Toyota plants would, out of necessity, use parts manufactured elsewhere, including the U.S.

In today's "global" economy, it is becoming less likely that ANYTHING you buy will be 100% "American" made. That's just the nature of business these days. Things are produced where the best quality and lowest unit cost can be achieved, and these days, that usually means anywhere BUT the United States. As an American, I was glad to get a "Made in Japan" Corolla, and that's mainly the reason I bought the particular one I did. It has been virtually 100% trouble free.

 

the99contour

New member
From the news I watched, Corolla is technically more American because ~85% of its parts used are made in the U.S., so it can claim to be "made in U.S.A." However, only 65% of Mustang's parts are made in the U.S., so it cannot claim to be "made in U.S.A." (Btw, the line to have that made in US mark is 75% of its parts are US made.)Just thought I would share, for those who think "patriotic" is "good" or whatever.
I think being patroitic is good, but it doesn't mean I have to buy a Ford or Chevy. It means I can buy what I feel best suits my needs and use my money as a tool to influence business.

It isn't that Americans can't make good cars. Many Toyotas are not only made here, but their parts are made here, and they are designed and engineered here. The reason FORD and GM don't seem to be able to make good cars (with a few exceptions) is that their mission is to make money and they simply see cars as a way to do it. Someone once said, "GM's mission isn't to make cars, GM's mission is to make Money." (this was actually written in a Motor Trend or Car and Driver magazine once) Other manufacturers goals are to make good cars, and then make money by selling these good cars. Because of the difference in goals, the leadership styles of Ford and GM are far different from those at Toyota and Honda.

 
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c2105026

New member
Mine is J-vin, too. At time of ordering, I specifically requested a jap corolla (i could have had a south african one). I don't have anything against sth africa, just that my guess is the fellows assembling the car in japan could be in more contact with the engineering department at toyota HQ in Nagoya than other assemblers on the other side of the world. In turn, there may be some in-house assembly corrections that the jap workers knew about than the sth african workers wouldn't, hence a vehicle with fewer issues.

I notice that some of the accessories are locally sourced. The wheels, for example. The accessory alloy wheels are about $165 each; the factory wheels that come on my car are $700 each.

 

twinky64

New member
Sadly, our economy is going down the drain because we are outsourcing our labor to across seas and now we are outsourcing design engineers, the very brains that once made this country great.

One could argue that its free trade, but what's free trade if we do not get any profit back from what the outsourced company gains? Those companies leaving the country is no longer for the idea "of king and country". I think a lot of people are not very happy with our country currently and that is just the catalyst for speeding this outsourcing up. Lately, the press has announced that unemployment has gone down and more jobs are made. But one must ask, what type of job, is it strawberry picking or working at mcdonalds?

Taiwan, according to my chinese friend's dad (who works in import export in taiwan and USA), said that they make laptops/notebooks the cheapest per money value than anywhere else. China is now using child labor and exploitation to make cost per item lower. Does this sound familiar?, something like the industrial revolution? Hell, the USA became great at first for doing the exact same thing, child labor and 16 hour days; England did so as well. Now, people are looking towards China to be the next greatest world economy as the empire of USA is slowly dwindling. I attend CSUF and took an economics class, capitolism is excellent IF AND ONLY IF you check and balance the citizens participating in it. Right now, its not really checked. I'm not saying I'm a democrat nor a republican, I'm independent, screw extremeties.

There are signs everywhere, the cost to make a penny costs more than one cent for the us mint to make. The value of the dollar is slowly losing its value. The average home is now $350,000 in california alone. Our pennies are not pure copper, they are zinc cored copper coated. I know, i did an experiment in chemistry last year. China is probably going to go up in terms of economic power, and we are slowly going down if not, flat-lining financially as a country. I think its China that is manufacturing the wings for Boeing to make our aircraft. Our own secret designs that make/made this country so great and staying on top of things is now being viewed by the world.

