I do.

Have you accepted it as "normal"? What have you done about and and what is your opinion?

 

 

I've accepted it since an independent mechanic told me the revving won't hurt the engine and has been seen on other year Corollas.

Doesn't do it all the time (but did do it this morning). Sounds like a computer programming deficiency. Dealer said that they really have no fix but it's not a problem that you need to worry about. At least they were honest. This is a great dealer that just replaced both of my front seat belts on warranty for slow retraction. The previous dealer said it was normal. My service advisor is a sweet southern girl who treats me with respect. I've told her boss that too.

After having to endure a first year GM Model (2000 Saturn L series), the warmup glitch in my 2003 Corolla CE 5 speed isn't that much of an issue. I'd certainly never consider getting rid of it for that reason.

For anyone concerned about reduced resale value, I have a simple solution. Sell or trade the car in the Summer.

For anyone concerned about reduced resale value, I have a simple solution. Sell or trade the car in the Summer.

 

And what would you do if that un-suspecting buyer of your car takes it the following winter to some hack mechanic who runs up a bill for hundreds of dollars without producing any results and then tells the buyer that that kind of problem must have been always present since new?

For anyone concerned about reduced resale value, I have a simple solution. Sell or trade the car in the Summer.

 

And what would you do if that un-suspecting buyer of your car takes it the following winter to some hack mechanic who runs up a bill for hundreds of dollars without producing any results and then tells the buyer that that kind of problem must have been always present since new?

That unsuspecting buyer has just put out a lot of money for a problem that can't be fixed. Nothing can be done except chalk it up to a learning experience. Some people have the same problem and have just decided to accept it and drive the car anyway. It is your choice - keep sinking more money into it in an attempt at getting it changed, sell or trade-in the car for another, or accept it as it is and continue to drive it.

 

 

For anyone concerned about reduced resale value, I have a simple solution. Sell or trade the car in the Summer.

 

And what would you do if that unsuspecting buyer of your car takes it the following winter to some hack mechanic who runs up a bill for hundreds of dollars without producing any results and then tells the buyer that that kind of problem must have been always present since new?

That unsuspecting buyer has just put out a lot of money for a problem that can't be fixed. Nothing can be done except chalk it up to a learning experience. Some people have the same problem and have just decided to accept it and drive the car anyway. It is your choice - keep sinking more money into it in an attempt at getting it changed, sell or trade-in the car for another, or accept it as it is and continue to drive it.

 

Sure, that unsuspecting buyer has just put out a lot of money for a problem that can't be fixed. My point is that many of us with this same problem had the benefit of a warranty to finance the wild goose chase that our dealerships embarked on. If I had bought my car second-hand outside of warranty, I too might have payed the typical $500 in mechanic costs from out my pocket. If, at some further point down the road, I were to then discover that the person who sold me this lemon had already known about the noise, then I would be going to court to seek a cancellation of the sales contract and a refund of the money that I might have wasted on my fruitless attempt to fix the problem

The worst case senario for Bob Levine is that he sells his car in the summer to someone who is like me and Bob has to face the following winter all the trouble that such a buyer would be throwing back in his face.

My questions to Bob Levine are: 1) what is his plan B in case that senario were to come true and 2) why does he think he is so immune to any negative consequence that can arise from failing to disclose?

If Toyota indicates the vehicle is performing as designed, there is no deception in selling it without bringing up the anomaly in the cold start idle. Toyota is the authority. If they say it won't hurt the engine, then I can go with that especially since this was also confirmed by a reputable independent mechanic who specializes in driveability problems and hosts a weekly local radio show.

I normally trade to a dealer, so the dealer should understand the issue if the buyer questions it.

I pride myself on being honest to a fault even when trading to dealers. In this case, there is no problem as well as no solution according to Toyota. On second thought, it might be best to mention it and explain that it's normal so the buyer doesn't go off on a wild goose chase using mechanics unfamiliar with Toyotas. That's a good suggestion, and it will be followed whenever it's time to trade or sell my CE.

If Toyota indicates the vehicle is performing as designed, there is no deception in selling it without bringing up the anomaly in the cold start idle. Toyota is the authority. If they say it won't hurt the engine, then I can go with that especially since this was also confirmed by a reputable independent mechanic who specializes in driveability problems and hosts a weekly local radio show.

I normally trade to a dealer, so the dealer should understand the issue if the buyer questions it.

I pride myself on being honest to a fault even when trading to dealers. In this case, there is no problem as well as no solution according to Toyota. On second thought, it might be best to mention it and explain that it's normal so the buyer doesn't go off on a wild goose chase using mechanics unfamiliar with Toyotas. That's a good suggestion, and it will be followed whenever it's time to trade or sell my CE.

Bob,

You have a great attitude.

With a dealer, I see no need to disclose other then to prevent the ultimate owner of your car (who will acquire it via your dealer) from spending money unnecessarily. Even if you don't tell the dealer, it will still be the dealer who will be on the hook. What you are doing is a courtesy to the dealer. Your disclosure will save the dealer and his customer some potential hardship.

For the rest of us who need to sell our noisy cars privately, disclosure becomes a thorny issue. If we disclose, we may drive away buyers or have to reduce our selling price because the buyer will perceive a risk even if unjustified. And if we don't disclose, we may have to pay compensation because the buyer may claim that the noisy car has a lower market value than a quiet one. My surveys show that over 95% of forum members find this noise objectionable. There are a few understanding exceptions with a high threshold of tolerence.

Thanks for your comments.

