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Next New Car: To Be Or Not To Be Toyota

If you had to buy a new car in the next couple of months, would you choose Toyota?  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. If you had to buy a new car in the next couple of months, would you choose Toyota?

    • Yes, Toyota still makes the most reliable vehicle out there for the money
    • No, Toyota has sat too long on its reputation, competitors are making better vehicles for your hard
    • Maybe, depends if they start stepping up their vehicle's quality, go back to what made Toyota le




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Bull6791

Fish

I have questions about UOA.

I want to run a sample on my car after the next oil change. What would be the better way to go.

1. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 3000

2. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 5000.

3. Try Synthetic oil for the first time and see how it does and sample after 5000 miles.

Fish in about 800 miles when I do my oil change this will be the first time I ever took a used oil sample. The lab is Blackstone.

How do you get the stuff for oil sampling and how much does it cost.

If you think I should go the synthetic route I would probably try Mobil and Valvoline synpower oil. How good are these oils.

Thanks Frank.

corollamike

Love my '09 Corolla S, which is my first Toyota, but have to say I'm not too impressed with the 11th generation version. If I had to choose a Toyota, it would be the Camry or RAV4. But if I didn't have to choose a Toyota, I'd go with either the Hyundai Elantra GT, Mazda 3, Mazda CX5, Mazda 6, Subaru XV Crosstrek, or Subaru Legacy.

Toyota have forgotten what made me a first-tiime Corolla owner (and I'm not kidding): an upper glove box, spare change coin box, a carry tray in the trunk for a gallon of milk (the salesman made a particular point about that), two--count 'em--two 12 V outlets, room in the back for me to "sit behind myself", and 40+ mpg highway.

Okay, the new 'Rolla will prolly achieve the same mileage, but has anyone sat in the back of one? Not only is there less head room, your head is right up against the top of the door. Really, there isn't as much room in the back as Toyota want us to believe.

But since my Corolla's mileage is only a smidgen over 36,000, I shouldn't have to look for a new car anytime soon. Will Toyota have their act together by then? Who knows.

echarleswhyte

my 2013 Rolla S is the first Toyota product I have owned. I am satisfied with the choice and to be honest initially I chose to purchase it was because it was a good deal at the time and it has the reputation to outlast me. That being said I do believe Toyota has relied to much on there reputation up until several years ago. Mind you only in North America as the 10th gen Corolla came standard with a 6 speed manual and in some markets with CVT (I do believe). Of course in other countries the corolla is more up market than in the US, even in Canada the Corolla was available with features that were not available in the US. I think Toyota is starting to turn the tide and are now realizing they have to offer more and modern tech to compete. The Camry is refreshed for 2015 and while the new Corolla is great I do agree the missed one thing on it. While I'm not a boy racer I find the 9th and 10th Corolla S and XRS were good lookers that were set apart from the other models (side skirt, spoiler ETC) I think it was done tastefully. The new S is no different than the others. Lip spoiler? that is the same as the ECO one. the only difference is the front bumper cover. I think the S should have a skirt package like previous and I think it would be wise for Toyota to bring back the XRS. All that said I have no issues with my '13 and will not trade it in as I am a sensible guy and if it aint broke then I don't need to fix it. If I were in the market for a new vehicle.........I would consider the new rolla but I am really liking the new Nissan Micra (sorry guys that is Canadian only)

Fish

I have questions about UOA.

I want to run a sample on my car after the next oil change. What would be the better way to go.

1. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 3000

2. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 5000.

3. Try Synthetic oil for the first time and see how it does and sample after 5000 miles.

Fish in about 800 miles when I do my oil change this will be the first time I ever took a used oil sample. The lab is Blackstone.

How do you get the stuff for oil sampling and how much does it cost.

If you think I should go the synthetic route I would probably try Mobil and Valvoline synpower oil. How good are these oils.

Thanks Frank.

This for the Subaru, Corolla or Camry?

In any case, push it to 5000 miles and sample, no real sense samplling sooner other than to see how the additive package gets depleted. Doesn't matter if it is conventional or synthetic - just pick the one you want to use down the road. If you are unsure of what to run and using this as the metric to pick either conventional or synthetic - then you'll have to sample both types at 5K.

