Corollas2019-23ToyotasTech

Search Corolland!

By Bull6791, March 27, 2014



Fish.

ROY said the compression was great and the only thing they could find was scorn oil control rings. He said they probably got scorn the 2 times the oil light came on and the car was 3-4 quarts low. He also said with a car that age it is common to lose a quart of oil between oil changes.

He said the oil control rings were not clogged just scorn.

He recommended at the next three oil changes putting in engine restores in with oil. His shop had good luck with it. He said it might not work.

The test cost $25 and he gave me no paperwork. FISH should I do the test again myself.

Should I replace just the oil control rings. How much do you think it would cost and could I do it or not.

Would it be better to replace all the rings. Cost.

Any info would be great.

Frank

Did they tell you what the compression numbers were?

I've heard of stuck rings - rings that have oil deposits / carbon caked into and around the ring. That can cause poor performance (low compression) and oil consumption (oil control ring cannot "scrape" the oil off the cylinder walls).

Scorn rings - pretty hard to believe with a modern engine. Unless the mean scorn cylinder walls - which is a possibility, but should have shown up with lower than expected compression. These can spontaneously "heal" from deposits filling in the scored portions, but generally will not be that intermittent. Engine Restore product probably will not help - what I worry about those problems are that they can make the oil control issue worse.

Not just a simple matter of replacing the oil control rings - you have to stop the rings from getting stuck in the first place, treat the original problem from occuring, otherwise the new rings will be stuck again down the road.

Fish

They did not tell me the compression numbers. They only said the compression was good and the oil burning was from oil control rings being scorn they said.

Twice the oil light came on. The first time the car was completely out of oil. The second time it was 3 quarts low. The mechanic said with the oil being that low those too times that is probably how the oil control rings got scorn.

He said they were not clogged but scorn. I do not believe it. I think the oil control rings are clogged because the Toyota Camry 07-09 engine problem oil consumption due to clogged oil control rings. Toyota did not make the holes in the oil control rings big enough.

Mechanic said cheapest fix is engine restorer. He said his shop had good luck with it.

Fish is it worth doing my own compression test or not really.

Also how do I verify that it is the oil control ring like mechanic said or I can not.

Mechanic also said that it is common for an engine of that age to lose some oil between oil changes.

Thanks Frank

Up to you, at this point, it is only worth doing to double check and retain the numbers. Any decent shop will write down the compression numbers for you on the worksheet - you've paid for the diagnostics, so they owe you those numbers. But given the test was $25 - which is surprisingly inexpensive - maybe they feel you only should get a pass/fail result.

Sounds like the mechanic is going by personal / previous experience - you can't tell an oil ring is scorn just from a compression test - have to take the engine apart. If they didn't do that - then they are just guessing at the problem. Very possible that the oil control ring is OK, assuming the compression was perfect, could be an issue with the wiper ring or second compression ring. Could also be excessive fuel dilution of the motor oil, causing it to shear down past its design spec. That point, oil will quickly be consumed by the engine, regardless of how well the rings work.

Engine Restore - product touted as an engine rebuild in a can. I've heard both good and bad things about it. If a shop pushes something like that - for me, that is a red flag that they don't want to deal with my car or don't care. Engine restore is something that I would pour into a dying engine to make it hold out a little bit longer.

In your 2AZ-FE - I'd be a little more concerned. Engine Restore has very fine copper, silver, and lead microspheres. It is classed as a EP additive, extreme pressure additive, which can help in cases of heavily scored piston and cylinder walls. In the case of your 2AZ-FE, if it does have stuck rings - it may actually plug up the oil return holes even faster - worsening your oil consumption.

Sure, an engine can consume oil between changes - how much it consumes is the real question. To lose 3+ quarts between changes on a standard 5K miles oil change interval - that is pretty excessive for a modern engine, in my opinion. If the car had 200K+ miles and is 15 years old - sure, I might be inclined to believe that oil consumption is a possibility. But not on a 2007 with less than 90K? miles.

Fish

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Like I said and I could be wrong but from talking to people and from what I have read the 07-09 Camry engine problem is a flawed part. Toyota made the holes in the oil control rings too small and oil can not get down into the pan. So it sits in the combustion chamber and burns. Now with the holes too small they clog.

So unless I am going to take engine apart and replace oil control ring or get a rebuilt engine I have to live with the burning oil.

You said a stuck ring. Is that the same thing as what I said or some thing different because this is the first time I heard someone bring this up.

Any way I am not taking engine apart or getting rebuilt engine too costly. So I will check oil regularly add it when I need it.

Thanks Frank

Correct - stuck rings happen when oil is trapped in the ring lands (grooves in the piston). In the case of the oil control ring - there are drainage holes that allow excess oil, scraped from the piston walls to be pulled past the slots in the oil control rings, down through the holes in the piston, and back into the sump. If oil gets trapped there and doesn't drain out - it can get "cooked" by the extreme heat in the combustion chamber and eventually solidify into a pretty rigid mass. Once this happens, oil can seep past the oil wipers on the oil control ring and now have oil consumption.

The issue at hand is Toyota's design of the oil drainage holes. There are a number of holes in the ring lands - the ones that are immediately above the piston wrist pin actually lubricate the pin, the ones that are offset from those are the drainage holes. The pistons used to have a significant drainage slot, that allowed oil scraped from the walls to drain down en masse. So oil gelation / oil deposits were not really an issue. They redesigned the pistons to remove those "features" to boost engine and fuel efficiency and and count on oil technology to be able to help keep things clean. Problem is, coupled with the timing chain, elevated engine operating temps for emissions, etc. - the motor oil is now subjected to extreme conditions. Pick a poor oil to run, run the engine too hard, or push the oil change interval too long - oil will breakdown and clog those holes.

The temporary fix is to drill more holes. This does not "fix" the initial design change - just offers additional avenues for oil to drain out. You could still get some of the holes clogged up - but since there are more of them, oil will still be able to drain out. Running oil with different additives might help - but many of the effective ones are now no longer produced due to their tendency for bioaccumulation and shortening the life of emission control equipment.



Topic List