Have a 1991 Toyota Corolla Wagon with the 4A-FE 1600 motor with a 3 speed tranny.
Automatic Trany just broke, makes a gear grinding/retching nose, we first thought it was the flywheel/flex plate BUT relished that was wrong as starter works fine and can start car with no problems… and found fluid smells burned.. Car barely has Any trany engagement and after a couple of seconds will not move car..just makes noise..
So sound common?? I read it is a common Diff drive shaft (internal) problem..and that many fail to replace/check the Diff. oil, Is that correct?
OK Now comes the tricky stuff: As I have to replace the trany, A) any chance a 4 speed (3 speed with Over Drive) will FIT??
If so will I need any other major parts like the PCM?? Wiring hardness? Or like my swapping the dash cluster for one with a Tach (original had no tach) work like that swap and simply plug in and work just fine?
I have read I should only need a on/off switch for the overdrive...
IF so any how to do threads/instructions?
More tricky stuff: Is a four speed automatic just a 3 speed with one more gear or did/do the four speed have different gear ratios, IE a lower 1st, 2nd, 3rd with the OD/4th gear not being all that much taller than the final gear ratio of the 3 speed??
Most OD tranys the 4th gear IS a full another gear step up with an almost full gear up drop in RPM, engine noise, and even better MPG?
I ask as I have found with smaller cars the 4 speed tranys can be less a gear step up than say a Ford 4 speed..
So bottom line can it be done reasonable and is it worth the extra work?
Thanks for helping.
Rich
You are correct - the 3-speed is unusual in that it uses two separate fluid reservoirs. One for transaxle (2.5 quarts) and one for the differential (1.5 quarts). Lots of owners and many shops, forget to change the differential fill. Usually they find out the hard way when the car hits about 200K miles and the transaxle/differential grenades.
As for swapping in a 4-speed transaxle into a 6th gen Corolla - this is nontrival. It is possible, but not a 100% direct swap. Part of the issue is that you'll need some PCM control of the transaxle, as the 3-speed uses hydraulic solenoids to handle the shifting, the 4-speed are electronically controlled. Can possibly pop in a standalone controller to control just the transaxle, but you'll need to tie it into the main PCM to get the other information (temperature, speed, engine load, etc.). Could try swapping to a newer PCM - but then you'll likely have to do some repinning of the connector to get it to correctly talk to the rest of the car.
Easiest way is to try and find a 6th gen Corolla with a 4-speed mated to the 1.6L 4AFE engine. In the US, this can be pretty hard to find, as the 4-speed is usually hooked to the 1.8L 7AFE. You'll also have to match the OBD version or you'll end up with a bigger headache on your hands.
Granted, the gearing is different between the 3-speed A131L transaxle vs the 4-speed A245E transaxle - but not by a whole lot. The 4-speed is designed more like a 3-speed with a lockup option. So you'll get that 4th "virtual" gear. For this generation - I believe the ratios were (A131L, A245E):
1st 2.810 3.643
2nd 1.549 2.008
3rd 1.000 1.296
4th - 0.892
Diff 3.526 2.962
You can crunch the numbers to see what the RPMs look like at speed. Have to take into account that you might be able to turn less RPMs at speed, but also give up some torque multiplication in the process.
If it is reasonable and worth the effort, that is entirely up to you. There is a reason why there are no DIY guides out there to pull this off. Most don't see the financial or performance gain from pulling this sort of swap - this is more a swap to satisfy personal curiosity or as a fun project.
Funny you should say that as I have found out this info:
Well all, I did it! I swapped an a240l into my a131l 91 corolla and thought i would share some info for anyone searching in the future.
Most of the steps are obvious but i wanted to point out some of the tricker items.
1.) when ordering parts order for a 92 corolla...
2.) When replacing the upper mount on the trans to the new a240 mount order a mount for a 93 corolla with a 1.8 (7afe) and an a240l.
3.) the shift cable is actually a different length by about .5 in. Makes park a bit stiffer, but still goes in solid.
4.) replace all the mounts when you are under there, they are inexpensive and you already have them out.
5.) run an external transcooler while you are there.
6.) the clearences are very close, make sure you remove the charcoaal canister and relocate the hose out of the bottom.
7.) get ziplocs and label all bolt locations, trust me there are alot of bolts.
8.) torque data for these is very hard to comeby, spend some time researching torque specs before you start.
9.) if you didnt have a 4 speed before the dash may not be wired for it (od/off light) it is pin 9 on the connector on the back (closest to the center of the car), goto the junk yard and cut off one of these connectors to have the pins. Put ur screw driver in the end lift the table and pull pin out solder a 30 inch extension to this and add it to the missing harness on your car.