Mobil and Synpower are perfectly fine to try out. Lots of good synthetic and conventional motor oil there - just pick on that you can easily get, goes on sale often.

UOA from Blackstone - go to their site and order a free sampling kit. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

When it get it, you should see two plastic screw top containers, label, order slip and a baggie. When you are draining the oil, left the first couple of seconds flow out to the drain bucket and the stream slows a bit - stick the clear container in the stream until you get a decent amount of oil, pull it out, cap it - clean it up, stick in a baggie, stick in other container - label, fill out the order sheet, stuff it all into the container, mail it out. Sampling procedure is explained in detail on their site: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas-sampling.php

Tests cost $25 for the standard analysis, TBN test is a separate charge - $10. So total cost will be $35 + postage. If you get a 6-pak prepaid testing kit - it drops the price down to $20 for a standard analysis.

Love my '09 Corolla S, which is my first Toyota, but have to say I'm not too impressed with the 11th generation version. If I had to choose a Toyota, it would be the Camry or RAV4. But if I didn't have to choose a Toyota, I'd go with either the Hyundai Elantra GT, Mazda 3, Mazda CX5, Mazda 6, Subaru XV Crosstrek, or Subaru Legacy.

Toyota have forgotten what made me a first-tiime Corolla owner (and I'm not kidding): an upper glove box, spare change coin box, a carry tray in the trunk for a gallon of milk (the salesman made a particular point about that), two--count 'em--two 12 V outlets, room in the back for me to "sit behind myself", and 40+ mpg highway.

Okay, the new 'Rolla will prolly achieve the same mileage, but has anyone sat in the back of one? Not only is there less head room, your head is right up against the top of the door. Really, there isn't as much room in the back as Toyota want us to believe.

But since my Corolla's mileage is only a smidgen over 36,000, I shouldn't have to look for a new car anytime soon. Will Toyota have their act together by then? Who knows.

Toyota is planning to eventually axe the Corolla chassis, as it kept growing in size and may eventually compete against its stable mate, the Camry. From what I've read - the new Corollas will be based on the current Yaris platform. That's why I'm keeping my 8th gen - the front seats have more leg room than the 9th gen Corollas. On the 2nd gen Matrix (10th gen Corolla platform) - they increased the amount of room significantly. But surprisingly, our 2009 Matrix XRS feels a lot smaller than our 2003 Matrix XRS, even though dimensionally they are almost the same.

I agree - the little storage features seem to disappear on the new models. Hooks and extra storage removed to make way for more electronic content. Fortunatley, the Rav4 doesn't disaapoint with storage. Lots of covered bins and because we got the 3rd row delete option - we have a huge covered storage well to stuff pretty much anything we want.

my 2013 Rolla S is the first Toyota product I have owned. I am satisfied with the choice and to be honest initially I chose to purchase it was because it was a good deal at the time and it has the reputation to outlast me. That being said I do believe Toyota has relied to much on there reputation up until several years ago. Mind you only in North America as the 10th gen Corolla came standard with a 6 speed manual and in some markets with CVT (I do believe). Of course in other countries the corolla is more up market than in the US, even in Canada the Corolla was available with features that were not available in the US. I think Toyota is starting to turn the tide and are now realizing they have to offer more and modern tech to compete. The Camry is refreshed for 2015 and while the new Corolla is great I do agree the missed one thing on it. While I'm not a boy racer I find the 9th and 10th Corolla S and XRS were good lookers that were set apart from the other models (side skirt, spoiler ETC) I think it was done tastefully. The new S is no different than the others. Lip spoiler? that is the same as the ECO one. the only difference is the front bumper cover. I think the S should have a skirt package like previous and I think it would be wise for Toyota to bring back the XRS. All that said I have no issues with my '13 and will not trade it in as I am a sensible guy and if it aint broke then I don't need to fix it. If I were in the market for a new vehicle.........I would consider the new rolla but I am really liking the new Nissan Micra (sorry guys that is Canadian only)

You hit it right on the head with Toyota styling. Toyota styling is like a newly constructed home - muted, non-offensive colors and trim. Being conservative in nature, Toyota generally doesn't stray too far from their original design - if you look at their reviews, conservative, non-offensive, clean are words that are most mentioned. But that can also be a two way sword - some people may say the styling is generic, boring, bland, uninspired - others want something that stands out. If Toyota reliabily was a strong as they used to be - then I'd say styling would be easily be a non-issue. But given some spotty quality control issues, their competition is closing fast with as reliable hardware with much stronger styling/performance for the same amount or even less money. Maybe with the new Toyota leadship - they will push to got back to Toyota's roots of reliability + add some leading edge styling.