So it comes to Japan making one of the best automobiles in the world. We INVENTED cars and I would think after a century of planning, we would be on top, i mean, we invented the thing. Now we make some of the crappiest cars around. Some dodge hemi pickup model (I forget which one, I think its the Ram) required you to change the fuel injectors after 30,000 miles. That is not what the normal consumer wants. Nobody wants to buy a vehicle so their wife can be stranded on the 101 freeway because the car has a crappy lifespan or dependability. Geesh, america needs to get their act together. Cars are going to become more and more computer based and quite frankly, asia (ie. china and japan) has that down pat. Meanwhile, China is popping out engineers like rabbits compared to the US. You can argue that they have more engineers but they've always had more engineers, they've always had more people, and we always have come out the most technologically advanced............until now. If we cannot make cars, it makes me wonder what we really are capable of doing. Waoh

 
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the99contour

New member
Sadly, our economy is going down the drain because we are outsourcing our labor to across seas and now we are outsourcing design engineers, the very brains that once made this country great.One could argue that its free trade, but what's free trade if we do not get any profit back from what the outsourced company gains? Those companies leaving the country is no longer for the idea "of king and country". I think a lot of people are not very happy with our country currently and that is just the catalyst for speeding this outsourcing up. Lately, the press has announced that unemployment has gone down and more jobs are made. But one must ask, what type of job, is it strawberry picking or working at mcdonalds?

Taiwan, according to my chinese friend's dad (who works in import export in taiwan and USA), said that they make laptops/notebooks the cheapest per money value than anywhere else. China is now using child labor and exploitation to make cost per item lower. Does this sound familiar?, something like the industrial revolution? Hell, the USA became great at first for doing the exact same thing, child labor and 16 hour days; England did so as well. Now, people are looking towards China to be the next greatest world economy as the empire of USA is slowly dwindling. I attend CSUF and took an economics class, capitolism is excellent IF AND ONLY IF you check and balance the citizens participating in it. Right now, its not really checked. I'm not saying I'm a democrat nor a republican, I'm independent, screw extremeties.

There are signs everywhere, the cost to make a penny costs more than one cent for the us mint to make. The value of the dollar is slowly losing its value. The average home is now $350,000 in california alone. Our pennies are not pure copper, they are zinc cored copper coated. I know, i did an experiment in chemistry last year. China is probably going to go up in terms of economic power, and we are slowly going down if not, flat-lining financially as a country. I think its China that is manufacturing the wings for Boeing to make our aircraft. Our own secret designs that make/made this country so great and staying on top of things is now being viewed by the world.

So it comes to Japan making one of the best automobiles in the world. We INVENTED cars and I would think after a century of planning, we would be on top, i mean, we invented the thing. Now we make some of the crappiest cars around. Some dodge hemi pickup model (I forget which one, I think its the Ram) required you to change the fuel injectors after 30,000 miles. That is not what the normal consumer wants. Nobody wants to buy a vehicle so their wife can be stranded on the 101 freeway because the car has a crappy lifespan or dependability. Geesh, america needs to get their act together. Cars are going to become more and more computer based and quite frankly, asia (ie. china and japan) has that down pat. Meanwhile, China is popping out engineers like rabbits compared to the US. You can argue that they have more engineers but they've always had more engineers, they've always had more people, and we always have come out the most technologically advanced............until now. If we cannot make cars, it makes me wonder what we really are capable of doing. Waoh
We can build good cars here, Toyota and Honda do it everyday. It isn't the American worker, designer, or engineer that makes Chevys and Fords crapboxes when compared to Toyotas and Hondas. It is the culture of corporate greed and the fact that they let accountants make decisions that they aren't qualified to make. America can still build the finest products around, we just can't do it as cheaply as other countries. There are products we make here everyday that the rest of the world envies because of their quality. I bet you didn't know that we used to build Rolls Royces here because we could do it better than they could at Crewe. I also bet you didn't know that Jaguars were terribly unreliable cars until Ford Engineers went to Coventry and taught the British Jag engineers how to design a proper electrical system. We are undergoing a revolution from an industrial economy to a service based one. That was unavoidable. We need to focus on how to keep the manufacturing base we have and expand our service base. Toyota and Honda are going to be key players in keeping manufacturing here. As GM and Ford outsource more and more and move plants to Mexico, Toyota and Honda are building new plants here and trying to source as many parts as possible from US suppliers. Toyota and Honda have faith in the United States, it is the "American" companies like GM and Ford who don't.

