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By ever_green, October 5, 2010



ever_green

is it safe to switch to synthetic oil now for my 2000 corolla which has 70k miles on it? it had never had a drop of synthetic oil in it.

should be OK, maybe fish can chime in.

I just don't understand why you would do that ??

what are the benefits ??

The corolla will last long with just regular oil.

I've been using cheap stuff, its not burning noticeable oil yet.

You can safely switch to synthetic if you have no existing leaks, it won't create any. I had the same misgivings initially. No leaks after 3,300 km on Pennzoil Platinum 5W30. Mine burned oil before the switch, and it continues to burn it now. Lately its burning less, but I think its related to other things I've been doing. By the way, manyh dino oils these days are already at least partially synthetic (particularly the 5W20) . They don't put that on the bottle, but they use varying amounts of Group III synthetic base oils. The new API SN/GF-5 oil that is coming out now will contain even more Group III then the API SM / GF-4 of today.

-Spyder

The quality of current conventional oils is light years above the older stuff. In some cases, new conventional oils have better performance than some of the earlier synthetic motor oils.

As for being "safe" to switch over to synthetics - that was a thing of the past - as they didn't have seal swelling additives and conditions to keep gaskets and o-rings supple. You can safely switch from conventional to synthetics even with very high mileage vehicles. Some older cars ('60s and '70s) might leak a little oil, but they would have leaked anyway on their own. There is always a potential to have something leak from the switch, if the original engine was poorly maintained or has significant deposits internally - the high solvency of most synthetic motor oils make clean "too much" and start a leak.

For certain applications - like forced induction projects, extreme driving temperature conditions, elevated RPM operations, and extended drain intervals - I would always recommend running synthetics. For general purpose applications under most conditions - you have a huge selection to choose from. Some swear by the virtues of synthetic motor oils, some don't care either way. The most important thing is to change the motor oil on a regular schedule.

Same goes with the 3000 mile oil change. With most modern cars and latest API motor oils (conventional or synthetic) - 5000 miles is considered a more appropriate change interval. That said - much of that will depend on the driving conditions and condition of the engine. I've seen some owners run 10K or more on conventional motor oils with no issues and at the other extreme - I'd had a big block Mopar engine that I had to change the oil every 1000 miles, regardless of what makeup.

ever_green

the reason i want to swith is because now im goin to be driving a lot in below -10'c weather and this car is being used more than ever due to addition of new drivers in the family. this car used to drive 7k miles a year but now its more like 14k miles. also new heavy sticky winter tires will require higher engine rpm.

In this case - you'd probably see slight benefits of running a full synthetic vs a conventional in the car. Though conventional motor oils are catching up very quickly. Something like Castrol GTX conventional 5W-30 has a pour point of -31F compared to say, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 which is at -40F?. But with many Group III synthetics having periodic sales, I could see PP running neck and neck with GTX on just price alone. A few years ago, I stocked up on PP 5W-30 that was going for $1.67 a quart - where as GTX was about the same price. Every once and awhile you can see GTX running for less than a buck, but doesn't seem to happen as often as the synthetic sales.

The low pour point of PP and its cold cranking ability was a big part of what prompted me to switch. Lower pour point means faster lubrication and less start up wear - though engines have gone hundreds of thousands of miles on plain dino their whole lives, and in colder temps than this car will ever see. Pennzoil hasn't updated their PDS yet, but their newly formulated GF-5 spec dino is a very impressive looking oil from the only Used Oil Analysis I've seen on it so far. They are calling it dino, but it definitely contains some good Group III synthetic base stocks as well as a nice additive package. It gives my GF-4 PP a run for the money.

-Spyder

the reason i want to swith is because now im goin to be driving a lot in below -10'c weather and this car is being used more than ever due to addition of new drivers in the family. this car used to drive 7k miles a year but now its more like 14k miles. also new heavy sticky winter tires will require higher engine rpm.

 

where do you live ?

does it get to - 30 -40 deg Celcius for 3-4 months ??

If it is that cold, the synth would be of benefit, though you could run lower viscosity stuff in the winter.