Bull6791

Fish

I ordered sampling kit. I was going to change my oil. Then at the end I was going to take sample container and dip it into used oil container to get sample. Why do they not want you to do it that way and rather get it as oil is draining put.

Fish should I also do TAN TEST

FRANK

^^^ Start a new topic - this is getting way off the main topic.

Bull6791

Fish

Sorry for going of topic. Yes I did start a new topic. I put it in corolla preferences.

Frank.

corollamike

 

Love my '09 Corolla S, which is my first Toyota, but have to say I'm not too impressed with the 11th generation version. If I had to choose a Toyota, it would be the Camry or RAV4. But if I didn't have to choose a Toyota, I'd go with either the Hyundai Elantra GT, Mazda 3, Mazda CX5, Mazda 6, Subaru XV Crosstrek, or Subaru Legacy.

Toyota have forgotten what made me a first-tiime Corolla owner (and I'm not kidding): an upper glove box, spare change coin box, a carry tray in the trunk for a gallon of milk (the salesman made a particular point about that), two--count 'em--two 12 V outlets, room in the back for me to "sit behind myself", and 40+ mpg highway.

Okay, the new 'Rolla will prolly achieve the same mileage, but has anyone sat in the back of one? Not only is there less head room, your head is right up against the top of the door. Really, there isn't as much room in the back as Toyota want us to believe.

But since my Corolla's mileage is only a smidgen over 36,000, I shouldn't have to look for a new car anytime soon. Will Toyota have their act together by then? Who knows.

Toyota is planning to eventually axe the Corolla chassis, as it kept growing in size and may eventually compete against its stable mate, the Camry. From what I've read - the new Corollas will be based on the current Yaris platform. That's why I'm keeping my 8th gen - the front seats have more leg room than the 9th gen Corollas. On the 2nd gen Matrix (10th gen Corolla platform) - they increased the amount of room significantly. But surprisingly, our 2009 Matrix XRS feels a lot smaller than our 2003 Matrix XRS, even though dimensionally they are almost the same.

I agree - the little storage features seem to disappear on the new models. Hooks and extra storage removed to make way for more electronic content. Fortunatley, the Rav4 doesn't disaapoint with storage. Lots of covered bins and because we got the 3rd row delete option - we have a huge covered storage well to stuff pretty much anything we want.

Fish,

 

Yeah, I know Toyota downsized the Corolla Axio for the Japanese Domestic Market in response to government tax schemes. It's much smaller than the US model, yet retains thoughtful features like an upper glove box, flat rear floor, spare change storage, and more. Looks like a good little car; if they offered it here, I'm sure it would sell. But, it seems--at least to me--that Toyota believe Americans share a like mind when it comes to what we want in our vehicles. To me, it looks as though Hyundai and KIA are making a better "Corolla" than Toyota are. I've seen many more new Elantras than I have the new 'Rolla, that's for sure.

Word has it Scion will bring the Auris hatch here. That'd be pretty cool.

http://toyota.jp/corollaaxio/

Mike

Bull6791

Corolla Mike

I hope Toyota does not do away with the corolla. It is my most favorite car Toyota has. I have a 2005 corolla. I do not like the CAMRY at all. I will never own one. I like the Camry of the 90's. The ones that had the S engine and full tire in the trunk. When the Camry got rid of these 2 things I will never buy one again because it went down hill.

Frank

Fish,

Yeah, I know Toyota downsized the Corolla Axio for the Japanese Domestic Market in response to government tax schemes. It's much smaller than the US model, yet retains thoughtful features like an upper glove box, flat rear floor, spare change storage, and more. Looks like a good little car; if they offered it here, I'm sure it would sell. But, it seems--at least to me--that Toyota believe Americans share a like mind when it comes to what we want in our vehicles. To me, it looks as though Hyundai and KIA are making a better "Corolla" than Toyota are. I've seen many more new Elantras than I have the new 'Rolla, that's for sure.

