Do I Have An Ecm/ecu Problem? 2005 Corolla S, Help Please? - Toyota Corolla, Chevy Prizm (1998-2008)

Hi there, first-time poster, though I've read this site a lot over time for entertainment and for helpful tips. This is the first time I've felt compelled to write myself though as I am perplexed with a problem with my car. This is probably going to be long, but please bare with me. :-)

I have a 2005 Corolla S, automatic, 1.8L with the 1ZZ-FE engine. I bought it used in May of 2009, and have never had a problem with it in the year-plus of having it until today. I was making a couple errand runs, and for whatever reason, when I was leaving my second stop of three different stores I needed to visit, the car would not start up. The key would turn, but the car wouldn't start... there were a couple red lights that showed up on my dash, but not all the lights, just a couple... I believe the oil and maybe the seatbelt lights were the two that would come up when I tried to turn the car over. It's July 3rd, and hot where I'm at, and with the electrical system apparently not working, I had open the driver side door to get some air since I have the automatic windows. After opening my door, I noticed the hands on the speedometer, RPM gauge, and gas gauge, all were flickering ever so slightly on their own, hovering above zero (or "E" in the case of the gas gauge). It did that only when I had my door open, as soon as I closed it, the hands stopped. Something else I noticed was I have a "security" button to the left of the steering wheel, though I don't have an alarm system installed. That light blinks red intermittently when the car is not started up and in gear... I noticed it was not blinking, like the engine wasn't turning, power locks weren't working, power windows weren't working, etc.

As luck would have it, I saw somebody I knew in the parking lot while I was trying to gather my thoughts, and we tried giving it a jump, thinking maybe the battery just needed some help. It did nothing, and my battery had plenty of juice to it, so that wasn't the problem. I tried again a few times, and again, the car wasn't turning over, not cranking, not making any noise except for a very subtle electric noise of some sort, that I had to listen closely to hear.

I was resigned that there was an electrical problem I couldn't fix, and even though I was only a few minutes from my house, I'd have to tow the car. I left the car alone, and didn't mess with it for maybe about five minutes, while making a call. While on the phone, I noticed that the aforementioned security red light WAS blinking again, and I thought maybe the car "reset" itself in the downtime, and would start if I tried since it was blinking.... and it did. Started up perfectly, like it has every other time I've ever started it in the past year, except for this incident today. I immediately drove it home. I turned it off, and started it back up a couple times after making it home, and it's started with no issues those times as well.

Here's where my thread title comes into play (finally!) After doing some research, I see that Corollas have had a lot of problems with the electrical control module/unit, though it tends to mostly be in the 2006 year cars, there have been some mentions of 2005 and 2007 as well. One thing I noticed though, is that in almost every case, there was a check engine light that came on, and people got it coded, and that's how they knew it was an ECM. I never had the check engine come up before, during, or since this incident... does this mean I don't have an ECM problem, or no?

I know this is REALLY long, and my deepest thanks for anyone who's taken the time to read this mumbo-jumbo. I just would like to have an idea with all the expertise and experience on this board, if anyone else has had a similar event. I've read that people have had experiences where their car SHUT OFF WHILE DRIVING, similar to mine did though luckily mine was just in the parking lot while I was inside. I drive 30 miles each day to work in high-speed and heavy-traffic areas, so this could be a nightmare. I have 62,000 miles on it, and I THINK there's an 80K mile warranty on issues like this with Toyota.

Any ideas if it's ECM-related, or has this problem popped up for anyone else?

Thanks so much!

The symptoms that you mentioned, mileage and model year of the car, make this sound very much like an ECM related problem. Corollas of the 2005-2007 model year vintage with mileage around 50K-80K miles that exhibit a no start condition, usually with little to no warning at all - very likely have bad ECMs. With the mileage and year, this should fall inside the federal emissions warranty - 8 years/80K miles. The trick is getting a dealership to diagnose a bad ECM - some dealerships will automatically replace the ECM after doing a quick diagnostic check - some rather run a battery of tests before they replace the ECM.