No matter what oil, there is alot of friction when you start a cold engine in the morning in -40 celcius weather,

the key is to warm up the car properly, drive it slowly without stress to the tranny.

ever_green

sorry for the late reply. i live in Toronto Canada car never feels anything colder than -20c and in jan-feb only. my concern is not just the benifits but the fact that i might damage the engine or cause leaks/burns by switching to synthetic. i always toyota's oem motor oil and it has been really good to me with 70,000miles and no burning issues.. but in winter engine start is barely adequate and recently engine makes wierd knocking like noise you get from a diesel engine. i have switched to 91 octane and reseted the ecu and managed to improve fuel economy and muffle the diesel like noise. however the noise is apparent sometimes still during idle when engine is warm.

In that case - the benefits of the cold weather flowability of synthetic oils would total outstrip any potential leaks or other problems that it could potentially cause. Given the fairly low mileage, the chance of synthetic motor oil causing any issues is very remote.

Same with my Corolla, before I switched over to synthetic - engine would clack like a diesel engine until it got some heat into it. Now, it will still make some loud noises, but much less pronounced than before. Most noticeable change right from the start, was with starting ease - before, it would labor on start, now it cranks just a touch slower than it does in the summertime.

Younger drivers in the family hmm… what does that mean for the car?

If they are anything like my younger drivers, it means the following:

1. Put the car in gear and drive away 2 nanoseconds after the engine starts, (because they are in a hurry or late), no matter how cold it is outside.

2. Accelerate relatively aggressively out of the neighborhood even though the engine has only been running for 30 seconds, no matter how cold it is outside.

3. Rev the engine up to within an inch of its life while pulling on the expressway, even though the engine has only been running for 2 minutes, no matter how cold it is outside.

Is this an intentional effort to damage the car? Not at all, it is just how younger people can be, when they are not gear heads or had the joy of making car payments themselves.

In all of these conditions, synthetic oil with very good low temperature flow will be a benefit to the engine. I looked your 2000 Corolla up, I believe it uses SAE Grade 5w-30 oil and a 180 F degree thermostat. This is the same as my 2007 Matrix and 2008 Corolla. The significance of the thermostat temperature is that the engines tend to run a little cooler than other cars even when fully warmed up, so they benefit from oils with lower kinematic viscosities, (i.e. higher flow rates). The best results I have experienced with my Matrix and Corolla for smooth, quiet cold weather starting and operation is from Castrol EDGE 5w-30. As near as I can tell, this oil has the lowest specified kinematic viscosities of any SAE 5w-30 Grade oil on the market. Both of my cars were relatively loud on cold weather start up, (RRRRRRing and Knocking), even when using Mobil 1 5w-30. They are noticeably smoother and quieter on Castrol EDGE 5w-30.

I live in the Northern US, but was up in Canada last week and noticed that Canadian Tire was selling 5 quart jugs of Castrol EDGE 5w-30 for $29 Canadian. That is a pretty good price. The best price I can find in the US is at Wal-Mart, where 5 quart jugs of it go for $26.50 US.

70,000 miles is not a lot of miles for a Toyota engine. I have switched multiple, higher mileage GM engines to synthetic oil without any issues. Any synthetic oil will tend to clean out deposits left behind by conventional oil, (which is a good thing), but I doubt if you will develop any significant leaks by switching to synthetic. In the long run, I believe your Corolla will benefit from using Castrol EDGE 5w-30, especially when younger drivers are involved in cooler / cold weather.

^^^ Good stuff! Wow - Castrol Edge has come down that much, last time I checked it was still $8.49/qt. - hmm, need swing by Wally-World and see what they are running in my area.

ever_green

Younger drivers in the family hmm… what does that mean for the car?

 

If they are anything like my younger drivers, it means the following:

1. Put the car in gear and drive away 2 nanoseconds after the engine starts, (because they are in a hurry or late), no matter how cold it is outside.

2. Accelerate relatively aggressively out of the neighborhood even though the engine has only been running for 30 seconds, no matter how cold it is outside.

3. Rev the engine up to within an inch of its life while pulling on the expressway, even though the engine has only been running for 2 minutes, no matter how cold it is outside.

Is this an intentional effort to damage the car? Not at all, it is just how younger people can be, when they are not gear heads or had the joy of making car payments themselves.