Word has it Scion will bring the Auris hatch here. That'd be pretty cool.

http://toyota.jp/corollaaxio/

Mike

Yeah, waiting to see if Toyota/Scion brings back a hatchback into their lineup, since they axed the Matrix - that would be pretty awesome. I agree - hopefully Toyota starts to bring their JDM offerings to our domestic market, more of less undisturbed. There is a market for those cars here - maybe with the younger Toyoda manning the helm at Toyota, we may see it eventually.

corollamike

 

Fish,

Yeah, I know Toyota downsized the Corolla Axio for the Japanese Domestic Market in response to government tax schemes. It's much smaller than the US model, yet retains thoughtful features like an upper glove box, flat rear floor, spare change storage, and more. Looks like a good little car; if they offered it here, I'm sure it would sell. But, it seems--at least to me--that Toyota believe Americans share a like mind when it comes to what we want in our vehicles. To me, it looks as though Hyundai and KIA are making a better "Corolla" than Toyota are. I've seen many more new Elantras than I have the new 'Rolla, that's for sure.

Word has it Scion will bring the Auris hatch here. That'd be pretty cool.

http://toyota.jp/corollaaxio/

Mike

Yeah, waiting to see if Toyota/Scion brings back a hatchback into their lineup, since they axed the Matrix - that would be pretty awesome. I agree - hopefully Toyota starts to bring their JDM offerings to our domestic market, more of less undisturbed. There is a market for those cars here - maybe with the younger Toyoda manning the helm at Toyota, we may see it eventually.

Fish,

Was wondering, do you think this latest iteration of the Corolla could be a "transition" car from its current size to one built like the JDM version? The Axio is built on a Yaris platform. Details are at toyota.jp. Interesting what they did with the Axio. There is an overall sense of thoughtfulness to its design that I find lacking in what they're bringing over here.

corollamike

Corolla Mike

I hope Toyota does not do away with the corolla. It is my most favorite car Toyota has. I have a 2005 corolla. I do not like the CAMRY at all. I will never own one. I like the Camry of the 90's. The ones that had the S engine and full tire in the trunk. When the Camry got rid of these 2 things I will never buy one again because it went down hill.

Frank

Doubt they'll do away with it, although the Corolla is about the same size as the Camry from 20 years ago. C-segment cars have it a little rough these days in terms of just exactly what they are. They're not too little, but still, they rival their sedan siblings in size and content. And there's the rub: Buy a loaded Mazda 3 and you'll have more in it than you would a comparable Mazda 6. Same with the Corolla: A fully-decked-out one will cost about the same or more than a Camry SE. That's crazy! Same with Ford, Hyundai... you name 'em.

My wife had an '02 Focus, and she loved it. Wanna know what she really, really liked? It had a spare change box, which they deleted from her '09 Focus. She HATES that. As car buyers, what we want is thoughtfulness. Really, at the end of the day, we want a vehicle which seems like our buddy. And I think that was the charm with the Toyotas and Subarus and Datsuns (now Nissan) of yesteryear. In short, they've gotten a little "too big for their breeches", and have forgotten the core appeal of what they made a decade or so ago.

Fish,

Was wondering, do you think this latest iteration of the Corolla could be a "transition" car from its current size to one built like the JDM version? The Axio is built on a Yaris platform. Details are at toyota.jp. Interesting what they did with the Axio. There is an overall sense of thoughtfulness to its design that I find lacking in what they're bringing over here.

That is very possible. Toyota tends to be risk adverse - so if there are changes to be pushed down from corporate level, doing so with an transitional platform/model would be the less "shocking" to its conservative base.

Could the hint of TNGA - Toyota New Global Architecture.

Example this new plug in Hybrid concept from 2012:

Sort of Alfa-Romeo flavor in there. Not a bad thing for Toyota, considering its more conservative stock.

Design features are hit or miss, depending on the market you are catering to. Features that you or I might find useful or well laid out, others may find insignificant. But sometimes, you have to push these features out there and just see what happens. Sort of like our 1st gen Matrix - didn't really impress us at first, but once you see those seemingly minuscule features become quite handy, we eventually gres to love that little car. Example: rear seat backs are hard plastic, and flat - seems odd until you fold them - then they make a perfect flat load floor with the hatch lip almost level. Even more clever - are the smooth rubber strips imbedded in the plastic, shaped to let you slide stuff in but also prevents those items from shifting during transist. They coupled that with two rails that you can attach mini D-rings that can slide up and down the length of the load floor. With those and the side D-rings - I could secure even the most oddly shaped items in the back.

