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Corolla Difficult To Start In Morning, Is It The Battery?

By dracodoc, January 12, 2009



My Corolla 2000 recently is difficult to start in winter morning. It's not very cold, but I started to have this problem 1 month ago:

1.when I turned the key, all the checking light turned on just like normal case, but there was no sound of starters.

2.If I turn the key several times, especially turn from the AC position (where the circuit is on but not started) to start, the starter could begin to work, then the car finally started.

I checked the battery, which was installed by Toyota dealer on 09.14.06. It used to have some terminal corrosion

https://www.corolland.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21328

But it didn't develop more corrosion after I cleaned it up 1-2 times.

I searched some articles on Internet and cleaned the battery terminal again with some coke, the problem disappeared 2 days later. However it came back again last morning, and I barely make it started this morning.

I searched articles for this problem before, but cannot narrow down the possible causes. I don't have a multi-meter but maybe I can borrow one.

I just heard that Toyota Trustart battery have 24 months free replacement warranty. I wish I knew that when I first found that corrosion problem...

I just heard that Toyota Trustart battery have 24 months free replacement warranty. I wish I knew that when I first found that corrosion problem...

does the car go click when you engage the starter or nothing? if nothing take the battery out and take it to autozone for free load test. If yes get starter contacts replaced. costco has the best deals on batteries for corolla. 3 year unlimited replacement 80 month warranty. $70

does the car go click when you engage the starter or nothing? if nothing take the battery out and take it to autozone for free load test. If yes get starter contacts replaced. costco has the best deals on batteries for corolla. 3 year unlimited replacement 80 month warranty. $70

I heard nothing in several tries, then there were clicks. If the clicks stay long enough, the car will start.

I have no Autozone in my neighboorhood, does AdvancedAutoParts have similiar service?

does the car go click when you engage the starter or nothing? if nothing take the battery out and take it to autozone for free load test. If yes get starter contacts replaced. costco has the best deals on batteries for corolla. 3 year unlimited replacement 80 month warranty. $70

I heard nothing in several tries, then there were clicks. If the clicks stay long enough, the car will start.

I have no Autozone in my neighboorhood, does AdvancedAutoParts have similiar service?

sounds like starter contacts again.

if you can borrow a multi meter and measure the battery voltage when it has failed to start you can diagnose it. . If the voltage is lower than 12.5 you need a battery too.sears will also check it out for a nominal charge.

I tried to check the starter contacts. Some article said follow the cable from positive terminal of battery. I looked and found it runs to several places, most of them are difficult to see or check.

Besides, if there is a problem with starter connections, why it can start normally after morning?

Then I went to Autozone 10 miles away, they checked the battery and said the battery need recharge -- I thought they will check the connection and starter etc, but they only checked the battery. I removed the battery to get a charge in Autozone, it took about 20-30 mins to charge the battery, after charge they tested the battery(a 60 seconds test by the instrument) and said battery was good. So I installed the battery back.

This morning the problem was still there, only it needs much more tries to get the engine started, because today is colder.

I went to a Exxon service station, the mechanic said I need to leave the car overnight to let him find the problem -- the car will start normally after morning start. I can't leave the car overnight -- and I don't know if he can fix the problem in one try.

So, if I buy a mult meter and measure the battery or other connections, can I separate the problem cause by this method? I don't try to fix it by myself, but at least I would like to know the accurate problem cause to avoid unnecessary cost in dealer or mechanics.

UPDATE: I called another mechanic, he also need me to leave the car overnight to duplicate the problem, and he will charge $48 for diagnosis.

Sounds like it could be a temperature dependant, intermittent issue - those are tough to diagnose quickly.

Starter contacts are not visible from ontop of the engine - you have to crawl underneath, as the starter is almost directly below the intake manifold (right behind the radiator) and even partially obscurred underneath by the right-hand side splash shield.

When you try and start the car and it doesn't crank at all - do you always notice a "click" from an interior relay or notice the lights "dim" as you turn the key to the run/start position?

If not - you could have a ignition switch issue or bad relay. If you notice the lights significantly dim, but no crank - the starter could be locked up or starter contacts/power leads are shot.

Once it finally cranks - does it crank at normal speed or seems slower than usual? Cranking slower is a sure sign of a dying battery - one can hold a charge and still test OK, but given a big enough load, it will fail.

