by Easy_driver, February 5, 2008
Easy_driver
Hi All,
A few of you might remember my previous post, about a dead battery.
Well, it turns out I should have not removed the dead battery from my 2005 Carolla Le
I had it out for a few weeks, before I replaced it with a Duralast G from Auto Zone.
As a result, my car failed a recent inspection. The mechanic told me to put some miles on it
20-100 miles, to reprogram the onboard computer.
Is anyone familiar with this problem? Will miles solve this problem?
Thanks.
Yes, unfortunantly, there is no easy work around - you have to just drive the car. After a certain number of cold starts up to operating temperature - the car will automatically performance an I/M test on components such as EVAP system, catalytic efficiency, etc. If the battery is depleted over a long period of time (or disconnected), the ECM will eventually loose its "learned" parameters.
Same thing happens when you get a check engine light (CEL) reset - the ECM will be cleared and will have to "re-learn" parameters.
Easy_driver
Yes, unfortunantly, there is no easy work around - you have to just drive the car. After a certain number of cold starts up to operating temperature - the car will automatically performance an I/M test on components such as EVAP system, catalytic efficiency, etc. If the battery is depleted over a long period of time (or disconnected), the ECM will eventually loose its "learned" parameters.Same thing happens when you get a check engine light (CEL) reset - the ECM will be cleared and will have to "re-learn" parameters.
Fishexpo101,
will 100 miles, be enough for the car to re-learn? I am scheduled for another inspection in about 7 days.
i don't think that my manual says anthing bout not removing the battery.
Thanks for your time.
Might be enough - really has more to do with the number of start and stop cycles than overall mileage covered. I ran into the same thing when I needed to get my car smogged - a CEL the day I brought it in to be tested, reset, took about 100-150 miles over a period of three days before it finial completed its internal I/M test. After that - passed smog just fine. Doesn't really hurt the car to remove the battery - but the car will have to relearn optimal parameters for a given driver's driving style.Fishexpo101,will 100 miles, be enough for the car to re-learn? I am scheduled for another inspection in about 7 days.
i don't think that my manual says anthing bout not removing the battery.
Thanks for your time.
Bikeman982
The question might be - How can you tell if it has been long enough (miles,time, or starts) before the computer has re-learned??
The question might be - How can you tell if it has been long enough (miles,time, or starts) before the computer has re-learned??
You can't. I'm actually surprised this is a problem. So would a car right off the lot fail inspections? Usually ECU software takes longer to figure out values when after market parts are on the car. The ECU should be able to work with a stock car with blank values.
Maybe something else caused the emissions failure.
In areas that do I/M status checks (1996+ model years, OBD-II only) - yes, the car will automatically fail. Others run an I/M 240 - which is an ECM query and a run on a treadmill for 240 seconds. The problem lies with the ECM's I/M System Status and if it is updated or not. Only way to tell is to hook a scanner into the car and query the ECM for its I/M readiness - it will report back PASS, FAIL, or NOT READY
Conditions for updating the I/M System Status requires that each OBD II system perform at least one self-diagnostic test. The system monitor is completed when all of the DTCs that report to the system monitor have run - ie. PASS / FAIL state. Of course, any failures would be reported by a CEL. The headache comes in when the required test for a specified system has not run, l/M System Status is in a NOT READY state.
Example conditions that would set the l/M System Status indicator to NOT READY state:
- vehicle is new from the factory and has not yet been driven through the necessary drive conditions to complete the tests
- battery has been disconnected or discharged below operating voltage
- ECM power or ground has been interrupted
- ECM module has been reprogrammed/reflashed
- ECM has been cleared as part of a service procedure (reset a CEL)
Example vehicle systems that the l/M System Status indicator looks at (if applicable):
- Air conditioning system
- Catalytic converter efficiency
- Evaporative Emissions system (EVAP)
- Exhaust Gas Recirculation system (EGR)
- Fuel delivery system
- Misfire monitoring
- Oxygen sensor system / oxygen sensor heater system
- Air injection system (Emissions)
Personally, for me it was the EVAP system going bonkers before the emissions / state inspections. Always happens right before I take it in for testing - get a CEL, have to reset the ECM, drive for several days, I/M is now set, retest = PASS. Sometimes the emissions / state inspector will let me retest for free - most of the time I have to pay out of pocket. Kind of weird that the car is trouble-free for TWO years between emissions testing, and only acts up the week or the day I bring it in. This year I came in a month ahead of schedule and it flashed the CEL the day of testing. Oh well.
Easy_driver
Thanks to all for the good advice. Hopefully my car will pass.
Thanks again.
Bikeman982
I have a guy that does the smog test for my cars, and if it doesn't pass - he doesn't report it.
It gives me a chance to fix anything that is wrong and then have it tested again.