Fishexpo101 - thanks a lot for the response. I went ahead and made a service appointment at a local Toyota dealer to see if we can get this situation handled. I see you mentioned the trick is to get them to diagnose the ECM problem... any tips from anyone on anything I might need to do/say to help expedite the process? I am hoping I don't have to battle with anyone just to get the justified service done.

Just explain the situation that you were in - the car exhibiting a no start condition with weird electrical behavior - exactly like you posted above, and that should give them enough to go on to diagnose the ECM. Like I mentioned, up to the shop - some just need to hear "car doesn't want to start or shut off while car was in motion" and will automatically swap the ECM. Some want to follow the Toyota troubleshooting guide which eventually have the tech test the ECM.

The key here is to get it to the shop and start a paper trail. Need to have a worksheet with a record that the car suffered a no-start condition. This is especially true in cases where you are very close to the warranty limit (mileage). If you feel that the service writer isn't taking you seriously - escalate it to the service manager, then to the owner of the dealership. If this does not resolve the issue - escalate it to Toyota Corporate and log a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. I guarantee after that - someone will give you a call and have the problem fixed. It can be frustrating at times, but keep your cool, don't blow your top at the service writer - they're used to it and will generally not get you anywhere. Be methodical, dot your i's, cross your t's - you'll get the fix you need.

okay, follow-up to this: I did go to the dealer yesterday morning, and explained everything, and they took it in, and by 3:30pm, they had replaced the ECM, at no charge. I was feeling pretty good and thought everything was fine. Took it back to work, and then home from there, with no problems.

Until TODAY. It's 8pm on Friday night, and the same thing happened to me again. Even though I got the ECM replaced (at least that's what the paperwork said). Not turning over, acting like it's not recognizing my key. I would think that maybe they simply forgot to program my transponder key to the new ECM, except I DID get to drive it home last night and back to work today with no issue. Nobody is in the service dept right now, but just curious, what could be causing this? Very frustrating, as I wait to find a way home tonight.

Possible the ECM got rattled loose on the trip back - the ECM is hard to miss, large metal rectangle under the glove box, about the size of a netbook. Also a small chance you got a bum ECM replacement - not a whole lot you can do other than seeing if the ECM has physically become detached from the wiring harness.

Could try and reprogram the key - but I would be afraid that it would hamper the diagnostic procedure to find out what caused the no start condition after replacing the ECM.

Possible the ECM got rattled loose on the trip back - the ECM is hard to miss, large metal rectangle under the glove box, about the size of a netbook. Also a small chance you got a bum ECM replacement - not a whole lot you can do other than seeing if the ECM has physically become detached from the wiring harness.

Could try and reprogram the key - but I would be afraid that it would hamper the diagnostic procedure to find out what caused the no start condition after replacing the ECM.

Thanks for the replies, fishexpo. Follow-up to this: I went back up to work on Saturday, after having to leave my car there Friday night since it wouldn't start, and tried to start it, and it wouldn't turn over once again. I unhooked the battery cable for about 15 minutes, thinking maybe that'd help "reboot" the computer, I also got into the ECM unit in the glovebox as you mentioned, and kinda tapped on it a few times in case something was loose. After I reconnected the cable, the car started right up. Whether it was the cable, my tapping on the ECM, or some combo, the car did start and I took it home, the wheel was rattling for about the first ten minutes I was driving it, when I'd come to a stop, which I understand is normal when a computer has been installed, after roughly ten minutes it stopped, and hasn't done it since. I've driven it to and from work two times with no incident since this happened. I am continuing to monitor everything.

Guest Toyochamo

Hey Neutral,

Have you had any problems since then? Replacing the ECM was your permanent fix to the issue?

I just bought a used 2005 Corolla LE with 58K on it and it's got all the symptoms you guys had. It takes two or three times to start, even when it's warm already.

My car runs just fine but it's annoying that you have to try 2 or 3 times to get it running.

Thanks!

Toyochamo