Don't claim we can't build a car and that the country is going to hell in a handbasket because Ford can't turn out a decent Camry fighter. Don't bring up the money situation either, Cali is an artifically inflated real-estate market, in the rest of the normal part of the US, housing costs have risen in step with other costs, not widly outpaced them. Minted money isn't worth what it is coined with because the prices of metal world-wide have gone up and become highly unstable in recent years. Other governments are facing the same challenge.

 

twinky64

New member
Sadly, our economy is going down the drain because we are outsourcing our labor to across seas and now we are outsourcing design engineers, the very brains that once made this country great.

One could argue that its free trade, but what's free trade if we do not get any profit back from what the outsourced company gains? Those companies leaving the country is no longer for the idea "of king and country". I think a lot of people are not very happy with our country currently and that is just the catalyst for speeding this outsourcing up. Lately, the press has announced that unemployment has gone down and more jobs are made. But one must ask, what type of job, is it strawberry picking or working at mcdonalds?

Taiwan, according to my chinese friend's dad (who works in import export in taiwan and USA), said that they make laptops/notebooks the cheapest per money value than anywhere else. China is now using child labor and exploitation to make cost per item lower. Does this sound familiar?, something like the industrial revolution? Hell, the USA became great at first for doing the exact same thing, child labor and 16 hour days; England did so as well. Now, people are looking towards China to be the next greatest world economy as the empire of USA is slowly dwindling. I attend CSUF and took an economics class, capitolism is excellent IF AND ONLY IF you check and balance the citizens participating in it. Right now, its not really checked. I'm not saying I'm a democrat nor a republican, I'm independent, screw extremeties.

There are signs everywhere, the cost to make a penny costs more than one cent for the us mint to make. The value of the dollar is slowly losing its value. The average home is now $350,000 in california alone. Our pennies are not pure copper, they are zinc cored copper coated. I know, i did an experiment in chemistry last year. China is probably going to go up in terms of economic power, and we are slowly going down if not, flat-lining financially as a country. I think its China that is manufacturing the wings for Boeing to make our aircraft. Our own secret designs that make/made this country so great and staying on top of things is now being viewed by the world.

So it comes to Japan making one of the best automobiles in the world. We INVENTED cars and I would think after a century of planning, we would be on top, i mean, we invented the thing. Now we make some of the crappiest cars around. Some dodge hemi pickup model (I forget which one, I think its the Ram) required you to change the fuel injectors after 30,000 miles. That is not what the normal consumer wants. Nobody wants to buy a vehicle so their wife can be stranded on the 101 freeway because the car has a crappy lifespan or dependability. Geesh, america needs to get their act together. Cars are going to become more and more computer based and quite frankly, asia (ie. china and japan) has that down pat. Meanwhile, China is popping out engineers like rabbits compared to the US. You can argue that they have more engineers but they've always had more engineers, they've always had more people, and we always have come out the most technologically advanced............until now. If we cannot make cars, it makes me wonder what we really are capable of doing. Waoh
We can build good cars here, Toyota and Honda do it everyday. It isn't the American worker, designer, or engineer that makes Chevys and Fords crapboxes when compared to Toyotas and Hondas. It is the culture of corporate greed and the fact that they let accountants make decisions that they aren't qualified to make. America can still build the finest products around, we just can't do it as cheaply as other countries. There are products we make here everyday that the rest of the world envies because of their quality. I bet you didn't know that we used to build Rolls Royces here because we could do it better than they could at Crewe. I also bet you didn't know that Jaguars were terribly unreliable cars until Ford Engineers went to Coventry and taught the British Jag engineers how to design a proper electrical system. We are undergoing a revolution from an industrial economy to a service based one. That was unavoidable. We need to focus on how to keep the manufacturing base we have and expand our service base. Toyota and Honda are going to be key players in keeping manufacturing here. As GM and Ford outsource more and more and move plants to Mexico, Toyota and Honda are building new plants here and trying to source as many parts as possible from US suppliers. Toyota and Honda have faith in the United States, it is the "American" companies like GM and Ford who don't.

