High Milage Oil

Depends on the car and the situation. I've tried it out on the Corolla to see what the UOA numbers look like - but usually get whatever is on sale at the time. Doesn't hurt to use a high mileage oil, as their additive package is pretty stout and in engines that are known to have oil consumption issues or have seals that leak (seal conditioners) - they could potentially help. But it is not a requirement that you "have" to use a HM oil at a preset interval.

Also doesn't mean that they will extend the life of the car any - just as an example - my mega mileage Camry never seen any high mileage oil since we drove it off the lot new, only conventional motor oil.

That Camry has 408K or 413K, haven't seen it in a couple of months - another family member drives it now.

As for your model year Camry - I think it has 8 holes per piston. Some owners have reportedly added two more holes on each side to bring the total number to 12 holes per piston. Drilling or modifying pistons is not for the faint of heart - sure, you can cause oil to drain faster, but also can cause excessive oiling, increasing the work-load on the oil scrapper ring. Has to be a balance between sufficient lubrication application and efficient oil removal. Most of the issues are due to oil deposits "clogging" the oil return holes. Enlarging the holes or adding more will decrease the likelyhood of oil deposits completely clogging the holes. So this is definitely a band-aid fix, not a true solution. Not only that, if done incorrectly, you could severely damage the engine.

Can't really fault Toyota on this one - design is similar to a number of other manufacturers as well. Remember Saturns back in the day? Porsche, Audi, VW, Chrystler, Subaru, Mitsubishi, etc. lot of makes have similar issues. Higher engine temps (for emissions and MPG), aggressive EGR (for emissions and MPG), longer maintenance schedules, timing chains, extreme temperature variations, relatively small sumps, different material science, advanced lubrication tricks, etc. all put a heavy load on the motor oil.

Have to change the oil and monitor what the engine does. Can't always rely on the oil change monitor on the car or what the dealership/garage/quick lube recommends. Unfortunately, once the oil consumption problem becomes noticeable, usually too late to stop it with changes in type or motor oil or OCI. Once you build up that thick, crusty carbon on the piston holes, only a rebuild will get that out. People that drilled larger holes or added more holes, can go longer before they notice oil consumption, but the oil consumption will eventually come back as the original problem (overworked motor oil) has not been addressed.

No easy answer on solving that either. Could be as simple as changing the oil change interval or switching to a different brand/type of oil. Could be as involved as increasing overall oil capacity, improved oil scavenging, auxillary oil cooling or modifications to the oil jets on the crankshaft - basically redesigning the car. All depends on who drives the car, how it is driven, what sort of environment it is used in, and what sort of maintenance it sees.

Actually, the oil consumption issue first noticed when the 2AZ-FE was first introduced around 2001, for the Camrys, it was basically from 2003-2008. Since then, the engine has gone through several updates - different camshaft, higher compression ratio, shorter coated pistons, lighter tension rings, revised piston oil squirters, etc. Not only did the earlier ones have oil consumption, some also had a tendancy to overheat and strip head bolts. That seemed to have gone away after the 2006 model year.

In 2009 - they went with the AR series of engine, the 2.5L 2AR-FE engine replacement for models with the older AZ series, 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine. Newer engine has dual VVT-i capability (both on the intake and exhaust side, instead of just the intake side on the 2AZ-FE), 5.6% increase in displacement, high compression ratio, and a return to a variable induction system. All adds up to more HP, torque, and better fuel economy. Interestingly, it retain the same piston oil cooling jets and piston and low tension piston ring design of the outgoing 2AZ-FE.

I have both engines - the 2.4L 2AZ-FE in the Matrix and the 2.5L 2AR-FE in the Rav4. The Matrix had some oil consumption issue - but I've been staying on top of right from the start (I already knew what I was getting into). The Rav4 for consumed some oil during its early stays with us - but has been pretty stable since. Though both were certified used Toyotas - both have been pretty poorly maintained, IMO - pulled the valvecover off and saw some crusty oil deposits. Couple of short oil change intervals with good filtration and motor oil and some hard driving "fixed" that for me.

Honestly - with the 1ZZ-FE, VVT-i, and timing chain - I'd be pretty darn happy to get 250K-300K miles. The 1ZZ-FE, even the later ones (ie, the ones with all the rolling fixes), have shown a pretty strong sensitivity to electrical noise and type of motor oil used. Oil fed VVT-i actuator and timing chain, coupled with a pretty high operating temperature really beats up the oil. Even under ideal maintenance and operational conditions - anything past 200K miles and you should be pretty happy about that.

A number of people have gotten that far, but the likelyhood of hitting 400K-500K miles or more is very likely impossible now. Not because the powertrain won't hold up - more likely that the car will get totaled from an accident, the body falling apart, or major accessory part bring the car down (hard to find parts). The OEM exhaust on my old Camry is all stainless steel, still running the original system - same cat, same mid pipe - new muffler (knocked the old one off in an accident, but it was still good) - the newer ones only have some stainless parts, the rest are coated. I've replaced the one on the Corolla once already and the newer one is started to eat through pretty quickly.