I always thought the dealers didn't really care what your trade-in car was like as long as they got a sale. I believed they do a thorough checkout and detailing of the used car prior to reselling it. If they found one that had this problem and it is considered normal, I don't think they would tell the unsuspecting prospective buyer.

Montreal has some very good points about selling privately and disclosing things. There are numerous cases of people selling cars with problems and not disclosing them prior to sale. The buyer always has the option of having a mechanic check ot the car prior to purchase. Never-the-less, used cars have caused quite a lot of heated disagreements and courts are full of people wanting their money back for bad cars (lemons) that they have bought. I agree that the majority of people would like to know everything before they buy (good and bad) to make a purchase decision. Naturally any item would be a bargaining item during the negotiation of a sale. Objectionable noises would not be a positive selling point.

I know I'm new to the forums, but I've read this a zillion places on the internet and I'm amazed at how NO ONE understands, why, what, and how it is going on. (Note this is MY theory, and a very valid one).

So here it is:

My 04 Corolla does the exact same thing, always has since winter one.

What it does: (just like the video shows).

-When it is cool out, say below 50 or so, idle RPM's are higher than normal.

-If cold enough (probably 40 or colder) the engine will idle high enough to trip a high idle internal ecu code, which causes the ecu to drop back (temporarly) to an open loop mode.

*That's why you see the engine rpm drop down to 1100 or so*

-The ecu performs a quick check, when everything is okay (which it is), it switches back to a close loop cycle. This causes the engine to start to idle back up. The cycle continues until the engine coolant is at a warmish temp.

-Once engine is up to temp, everything idles like normal.

So from that, the system is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Hence, it is not "broken".

How does it do it?

-My 04 Corolla has a manual idle speed adjustment screw on the throttle body

*This only adjusts the minimum idle speed at a hot engine temp*

-More air is needed to adjust the idle speed

-The only part (that I know of) that the computer can control to get more fresh air into the engine is the IAC (idle air control, or idle air conditioning)

*The idea is the A/C puts excess load on the engine, which could stall you at low RPM, so this opens when the A/C engages and keeps the rpms up to compensate.*

-When the engine temp is low, the IAC is used to help the engine warm up faster by increasing the idle speed.

Why would you want to do this?

-Emissions

-A hot engine produces less emissions than a cold one, and more specifically a hot catalytic converter.

-A higher rpm heats the engine and cat more quickly, and thus lowers the emission output of the engine.

-In theory it is should be a good idea, but apparently the implementation was not 100% correct.

-Something tells me the ecu is using a feedback loop (probably a PID compensation design) to calculate how much the IAC needs to open. The feedback point the ecu wants is not being met, so it opens the valve more and more and more. Much like a old mechanical choke on a carb (except here you just ended up with a car idling at 2800 rpms until it was hot).

Now that is my theory, it is perfectly valid, and I believe correct. Especially because of the changes to the 05 power output (lower than 04, indicating a redesign of the fuel/air map). This was probably figured out by Toyota after the 04 hit the market, and a redo of the ecu software was probably not a good investment (since this causes no damage to the car).

I'm sorry to hear the dealer, and more specifically the master techs, treated you this way. But I believe both sides are right. I can see how Toyota says there is nothing "wrong" with the car, it is operating as they expected it to. And how you as the consumer see it as, "No other car I know of does this." Frankly I think Toyota should have came up with a 10$ part to add onto the coolant temp sensor to lie to the ecu and say the car is never below 50F. The people who see it as a problem are happy, and the people like me who see it as it is don't care.

Courtney

04 Corolla @ 70k miles all work done myself.

We are officially out. We are trading BOTH of our Corollas in for Hondas or something else. We went back to where we originally bought the cars from and it wasnt pretty. I cant believe the way we were treated. The service manager wouldnt even answer any questions face to face regarding the situation. He all but challenged me to a fight on the parking lot. This guy was textbook definition "Corporate Richard Sucker". How is it that Toyota screws up on a design issue and it becomes completely MY fault, responsability and problem? They might as well not come with a warranty at all. Toyota could NOT have handled this whole situation any more poorly then they did. We were lied to from every single level. My wife and I are really in awe. Words cant describe my frustration and disapointment. This could of been handle WAY better. I love how these cowards broke the news to me also, over a conference call-- pansies. They had the "We already got your money, why should we care?" attitude. They didnt even have the ballzies to tell me to my face. My wife is almost heartbroken. Time to start over. There is NO WAY to patch things over. I cant believe they got me for as much money as they did.

 

 

Can anyone give me good some sites to help research new vehicles? Any suggestions on what we should get? My wife is looking at Accords.

 

This is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. You are going to sell a perfectly good, well maintained '05 because you are mad at Toyota because they can't fix a relatively minor problem on the '04. Take a deep breath and think. Why lose a ton of money trading two cars instead of just using them as is? Toyota already made their money when they sold you the cars. They don't lose a dime if you trade them, but you will. If you want to buy a Honda next time when the Corollas are worn out , fine, do it. But don't take a bath on these two cars because you are reacting with emotion instead of common sense.

Interesting video. personnally I have never started my car and sat there just watching the idle go up and down. I usually let it warm up whil I write down my date and mileage, then I drive off. I would think it unusual but not too bad a problem. It is not stalling and not increasing the idle beyond control. It seems like a small fluctuation and like many have said is probably your idle control portion of the electronics. I don't know that it would have any significant affect on your gas mileage. If the dealer can't or is unable to fix it, what can you do? People are still living and driving with their Corollas with the same problem. I guess they have settled on imperfection.

 

The ECU flash fixed it on my 03.