Chances of bad terminals is still possible - but since the battery was independantly checked out and there didn't seem to be any significant corrosion on the terminals - the problem probably isn't around the battery "connections" - could still be a bad battery. A quick test would be to jump start the car when it acting up - if it starts everytime - then you are probably looking at a dying battery.

Multimeter would be handy - one to double check the voltage on the battery itself - ideally, should be more than 12V (12.6V for a fully charged battery) after sitting for some time. You can also check the voltage drop as you apply a significant load (ie. have someone start the car as youmeasure the battery voltage and observe how low it drops). Voltage will drop, but not below 10V or so - if it does, you have a bad battery or possibly a jammed up starter (drawing way more juice than it supposed to).

You can also measure several chassis ground points - measure the potential difference between the negative terminal of the battery to metal points on the car's body (should read zero volts to a tens of millivolts (1000ths of a volt) - really depends on the quality of the multimeter). Don't use the OHMs or resistance setting, as the multimeter will send juice into the circuit you've created - not usually a problem, but usually not accurate enough, atleast with typical units you can buy in the store and always safer to measure voltage inline with a circuit.

A bad battery, bad battery cable, the previously mentioned starter contacts, a bad starter, general bad wiring, faulty switch, bad relay are your most likely culprits.

Thanks so much fishexpo101, I think I got detailed and helpful answers from you in almost every post I had ever posted here.

If I remembered correctly, this problem appeared in last winter too, but not so frequent, maybe just 2-3 times. This morning was much colder than yesterday, and I have to try much more times to start the engine -- sometimes there was cranking, but not as strong as normal, so the engine can't be started even with about 10 seconds cranking. I know I can't let the starter crank for too long or too frequent, is 10 seconds safe in most cases?

I noticed that the clock dimmed when the starter cranked, but it didn't dim when the starter didn't move. I had a mechanics looked at it today, he can't locate the cause because the car would start normally in day. I told him about the battery terminal and starter connections, he touched the connections on starter end and said they were secure.

I will buy a multi meter and try your diagnosis methods tomorrow morning, thanks a lot!

Another question, can I test the starter connection with multi-meter? I read somewhere that you can use a 12v test bulb to test the circuit, but I think that is difficult to get or too special. If the connection between starter and battery have problem, or the solenoid/relay to starter is faulty, is it possible to test it with multi-meter's resistance setting? I know it will create current, but I can't think of other method.

I bought a multi-meter and checked the voltage of battery. It was 12.96 last night, and 12.48 this morning. Then it dropped a little then increased to 14 when I tried to start the car -- because the car started in one try normally...

I wish it was the touch of mechanic on the starter connection made this. We will wait and see.

Yeah, 5-10 seconds of straight cranking would be fine - just give it a little time between cranking episodes to allow the starter to cool down.

Even when cranking slow - it should fire up the engine pretty easily. It sounds like a compound issue here. It could also be a fuel/ignition related problem that is compounding that hard starting issue you are seeing. We didn't ask earlier - but if you have a theft deterrent system, remote starter, etc. - this can also be another source of issues.

Has the car seen a major tune-up recently?

Has the spark plugs been changed recently or are you still on the OEM Iridiums?

I know on my Corolla - it doesn't crank hardly more than a few revolutions before it starts up - some cases, I can just tap the run and that is enough to start the car. The Matrix is other way - that one has to crank for a few seconds before it fires - but a known issue on 9th generation Corolla/Matrix.

If it starter cranks but the engine does not want to fire - press on the accelerator to open the throttle plate and let the engine get more air. Possible that the throttle body is gummed up and not letting enough air in to facilitate combustion. Also possible that the injectors are heavily clogged or even faulty. They may not be atomizing the fuel correctly or may not even be working initially. Fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator could also be suspect, though unlikely. There could be a vacuum leak in the intake manifold - that might be causing some problems - those tend to pop up more frequently when the weather gets colder. Bad gas is another possibility - though if this has happened before, unlike that could still be the issue now. Couldn't hurt to throw in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner just to see what happens.

The starter turning over more slowly than usually is understandable here - as you are cranking for some length of time. The OEM battery and OEM replacements are pretty small, reserve capacity wise, not unusual for the battery to weaken. But since it sounds like it recovers enough to keep cranking the starter - the battery and the connections to the battery and probably the starter (mechanic says looks OK) are probably not the problem. Dimming lamp is a good sign - the starter draws lots of juice (~90 Amps) - so you should see that. The times that starter doesn't do anything and no dimming of lamps is a very specific sign.