My older Camry, having been driven exclusively in the salt-belt actually has less rust than my current Corolla now. I've actually got rust perforation in some body panels around around the wheel wells. The Camry's paint and body panels actually "heals" itself and prevents rust from forming immediately after the paint gets chipped from a stone or other road debris. On the Corolla, Matrix, and Rav4 - I've actually got bubbles pushing through the paint and clearcoat in places is completely eroded through, with or without the help of stone chips and the like. Likely a combination of low VOC water-based paints and lackluster QC process.

IMO, the newer lot of Toyotas just don't hold a candle to the previous generations of Toyota. Maybe the next 20 years, Toyota will start embracing what made them so popular to begin with, making solid, reliably little cars. Doesn't mean the current crop of cars are all crap - from a safety and cosmetic/engineering design standpoint - Toyotas now are lightyears ahead of the older ones. Just wished that the bean cutters didn't choose content over quality, even though lots of that content are now federally mandated (think TMPS, active restraint systems, inside trunk handle, ESC, soon to be rear-view monitoring, etc.)

1996 Camry, 2.2L 5S-FE (chassis XV10) - last of the 3rd gen Camrys. The S-series engines were available from 1.8L to 2.2L displacements and was around since 1980 all the way to 2007. The most famous out of the bunch were the 2.0L 3S-GE and 3S-GTE engines - many still used in motorsports racing. Your engine, the 2.4L 2AZ-FE was the S-series replacement, much like the 1.8L 1ZZ-FE being the A-series (4A-FE / 7A-FE) replacement.

This particular 5S-FE is a 3rd gen design - around this timeframe, some Toyota Solaras (gen 1), Toyota Celica (gen 5 and 6) and Toyota MR2 (gen 2) were also fitted with 5S-FE engines. Not a huge powerhouse - as my 1ZZ-FE made about the same amount of power but weights almost half the larger 5S engine. The s-series were a cast iron block, aluminum head design - like the A-series engines. Well known bullet-proof bottom ends, valvetrain will be OK as long as you keep an eye on the oil.

Exactly right - even if they don't have staying power of some of their older counterparts, hard to argue a more reliable car for the money. More fun to drive, more performance, more standard content - sure, lots of other choices out there. But for one that just needs reliable transportation and stays ontop of the maintenance - hard to beat a Toyota. Only time will tell if this holds true - the competition is closing in very quickly, even some of the domestic offerings and previous "cheap" cars are showing great potential.

The Rav4 is OK on mileage, but its no Corolla/Camry. It is still a decent sized vehicle, or CUV as the market sees it. I see about 26-29 MPG, depending on how it is driven. Even in almost all city driving, I haven't see it fall below 22-23MPG.

Yeah, Toyota really have to step up their game or they will be passed by. This is what happened to the domestics several decades ago, they didn't perceive these smaller import cars as being a threat. Rightfully so, as the early Toyota, Honda, and Datsuns (Nissan) were pretty terrible cars. But once gas prices skyrocketed - the big three couldn't react fast enough to shift their focus. By the time they got there, the imports have refined their cars to the point of being significantly better than the domestics.

Actually, it was the domestics themselves that brought about their downfall. Remember the first Hyundai and Kia cars in the 80's and 90's - considered pretty low brow, unreliable transportation - now considered even or even better than Toyota / Honda. Not many people realize that they have partnered with domestics to help them build smaller, more fuel efficient cars. Remember the old Pontiac LeMans compact - that was Daewoo, or more correctly, a Hyundai/GM partnership. Remember the Ford Fiesta compact - that was a Kia/Ford partnership.

Seeing that right now with Toyota - partnerships with many manufacturers. Hybrid technology partnerships with Ford and BMW - both now developing their own and arguably more sophisticated hybrids systems. Toyota just got too bloated to quickly react to the changing marketplace and with a corporate policy of risk aversion (both in styling, performance, and new markets) - they have really fallen behind. Myself, unless I see big changes from Toyota - these 2009 models I currently drive will likely be the last Toyotas I'll own. Not crazy about the new 4th gen Rav4 - more station wagon than mini-trucklet. They killed off the Matrix, new Corolla - well, that seems about the same atleast. Trying to keep their #1 spot - they are pushing profits and sales, not innovating or rallying their fan base.

Don't get me wrong - I still love my older domestics, even with all their faults. Just something that can't be explained away with logic. Just take a quick cruise in a Chevelle or big block Mopar - to see for yourself. Myself, I'm considered a latecomer to the Toyota crowd. Used to be all Chevy and Dodge (hated Ford - dealership attitude is what did it for me), then moved on to European imports (BMW, VW, Porsche, Opel, Jag, Triumph - still have an old BMW 2002 and Porsche 914, atleast the body looks OK) then to Honda. All have their place in my mind - but hard to argue about a car that is dead nuts reliable - always gets you from point A to point B without fail. This is where Toyota came to be for me - but that was almost 30 years ago (first Toyota we bought was a 1985 Celica Supra) - might be time to move on.

Probably should start another thread - partly my fault, we are getting way off topic. I'll start a poll and put it in the general section - better place than here.