Hopefully with the Sciburu twins (Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ) and hints of a new Supra/Celica coming soon - we may see Toyota back on track.

corollamike

 

Fish,

Was wondering, do you think this latest iteration of the Corolla could be a "transition" car from its current size to one built like the JDM version? The Axio is built on a Yaris platform. Details are at toyota.jp. Interesting what they did with the Axio. There is an overall sense of thoughtfulness to its design that I find lacking in what they're bringing over here.

That is very possible. Toyota tends to be risk adverse - so if there are changes to be pushed down from corporate level, doing so with an transitional platform/model would be the less "shocking" to its conservative base.

Could the hint of TNGA - Toyota New Global Architecture.

Example this new plug in Hybrid concept from 2012:

Sort of Alfa-Romeo flavor in there. Not a bad thing for Toyota, considering its more conservative stock.

Design features are hit or miss, depending on the market you are catering to. Features that you or I might find useful or well laid out, others may find insignificant. But sometimes, you have to push these features out there and just see what happens. Sort of like our 1st gen Matrix - didn't really impress us at first, but once you see those seemingly minuscule features become quite handy, we eventually gres to love that little car. Example: rear seat backs are hard plastic, and flat - seems odd until you fold them - then they make a perfect flat load floor with the hatch lip almost level. Even more clever - are the smooth rubber strips imbedded in the plastic, shaped to let you slide stuff in but also prevents those items from shifting during transist. They coupled that with two rails that you can attach mini D-rings that can slide up and down the length of the load floor. With those and the side D-rings - I could secure even the most oddly shaped items in the back.

Hopefully with the Sciburu twins (Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ) and hints of a new Supra/Celica coming soon - we may see Toyota back on track.

So, Toyota can build 'em like no one else--with thoughtful design and ingenuity at every turn--or they can build 'em like everyone else, and make themselves just another car company.

Speaking of the Matrix, we looked at one when deciding on the Corolla. I remember that if you wanted alloys and other options that made it a very good car, it cost about as much as the larger RAV4. In a point I made with Bull, above, that at the moment, C-segment cars are sort of caught in the middle. They have options you can't get in a B-segment vehicle, but when optioned out, cost as much or more than a family-sized version.

I think it's interesting to note that while Ford, Hyundai, KIA, Mazda, and VW have hatch versions of their C-segment cars, Toyota have yet to make a suitable competitor. Sure, with the advent of the Auris here in the States, that's all well and good until you consider not all Toyota dealers are Scion dealers. So even still, Toyota, by their own hand, will limit their market share.

Hmm. Looks interesting - looks a lot longer than the previous generation Civic, but hard to judge scale without something known in the picture. Dual exhausts? They generally only hide the body work, they don't usually "add" stuff to the car to mask the end product.

Can't wait to see it.

dom

Honda is investing $ 857,000,000 in its 3 car plants in Alliston, Ontario, Canada, to build the next generation Civic.

Honda said the new funding will make the operation a teaching plant for all other Honda facilities... Alliston, about 90 kilometres north of Toronto, is becoming the first Honda plant in the world to launch the next generation Civic into mass production, and will develop the processes and tooling trials that will form the manufacturing base at all Honda plants worldwide, the company said.

Interview with Honda Canada president and CEO: http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/11/6/Honda-to-invest-800-million-at-Ontario-manufacturing-plant.aspx

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/honda-to-invest-857m-in-3-alliston-plants-in-ontario-1.2825806

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/11/06/honda-to-invest-857-million-in-alliston-operations-ontario-kicks-in-10/

Alliston's Honda plant is the auto manufacturer that is closest to my remote nothern town (site of GMC Cold Weather Testing Facility)... Hell, we're in the same '705' telephone area code. default_cool

 

Larry Roll

I am no longer a Toyota Corolla owner. I traded my beloved '03 Corolla LE in April 2014 for a new 2014 Subaru Outback 2.5i -- the base model. I loved my Corolla, and even though I didn't put a lot of miles on her -- I traded it with 99,196 miles in 11 years, 4 months of ownership) it was a faithful, dependable vehicle. However, it was beating me to death on the few road trips I take each year to the Buffalo, NY area -- and the trips through the wind-whipped mountain passés of NorthEastern Pennsylvania were starting to unnerve me. I would find myself down to 55 MPH on I-476 just to keep the damn thing on the road.