Don't claim we can't build a car and that the country is going to hell in a handbasket because Ford can't turn out a decent Camry fighter. Don't bring up the money situation either, Cali is an artifically inflated real-estate market, in the rest of the normal part of the US, housing costs have risen in step with other costs, not widly outpaced them. Minted money isn't worth what it is coined with because the prices of metal world-wide have gone up and become highly unstable in recent years. Other governments are facing the same challenge.
Brought up some things I didn't know about the automobile industry, thank you. Cali is the 5th biggest profiter in the world. Economically, california can become its own country. Impractical though and highly dangerous, but possible. I don't know this, but did toyota, in the 60's and 70's, manufacture their cars in the US? Did the US engineer toyota at first? How about now, is it Japan (toyota) or US designing and engineering the toyotamobiles? If toyota, japanese engineers and designers, masterminded their products, then who are we as the US? If all we do is build something for somebody, where is the quality that the US can design something good? I suppose my point is, we cannot credit america for making the "blueprints" on toyota products properly. It is the engineers and designers that have really borne their amazing product. What I have been reading is that Japan builds better corollas than Amerca does. America builds better corollas than S. Africa does. But Japan should recieve kudos on the spawning of the corolla.

I hope I didn't offend anybody.

 
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the99contour

New member
Brought up some things I didn't know about the automobile industry, thank you. Cali is the 5th biggest profiter in the world. Economically, california can become its own country. Impractical though and highly dangerous, but possible. I don't know this, but did toyota, in the 60's and 70's, manufacture their cars in the US? Did the US engineer toyota at first? How about now, is it Japan (toyota) or US designing and engineering the toyotamobiles? If toyota, japanese engineers and designers, masterminded their products, then who are we as the US? If all we do is build something for somebody, where is the quality that the US can design something good?
Nissan was the first Japanese company to manufacturer in the US. They opened a plant in Tennessee to build a small truck in the late 1970's. Those trucks were tracked by J.D. Power to a greater extent than any other vehicle in history and those US made Nissan trucks were found to be of higher initial quality and more reliable than the Japanese made trucks. Toyota and Honda both brought plants here in the 1980's when Congress threatned to slap an import tarriff on imported cars form Japan. Toyota has plants in Indiana, Kentucky, and Cali. Honda has plants in Ohio and is going to build one in Indiana.

Toyota currently designs and engineers some cars in the United States in Dearborn, Michigan. They employ American engineers and designers and some of the supervision is Japanese. Honda does something similar. So, in some Toyotas you have a car designed and engineered by an American, built buy an American with parts made by an American. Compare this to some Ford cars where the car was engineered in Germany, assembled in Mexico and built with parts from all countries of the world except the US. Which is more American?

Even if Toyota had a totally Japanese designed and engineered car that we just built, we have other totally American built, designed and engineered cars that are excellent. Take the Chevrolet Corvette, the Dodge Viper, and the Ford GT as examples. The Ford GT can easily out-perform Ferarris, Lambos, and other hand-built Italian "supercars".

I still maintain that Americans can build good cars, but the corporate culture of GM and Ford nowadays doesn't produce a good idea. Without a good idea, you can't build a good car. If the people at GM and Ford let the engineers and designers loose, Ford and GM could build Camry like cars that were better in every way. If they can turn things around they may end up being more like Toyota than you'll believe.

Did you know that when they first brought Toyotas into this country the phrase "made in Japan" made people laugh. Japanese products were pure crap, they broke easily, they weren't attractive or appealing, and cars were the worst products they made. Toyota brought their first car here in the 1960's and had this big event where they were going to drive the car from Philly to Cali. The car broke down before it got out of Philly. People laughed, Toyota was embarassed. Japanese car companies tried and tried and tried and finally got it right. Then they built a good reputation, and things took off.

If Ford and GM will start building competitive cars, and will focus on quality and reliability instead of penny pinching, they will be able to shake the perception that American cars are inferior to Japanese ones. As it is right now, the gap between the reliability (but not quality) between Japanese cars and American cars is a lot smaller than Toyota and Honda would like you to believe. All they have to do is get it right once and they'll pick back up.

 

twinky64

New member
Very good points contour. The things about american supercars compared to the euro supercars is something that I disagree with you. Yes in the 60's the gt was known as the ferrari killer but now, I don't think that is the case. I don't know how old you are, but my father, born in '54 grew up knowing the slogan "fix or repair daily" and that phrase doesn't surface for no reason. hmmmm.

Well, thank you for this very interesting conversation. I hope I didn't offend you in any way.