In all of these conditions, synthetic oil with very good low temperature flow will be a benefit to the engine. I looked your 2000 Corolla up, I believe it uses SAE Grade 5w-30 oil and a 180 F degree thermostat. This is the same as my 2007 Matrix and 2008 Corolla. The significance of the thermostat temperature is that the engines tend to run a little cooler than other cars even when fully warmed up, so they benefit from oils with lower kinematic viscosities, (i.e. higher flow rates). The best results I have experienced with my Matrix and Corolla for smooth, quiet cold weather starting and operation is from Castrol EDGE 5w-30. As near as I can tell, this oil has the lowest specified kinematic viscosities of any SAE 5w-30 Grade oil on the market. Both of my cars were relatively loud on cold weather start up, (RRRRRRing and Knocking), even when using Mobil 1 5w-30. They are noticeably smoother and quieter on Castrol EDGE 5w-30.

I live in the Northern US, but was up in Canada last week and noticed that Canadian Tire was selling 5 quart jugs of Castrol EDGE 5w-30 for $29 Canadian. That is a pretty good price. The best price I can find in the US is at Wal-Mart, where 5 quart jugs of it go for $26.50 US.

70,000 miles is not a lot of miles for a Toyota engine. I have switched multiple, higher mileage GM engines to synthetic oil without any issues. Any synthetic oil will tend to clean out deposits left behind by conventional oil, (which is a good thing), but I doubt if you will develop any significant leaks by switching to synthetic. In the long run, I believe your Corolla will benefit from using Castrol EDGE 5w-30, especially when younger drivers are involved in cooler / cold weather.

ok thats the third person recommending castrol edge to me this week however i have never seen canadian tire selling castrol edge?! i looked at their website and still can't find anything. i am without a doubt going to switch to synthetic, seeing as how no body believes it will damage the engine. To be honest the only reason i was so concerned about switching was 1zz-fe oil burning issue. I don't have oil burning and i don't want oil burning. I'm off work today so maybe i can change the oil. what oil filters do you guys buy?

I use the standard Toyota filters.

From what I have seen on the web, they have very good flow characteristics, which are very important, especially if you are interested in good low temperature lubrication.

sorry for the late reply. i live in Toronto Canada car never feels anything colder than -20c and in jan-feb only. my concern is not just the benifits but the fact that i might damage the engine or cause leaks/burns by switching to synthetic. i always toyota's oem motor oil and it has been really good to me with 70,000miles and no burning issues.. but in winter engine start is barely adequate and recently engine makes wierd knocking like noise you get from a diesel engine. i have switched to 91 octane and reseted the ecu and managed to improve fuel economy and muffle the diesel like noise. however the noise is apparent sometimes still during idle when engine is warm.

 

Toronto is warm, you don't need synthetic.

It does not get bitter cold on many nights.

If you warm the engine and drive slowly, you will not have any problems with

dino.

Try living northern ontario or manitoba, now your talking cold, real cold, whereby

synthetic will help.

ever_green

lol toronto is not warm san-diego is. i know manitoba or northern parts could be worst but we still do hit -30c tempratures few days of the month here. also castrol edge is very expensive here about $13 per liter. i might as well go for GTX or mobile-1

i live in toronto, worked/been up in thompson manitoba, and also north of thunderbay where the logging roads lead to

indian reserves. Toronto is balmy relatively speaking. Don't need synth, atleast from my experience with 7 vehicles in my life.

If your really worried about cold start up friction wear in the cylinders, get a block heater.

I have experimented with synth and I see no difference as far as engine wear goes.

ever_green

i live in toronto, worked/been up in thompson manitoba, and also north of thunderbay where the logging roads lead to

 

indian reserves. Toronto is balmy relatively speaking. Don't need synth, atleast from my experience with 7 vehicles in my life.

If your really worried about cold start up friction wear in the cylinders, get a block heater.

I have experimented with synth and I see no difference as far as engine wear goes.

 

How about the diesel noise my car sometimes makes? it has been reduced since my son runs 91 octane with no ethanol in it now. but he says he can hear it sometimes at idle.

That sounds like you have some carbon buildup on the pistons, combustion chambers - leading to detonation - my 2002 does that as well. Tends to worsen as the miles roll on, usually goes away when you increase the octane.