He charges less than the going rate (for his friends) for the tests.
He has helped two of my cars pass (must be done prior to a sale).
New cars don't generally fail emissions tests since in most states cars that are titled for the first time are exempt from emissions testing for one or two years.
The rules about the I/M status are to prevent you from simply resetting the light to make a check engine light go away just to pass the test. People used to do that and they would get gross polluters to pass when they really should have failed miserably.
FYI:
If you have an AWD vehicle such as a Subaru, Audi with quattro or VW with 4motion, DO NOT let the I/M testing facility do a dyno type test on the car unless they have a 4 wheel dyno. Doing a 2 wheel dyno test on a AWD car will damage the AWD system. This damage is not covered by your warranty and is outrageously expensive to fix. AWD vehicles are exempt from testing with the dyno in states where they don't employ a 4 wheel dyno for emissions testing, but it is your job to inform the testing facility that you have AWD and your vehicle can not be tested that way.
I know that the Corolla isn't AWD, but I just though I'd share in case anyone on here lives in a state with dyno emissions testing and owns a Subaru, Rav4 AWD, or Sienna AWD.
Bikeman982
New cars in CA are tested by the dealer (or someone they have test for them).
You don't have to get it re-tested until the registration is renewed.
Easy_driver
Hello All,
My car passed the inspection. I put in approx. 90 miles over 6 days, for the car's computer to re-learn.
To recap my problem briefly, my battery was low, couldn't start the car. I took it out, left it out for a few weeks (shouldn't have done this).
I bought a new battery, installed ok, did not drive much before the inspection resulting in a failed inspection. The mechanic told me to put in 20-100 miles.
I learned alot from this whole experience.
Thanks all.
I'm glad it all worked out for you, but if it didn't, isn't your car still under a emissions warranty? I thought the 7 year 70K mile California warranty extended to all 50 states now.
Bikeman982
How did you know the car was ready for a re-test?Hello All,My car passed the inspection. I put in approx. 90 miles over 6 days, for the car's computer to re-learn.
To recap my problem briefly, my battery was low, couldn't start the car. I took it out, left it out for a few weeks (shouldn't have done this).
I bought a new battery, installed ok, did not drive much before the inspection resulting in a failed inspection. The mechanic told me to put in 20-100 miles.
I learned alot from this whole experience.
Thanks all.
Is it because you put almost 100 miles on it??
What would have happened if it didn't pass?
Easy_driver
Bikeman982,
When I took my car for the 2nd inspection, I was hoping that I had driven it enough to "relearn" but I was not sure if the driving was enough.
If it had failed the inspection, I would have been very disappointed but I would have kept driving to relearn the computer.
Gvr4ever, I was not aware of the emissions warranty.
Now I will connect a Battery Tender to the battery.
Should I use the cigarette lighter, or the alligator clips to connect to the battery?
how do I connect the battery tender wire to the battery if I intend to keep the hood closed?
or cigarette lighter, if I keep the doors closed?
Thanks.
How did you know the car was ready for a re-test?Hello All,My car passed the inspection. I put in approx. 90 miles over 6 days, for the car's computer to re-learn.
To recap my problem briefly, my battery was low, couldn't start the car. I took it out, left it out for a few weeks (shouldn't have done this).
I bought a new battery, installed ok, did not drive much before the inspection resulting in a failed inspection. The mechanic told me to put in 20-100 miles.
I learned alot from this whole experience.
Thanks all.
Is it because you put almost 100 miles on it??
What would have happened if it didn't pass?
I assume the car will be garaged somewhere close to an electrical outlet? I prefer to make electrical connections directly to the battery - though since we are not talking about a whole lot of current, should be fine through the cigarette lighter plug (note double check for activity on the plug - ie, make sure that plug is "hot" with the ignition turned off - some cars cut all power to accessory ports to protect the battery.
They make some cables that hardwire the battery + battery tender or similar unit to an external plug that you can plug into an extension cable - all with the hood shut/doors locked. Might try looking at some of the RV sites and marine/booting supply places - as they have tons of battery maintenance solutions.
Easy_driver
Thank you.
I assume the car will be garaged somewhere close to an electrical outlet? I prefer to make electrical connections directly to the battery - though since we are not talking about a whole lot of current, should be fine through the cigarette lighter plug (note double check for activity on the plug - ie, make sure that plug is "hot" with the ignition turned off - some cars cut all power to accessory ports to protect the battery.They make some cables that hardwire the battery + battery tender or similar unit to an external plug that you can plug into an extension cable - all with the hood shut/doors locked. Might try looking at some of the RV sites and marine/booting supply places - as they have tons of battery maintenance solutions.
I'm a little confused as to how the Corolla is passing EPA and CARB emissions. I thought they had to hand over virgin 0 mile cars for that.
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