The Outback I bought was on the local Subaru dealer's lot for quite some time -- I had test-driven it myself on three occasions since the fall of 2013! I bought it with 168 miles on the odometer -- and got one heck of a deal! I was also surprised to get $3800 trade-in allowance on my '03 Corolla -- especially since it has been in an accident in 2010 and had a trashed CARFAX.

My Outback is a base model 4-cylinder 2.5i with CVT. I did a lot of soul-searching due to not being willing to invest in the relatively new technology of the CVT, but now that I have it, it is nothing short of magic! I don't have a fancy infotainment system, navigation, or leather/heated seats. Just the basic Outback, but it does have a Preferred Equipment package which includes 17" alloy wheels, fog lights, and all-weather mats plus a few other things. I love having all that room to move things. A couple of months ago I returned a full-sized shopping cart that had been decorating the entrance to my development for a couple of weeks back to the Safeway. No problem -- slid right in on it's side! Do that with a Corolla!

I've not had a chance to give the famous Subaru Symmetrical AWD a real test yet, but will be driving to Buffalo again the week after Christmas and may be in some snow then!

Soooo…as much as I've enjoyed this forum over the years, and will continue to be a member, I have nothing further to report on my former Corolla -- except to say that it was a great car and served me quite well. If only it hadn't been nearly totaled, I could have probably got a bit more out of it at trade in time!

BobLevine

I might be looking for a low mileage older vehicle to replace my 2013 Corolla L for the following.

1. Too much technology. Some government mandated and some Toyota additions.

2. Lousy visability.

3. Mandatory options like power windows and locks

4. Horrible bumper protection.

5. Too many car colored items like mirrors and door handles raising repair costs.

In the 70's and 80's, I rented Corollas and Tercels on my Exxon-Mobil corporate account in NYC because we got great rates. The cars were simple and indestructible.

I want the old Toyota slogan "Cheap to Keep" to return at least in selected models and trim levels.

DXCRolla

I'll be parting ways with Toyota in a few months when I sell my baby, an 05 Corolla S, for a Subaru Crosstrek. I live in Buffalo, NY and have been here for 5+ years and while the Corolla has performed like a champ with the notorious winter weather here, last winter had just too many hairy close calls due to the neverending and never melting snow on the local roads and highways. Even with snow tires and an additional 100lbs of sand aboard, my boy just couldn't hold to the road and I often found myself having to go faster than prudent just to have the momentum to get through drifts or plow piles in intersections.

Also factoring into the decision to sell is that I've come to that precipice in Corolla ownership where the car still has some value above the sum of its parts. My 05 still has less than 110K miles on it and aside from bumps dents and dings on the exterior from my time living in NYC with the car, it's in excellent rust-free condition. Who knows what kind of shape he'll be in after another slip-slidey, salty winter.

My main reason for leaving the brand is primarily the lack of reasonably sized and reasonably priced AWD vehicles in the Toyota family. Sure, the SUV's and pickups have 4WD available, but at the moment my needs and budget don't quantify buying one of the larger vehicles. I was keen on the RAV4 for a while, but the recent redesign is pretty heinous looking IMO and the price has just kept rising and rising on a model which at this point I don't feel matches the price tag. I'd love to find a late model used RAV4 with a fair amount of mileage on it, but this being Buffalo there are precious few models on the lease lot - and those that are tend to be high price, high mile beaters.

So in the end, it'll be Subaru for me. Crosstrek is slightly larger than my 05 Corolla inside, has better cargo storage options in and on top and has the all-important AWD. Price for a midrange model is about $2-$4K less than the entry level RAV4, at least around here, so as far as I'm concerned it's a no-brainer. I suppose I'll just have to wait until I hit lotto to get back into the Toyota market, when I can finally get my hands on a 1993 MR-2 default_biggrin