Might try a decent top end cleaner - depending on how much is built up, might have to add cleaner directly to the injectors. As far as fuel additives go - I prefer Redline Sl-1 Fuel System Cleaner. Also used Chevron Techron Fuel System Cleaner and Valvoline Complete Fuel System Cleaner products with good luck as well. Another one that I've recently added is Gumout with Regane Complete Fuel System Cleaner - they've revamped the formula, works pretty well now. Some of the old school stuff still works pretty well - good example is MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil). Add a few ounces to a full tank of gas, car seems to like it.

i am without a doubt going to switch to synthetic, seeing as how no body believes it will damage the engine. To be honest the only reason i was so concerned about switching was 1zz-fe oil burning issue. I don't have oil burning and i don't want oil burning. I'm off work today so maybe i can change the oil. what oil filters do you guys buy?

I have never heard of a case of synthetic oil causing damage to a mechanically-sound engine, nor have I ever heard of synth "causing" oil burning.

As for what BRAND of synth? Honestly, your motor doesn't care. Use what you can get for a price that makes you happy.

For filters, I stick with OEM on cars that are still under warranty, and in most cases I use OEM regardless. The difference of a dollar or two over the life of a car is meaningless.

The bigger question is how long you intend to run the oil...if you're planning on following the 3,000-mile myth, then don't bother wasting your money. You could use Wesson cooking oil in the crankcase for that long (I kid, but you get my point).

i live in toronto, worked/been up in thompson manitoba, and also north of thunderbay where the logging roads lead to

indian reserves. Toronto is balmy relatively speaking. Don't need synth, atleast from my experience with 7 vehicles in my life.

If your really worried about cold start up friction wear in the cylinders, get a block heater.

I have experimented with synth and I see no difference as far as engine wear goes.

 

How about the diesel noise my car sometimes makes? it has been reduced since my son runs 91 octane with no ethanol in it now. but he says he can hear it sometimes at idle.

diesel noise or fouling is a separate matter. With synth, I believe we are talking about better lubrication

 

after engine start up and extended oil changes. I do not think the type of oil has anything to do with

the fouling of the fuel system.

ever_green

ok so i have decided not to switch to synthetic as the car runs fine anyway. to solve the knocking problem i have been looking for chevron techron or the redline fuel injector cleaner but haven't been able to find one. anyone knows where to find it here in toronto? thanks. btw the corolla runs on 91 octane shell v-power and diesel knocking still heard at idle.

ok so i have decided not to switch to synthetic as the car runs fine anyway. to solve the knocking problem i have been looking for chevron techron or the redline fuel injector cleaner but haven't been able to find one. anyone knows where to find it here in toronto? thanks. btw the corolla runs on 91 octane shell v-power and diesel knocking still heard at idle.

if you have a knocking problem, you have a problem to solve. I think maybe

 

the Fuel system / carbon deposit expert fishexpo should be able to answer that.

Its knocking for a reason, something is not right with the fuel or combustion.

If the engine is still knocking on 91 octane - then you probably have more going on than just carbon deposits. If the Chevron and Redline stuff cannot be found - try Gumout w/Regane (same "cleaning" chemicals that are in the others previously mentioned) or Lubromoly injector cleaner (recommended by BMW dealerships for their cars - works pretty well for others). Some have reported good luck with adding 4 oz of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) with a full tank of gasoline for cold engine knocking and pinging when warm.

Double check the plugs - make sure they are in good shape. Also note any gross variations between cylinders from reading the plugs - note if any are "wet", "glazed", "coked" or otherwise fouled.

Dan_H

sorry for the late reply. i live in Toronto Canada car never feels anything colder than -20c and in jan-feb only. my concern is not just the benifits but the fact that i might damage the engine or cause leaks/burns by switching to synthetic. i always toyota's oem motor oil and it has been really good to me with 70,000miles and no burning issues.. but in winter engine start is barely adequate and recently engine makes wierd knocking like noise you get from a diesel engine. i have switched to 91 octane and reseted the ecu and managed to improve fuel economy and muffle the diesel like noise. however the noise is apparent sometimes still during idle when engine is warm.

If the "knocking" is detectable only when idling and significantly worse before the engine warms up, it sounds to me like you're hearing piston slap. It is caused by the pistons not fitting tightly in the cylinder and pivoting, or rocking, a little bit as it moves up and down. Increasing octane won't have any effect, since it is not the fuel detonating. Piston slap is more noticeable in the cold due to the aluminum piston shrinking more than the iron cylinder walls and increasing the gap between the two. Waiting for cold oil to flow and 'cushion' the piston/cylinder gap doesn't help the noise, either.

 

 



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