10.) adding an od/off switch. You can find the wire you need by removing the ash tray and the cassette holder. Find the light green wire on the left side in the console area, splice into this wire and add a small pigtail so that your wire from step 9 and this wire are near each other. Solder the 2 together. Get a solder joint and add 1 14 - 16 gauge wire to wherever you want the switch, attach 1 side of the switch to this wire and the other side to ground. when you flip the switch you will simeltaniously activate the dash light and turn o/d off.
I can add pics later and will probably add more detail, but this should be enough of the trickier parts to get someone who might want to do this moving forward. I did it in 2 nights, first night (same night i first posted) i pulled the trans, yesterday a put a new one in so its not to hard, just time consuming.
SO Using a A240L non electronic 4 speed trans is suppose to work fine and two other guys follow these steps and did it as well...
You just HAVE to get a A 240L and NOT a A240E or a A241E as these are electronic controled systems.
Rich
Nice - great info! Thanks for sharing. I completely forgot about the A240L hydraulics from that generation - that would eliminate lots of the complexities in the wiring, aside from the overdrive switch.
So do you have the gear ratios for the A240L??
Perhaps they are different, and the rear end gear ratio or final drive ratio??
Changing the transaxel can often mean a different final drive ratio.
Like swapping a super VW bug transaxel does for the non super VW bug, the super has a higher final ratio due to getting bigger motors...
Rich
Gear ratios would be the same as the A245E - same family of transaxles, but would have a different final drive.
1st - 3.643
2nd - 2.008
3rd - 1.296
4th - 0.892
R - 2.977
Final drive - 2.821
Thanks.
So that is this comparison:
A131L A240L
1st 2.810 3.643
2nd 1.549 2.008
3rd 1.000 1.296
4th - 0.892 OD
Diff 3.526 2.821
I would say that between the OD of .892 AND the final drive ratio of 2.821 VS: 1.000 and 3.526 it should have a nice RPM drop in 4th overall.
Rich
Let us know how that 4AFE does at cruise - power-wise and fuel economy-wise. Just curious about how the 1.6L does.
I will follow up once we get it in...
I had no fun finding one...could get no cores...so had to pay $300.00 for a so called working one out of a junk yard with 185,000 Miles on the clock, and once I get it, I will have it rebuilt, then have it installed...
My wife loves her little wagon, and gets 25 MPG per tank fill ups in everyday driving...and has reported 35/40 on pure highway drives on trips to see her mother in LA...
And at his point we have replaced a lot of the car..so it kind of makes sense to do this.
Rich
Sadly the operation could not find the cause of the knocking noise.
After removing the transmission we remounted the starter to allow starting the motor. (How? By bolting it to the backing plate...)
To our horror we found that even with the transmission and torque convertor off the engine, the engine still knocks and sound like a couple of bolts are loose inside.
And we could not find anything wrong with the transmission, all the clutches and so on were nearly like new.
I was told by my mechanic the noise was either the flex plate or the front pump. With the failure of the transmission to move the car we were sure he was right.
The only flaw was finding the Diff near dry, but it seemed not to have done any visible damage...
So facing a replacement of BOTH the engine AND the transmission doomed to poor little car to the junk yard...
SO if anyone needs parts to one of these cars, we have replaced a lot of things this year alone.
I will be compiling a list of good parts, like the complete interior, and undamaged body parts (all are good).
Rich
On a happy note my wife's mom just gave us a 2000 Toyota Camry with 4 cylinder with a 4 speed and a very well cared 127,000 Miles on the clock.
Question does the 2000 automatic have the same fatal flaw in the diff??
Rich
Sucks to hear. Pretty unusual for a bone dry differential to take out the engine - but possible that, like most things. it was a combination of issues that finally pulled the car down. Fortunately, 6th gen Corollas are still pretty popular - so you should be able find someone to pickup your car pretty quickly.
As for the 2000 Camry's 4-speed transaxle - no worries, it has a single reservoir. No issues with the separate drains and fills, like on your 3-speed.
We now think the engine noise shuck up on us...but with a knock in the engine it made no sense to do the tranny AND then wait for the engine to fall out..and to do the engine would add a min. of $500.00 to $600.00 with a over used junk yard motor with 150,000...or then to spend a$1000.00+ to rebuild...Plus around $1200.00 for a rebuilt 4 speed tranny...
ONE or the other would have worked...but both ..DOA.
Rich
I totally agree. Unless the car had some extreme sentimental value - dropping that much coin on a 22 year old car is pretty hard one to swallow.
It ran very close..my wife has had it for the past 13 years and is still crying over its lost.
BUT I am so happy with the 2000 Camry, first for its improved safety features, second its improved performance, it feels closer to my 2000 Mercury power wise, and lastly for it like new finish..her mom keep it in a garage and keep it over serviced...
My wife is warming up to it fast...
Hope to help the 91 to reincarnate: Its parts as organ doners helping other 91s live on...(The best way for my wife to allow its parting out...)