It could be the starter relay is bad. This can be easily checked out with a multimeter or even just replaced out right to save time. To give you an idea on what to test - I've linked a pic to part of the FSM on testing the relay. This relay is in the engine bay main junction block (the largest fuse box under there) - relay should be marked ST - would just pop right off or may have to be unbolted from the bottom first, then popped off.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...arter_relay.jpg

As for using the multimeter for testing the start connections - yes and fairly easily. You can check for continuity between the starter body and the hot side connector - should be NONE. Check starter body to chassi ground - should have continuity there. They make inexpensive continuity checkers with a 12V lamp that indicates a live circuit - can be useful - but a full function multimeter is not that much more expensive and you can do quite a bit more with them, not just for the car - all sorts of stuff you can use them one. Definitely something that you want to have for any kind of electrical/electronic diagnostic work.

Other possibilities would be the park/neutral position switch and ignition switch - if the P/N position switch is faulty, it would not even get to the main starter relay - you turn the key and get nothing. You can try shift the transmission to Neutral (parking brake set, foot on brake) and try starting there. If the main ignition switch (key) is faulty - it would have similar results - you crank the key and get nothing. Could be that these switches are not completely bad and just intermittent in operation - which makes it really tough to catch quickly. Good Luck.

I bought a multi-meter and checked the voltage of battery. It was 12.96 last night, and 12.48 this morning. Then it dropped a little then increased to 14 when I tried to start the car -- because the car started in one try normally...

I wish it was the touch of mechanic on the starter connection made this. We will wait and see.

Battery sounds like it is fine. Very possible that mechanic touched something in diagnosing the starter contacts to "fix" something. Sometimes I get lucky with my EVAP system in that manner - just tugging on some stuff can fix a small leak or scrap surface corrosion away and problem seemingly disappears. That is the toughest issues with these intermittent issues - you never can tell when they will come back, if they do. Just have to wait for something to completely fail - can be quite annoying. Hopefully this "fixes" your hard starting issue. default_biggrin

 

 

Besides, if there is a problem with starter connections, why it can start normally after morning?
The starter contacts are quite thick copper. They wear out gradually with each start of the engine. With each start of the engine, the copper of the contacts and the copper around the plunger which connects the contacts to each other wears slightly thinner and thinner. This is a normal occurrence. But the thinning is not distributed evenly around the plunger nor between contacts. So the electrical connection between the plunger and contacts is intermittent, hence the difficulty starting. But, once the engine heats up, some of that heat is dissipated to the nearby components, such as the starter. Heat causes metal to expand, so the starter contacts expand since they are made of copper and copper is a good conductor of heat and electricity. Thus, subsequent starts during the day are easier because the starter and its contacts are "warmer."

 

 

Another possibility is a faulty or intermittent cold start injector. Not all Corollas have one of these, which is typically located on the throttle body.

Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. It looks like just this problem.

The problem just reappeared 2 days ago, and this morning I can't hear the cranking even after many tries. The light of clock will dim when I try to start. I tried to imitate the mechanic's "touch" on the starter but no good. Then I moved a little the connection wire to starter then held it and let my wife turned the key -- it started cranking immediately.

I asked some mechanic to tighten the connection to starter, they asked for $28. I brought the car to another mechanic, he said the problem is still with the starter, not the connection. He said when the problem appear again, I can let another people to turn the key, and tap the starter at the same time, if it started, that means problem with starter. He asked for $450 to replace the starter (250 for starter, 200 for 2 hours labor). I checked some website for starter price, most of them ask for 120-180.

I'll try his method tomorrow morning...

The starter contacts are quite thick copper. They wear out gradually with each start of the engine. With each start of the engine, the copper of the contacts and the copper around the plunger which connects the contacts to each other wears slightly thinner and thinner. This is a normal occurrence. But the thinning is not distributed evenly around the plunger nor between contacts. So the electrical connection between the plunger and contacts is intermittent, hence the difficulty starting. But, once the engine heats up, some of that heat is dissipated to the nearby components, such as the starter. Heat causes metal to expand, so the starter contacts expand since they are made of copper and copper is a good conductor of heat and electricity. Thus, subsequent starts during the day are easier because the starter and its contacts are "warmer."

It's 4pm and pretty warm outside. The starter didn't crank. I tapped the starter several times, no difference. Then I moved the connection wire a little, it started right away. It still looks like connection problem to me.