 

NILLINOIS

New member
Yes, 'Made in Japan' was a euphamism for junk after WW2..right up until the early 60's..when an upstart company called Sony began producing high-quality miniature transister radios at lower cost than the main competitors at the time ( Regency;TI and Zenith )


All of Japan's quality control management systems and philosophy was actually introduced into Japan by an American Statistician PhD named Dr. W. Edwards Demings, who taught Japanese engineers and business leaders statistical process control and concepts of quality.

In the 1970s, Dr. Deming's philosophy was summarized by some of his Japanese proponents with the following:

(a) When people and organizations focus primarily on quality, quality defined by the following ratio:

Quality = Result of All Work Effort / Costs

then quality tends to increase and costs fall over time.

(
However, when people and organizations focus primarily on COST, then costs tend to rise and quality declines over time ( sounds like a US corporation, doesn't it? ).

This inverse relationship seems like a paradox, but in my view, it means:

Produce low quality, and NOBODY will want your product at any price,

Produce high quality, and EVERYONE will want your product at any price

Here is a speech he gave to 80% of Japan's corporate leaders in 1950:

http://deming.eng.clemson.edu/pub/den/deming_1950.htm

There are some great books about Deming's life, from incredible poverty in his childhood, to the Deming Institute and Deming Prize.

In 1993, Dr. Deming published his final book The New Economics for Industry, Government, Education, which included the System of Profound Knowledge™ and the 14 Points for Management. It also contained educational concepts involving group-based teaching without grades, as well as management without individual merit or performance reviews.

One of Deming's best quotes during an interview:

"Don't blame the Japanese" for the U.S. trade deficit--"we did it to ourselves."

 

c2105026

New member
Australian auto industry is facing a similar crisis than america is, but it is now much more severe. In the 1970s we built all models of ford, holden and chrysler. In addition, we built VWs, renaults, volvos and minis. There was a GM factory in each capital city.

What happened? Our tariffs on imported cars in the 1970s was a whopping 55%. Making cars here was very profitable. The factories could pump out any piece of poo and call it a car. From the 1980s tariffs slowly started to drop to stimulate local R&D or something like that. By the mid-80s the euro brands had left. In 1992 nissan went broke. By 1995, all that remained was corolla, camry, commodore, nova, magna and falcon. In 1999 the corolla became fully imported. All the while, it is interesting to note that in 2006, a corolla costs only $500 more than it did in 1997, whilst the big local heros (commodore, falcon) have gone up by $5,000 or more. The 55% import on tariffs has come down to 5% or so.

Now, at least the US builds compacts - we no longer do that. All compacts are imported. In the last year, big car sales are down 20%, compacts are up 20%. With petrol remaining dear for the short-term future at least, we are very vulnerable. GM has spent 1 billion on the new commodore; mitsubishi's hopes are riding on the now flailing 380. I reckon 2020 ALL cars sold in OZ are imported.

 

the99contour

New member
Very good points contour. The things about american supercars compared to the euro supercars is something that I disagree with you. Yes in the 60's the gt was known as the ferrari killer but now, I don't think that is the case. I don't know how old you are, but my father, born in '54 grew up knowing the slogan "fix or repair daily" and that phrase doesn't surface for no reason. hmmmm. Well, thank you for this very interesting conversation. I hope I didn't offend you in any way.
My Dad worked for Ford when I was younger, we owned 20 some Ford cars, and so I am used to hearing Fix or Repair Daily. However, did you ever consider that some reputations are undeserved. I'm not claiming that Toyota and Ford are equally reliable, but I am claiming that several makes like Mercedes Benz and BMW are less reliable than Ford and nobody made some slogan for BMW concerning its lack of reliability.

 

twinky64

New member
Very good points contour. The things about american supercars compared to the euro supercars is something that I disagree with you. Yes in the 60's the gt was known as the ferrari killer but now, I don't think that is the case. I don't know how old you are, but my father, born in '54 grew up knowing the slogan "fix or repair daily" and that phrase doesn't surface for no reason. hmmmm.