The starter should be the original one with 88000 miles, what's the normal life time of corolla starters?

Depends on who made the starter (Denso part or not) - also depends on how much cycling the starter has seen, weather conditions, driving/starting conditions, etc. I'v seen them let go at less than 30K miles other go for hundreds of thousands of miles.

If you wiggled the connection and it immediately worked - you definitely should be checking the starter power connection, starter contacts and/or checking the power wire itself.

I've seen a few cases, the connection were clean and tight, contact were good - but the power cable to the starter was broken and heavily corroded inside the cable jacket. Other cases, it was a poor connection to the battery that was the problem. I'd double check that there are no nicks or breaks anywhere along the length of the powe cable.

My battery had a problem similar to this; it started intermittently not cranking when it got cold out. I'd turn the key, it would click, then nothing. I got out, jiggled the battery, and that usually worked. So I figured it was the solenoids, and I was going to get them replaced.

Then my dad looked at the battery, and figured out whoever bought it (the car is used, obviously) didn't buy new connections at the same time, so they didn't fit properly. They were loose enough to not be in constant contact with the battery contacts. He cleaned them up and somehow got them tight, and I haven't had a problem since. So do check the battery connections for an improper connection.

I scanned the previous posts, and didn't really say if you cleaned the battery terminals and cables where they actually make contact. I often find a hard grey coating has built up on the outside of the terminal, and the inside of the cable connector. I remove it from the battery terminal with coarse (60-120 grit) abrasive clothe or paper, and from the inside of the connector with a scraper of some kind. The coating can be kind of hard. You will see the shiny lead when it is clean.

The connections also need to be very tight. If you can turn or move them with your hand, you will have problems.

Also check the other end of the ground cable to make sure it is tight and not corroded.

The low batt voltage is an indication that it isn't being charched well. Unlikly that your starter and alternator are both bad. But a bad connection at the battery will afect the pervormance of both.

It's 4pm and pretty warm outside. The starter didn't crank. I tapped the starter several times, no difference. Then I moved the connection wire a little, it started right away. It still looks like connection problem to me.

The starter should be the original one with 88000 miles, what's the normal life time of corolla starters?

Thanks a lot for all the responses, I checked the battery connection, it used to have some corrosion built up but not in this case. The starter problem can be fixed if I shake the wire on starter end immediately, so I believe it can be fixed by tighten the connection. But one mechanic looked my car and said I definitely need a new starter (it is a Denso one on near 90,000 miles), I told him about the wire, but he said it's still the starter. I took my car to another mechanic, he said same thing, and he said the wire reach into the starter, it was because the starter have some parts worn, so I can shake the wire to make it contact, but there will be a day the starter will not start no matter how I move the wire.

I finally decided to replaced the starter, because if the car didn't start some day it will bring much more trouble than fix it now. The problem didn't appear after the replacement.

Bikeman982

I would get the starter replaced (actually I would replace it myself).

If your battery is good and the wiring and connectors are sound, replacing the starter is a fairly easy job.

Thanks a lot for all the responses, I checked the battery connection, it used to have some corrosion built up but not in this case. The starter problem can be fixed if I shake the wire on starter end immediately, so I believe it can be fixed by tighten the connection. But one mechanic looked my car and said I definitely need a new starter (it is a Denso one on near 90,000 miles), I told him about the wire, but he said it's still the starter. I took my car to another mechanic, he said same thing, and he said the wire reach into the starter, it was because the starter have some parts worn, so I can shake the wire to make it contact, but there will be a day the starter will not start no matter how I move the wire.

 

I finally decided to replaced the starter, because if the car didn't start some day it will bring much more trouble than fix it now. The problem didn't appear after the replacement.

same as always. if you would have taken the back cover off your old starter, you would have seen worn contacts and a loose post. that is all it needed. the wire does not go into the starter . It connects to a post that bolts on to a starter contact. Most mechanics are not going to repair anything. They replace assemblies in order to cover their arses on warranty issues and sell higher priced repairs. I do not blame them. they need to be effective with their time and make a profit for their business. I have been quoted over $300 for a starter replacement and I fixed it with $4 worth of contacts.Yes, once in a while the bushings are worn ,but not at 90000 miles. Mine has 262000 and was rebuilt by toyota once and had 2 contact replacements. The denso starter and alternator are close to bullitproof. Hopefully they did not charge you a fortune.



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