Well, thank you for this very interesting conversation. I hope I didn't offend you in any way.
My Dad worked for Ford when I was younger, we owned 20 some Ford cars, and so I am used to hearing Fix or Repair Daily. However, did you ever consider that some reputations are undeserved. I'm not claiming that Toyota and Ford are equally reliable, but I am claiming that several makes like Mercedes Benz and BMW are less reliable than Ford and nobody made some slogan for BMW concerning its lack of reliability.
I differ. Well at least the modern BMW's have excellent reliability even back in 98

http://www.epinions.com/auto_Make-1998_BMW...isplay_~reviews

anyone got an article or something stating whats claimed in that 1st post?
I think this might help

http://www.autoweb.com/content/shared/arti...cle_id_int/1969

 

the99contour

New member
Very good points contour. The things about american supercars compared to the euro supercars is something that I disagree with you. Yes in the 60's the gt was known as the ferrari killer but now, I don't think that is the case. I don't know how old you are, but my father, born in '54 grew up knowing the slogan "fix or repair daily" and that phrase doesn't surface for no reason. hmmmm.

Well, thank you for this very interesting conversation. I hope I didn't offend you in any way.
My Dad worked for Ford when I was younger, we owned 20 some Ford cars, and so I am used to hearing Fix or Repair Daily. However, did you ever consider that some reputations are undeserved. I'm not claiming that Toyota and Ford are equally reliable, but I am claiming that several makes like Mercedes Benz and BMW are less reliable than Ford and nobody made some slogan for BMW concerning its lack of reliability.
I differ. Well at least the modern BMW's have excellent reliability even back in 98

http://www.epinions.com/auto_Make-1998_BMW...isplay_~reviews

anyone got an article or something stating whats claimed in that 1st post?
I think this might help

http://www.autoweb.com/content/shared/arti...cle_id_int/1969
Epinions, come on Twinky. That isn't a good place to go for reliability, it is too subjective because it only rates reliability according to peoples opinions. Find me some objective source like Consumer Reports that rates problems per 100 cars. My grandfather thinks his 2000 Taurus is a reliable car even though it has had 5 repairs in the last 3 years. I call that poor reliability, as the Rav4 my mother owned for 3 years had not one repair. Which one of us is right about what reliability is? Both of us may post on Epinions on the same car and I may call my BMW reliable because it only has 1 repair and he may call his reliable because it only had 14. See the problem there buddy?

 

Larry Roll

New member
There can be no doubt that Fords have major reliability issues. I purchased a 1991 Ford Taurus brand new. Before it had 5,000 miles on it, the brake master cylinder had been replaced. The front brakes were replaced completely before 20,000 miles. The transmission was replaced under extended warranty at 55,000 miles. The alternator, water pump, numerous serpentine belts, a power steering pump, rear brakes (including new drums) the exhaust system (back of the muffler/CAT), were all replaced, some of these items more than once. There were persistent cooling system problems, and it always seemed to run hot. The cruise control developed an impossible-to-diagnose intermittancy problem at approximately 80,000 miles. The front headlamps were prone to blow at any time and any place, I always had to keep two replacement 9004 lamps in the glove box at all times. Heck -- I even had to have the transmission shift lever replaced!

I kept that Taurus for 9 years and 134,000 miles, and traded it for $300 on my first Corolla - a 2001 LE 5-speed. I can't help but to believe that if I'd bought a '91 Corolla instead of the Taurus, I'd probably still be driving it, and wouldn't have had anywhere near the same number and types of repairs. I'm done with U.S. name-brand automobiles forever.

As far as I'm concerned, if Ford, GM, and Chrysler went out of business tomorrow, it would serve them right! It is a total mystery to me why people still buy their unreliable junk.

 

duke

New member
I can't knock Chev too much , I had a S10 pickup that I put 198,00 miles on before I sold it (now being used as delivery truck) and only had to do the normal maint things to it. I bought a new 03 Corolla LE and love it. Only flaw was plastic strip on driver side roof that wanted to buckle up now and then...but dealer ordered new one and installed it. I think as gas prices go up you will see more Corollas ( Hondas) on the road ... it may take awhile but they got gas prices up and it's not going to go away. I don't see that many Toyotas & Hondas since I moved back to Iowa from California (lots there) ...but it will only be a matter of time when people get tired of paying big bucks for gas for their SUVs etc and wise up. My Corolla gets me from point A to point B and in reasonable comfort and good on gas....not sure why anyone would want to drive anything else....maybe a Hybred , but the higher price will never be recouped ...real time milage is not that much better than the Corolla ...and if you ever have to replace the batteries...OH BOY !

 

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