Manual Transmission Trouble - 2001 Ce - Toyota Corolla, Chevy Prizm (1998-2008)

Hello all, I'm a new Corolla owner.

I recently bought my 54,000 mile, manual transmission 2001 CE Corolla. It's a great car, but I'm afraid there may be something wrong with the transmission. I don't know the car's service or usage history because I bought it from someone who in turn bought it from a repossessed vehicle auction.

Shifting from 3rd to 4th gear while the car is cold lags, and sometimes altogether fails:

I depress the clutch pedal, move the stick from 3rd to 4th, lightly depress the accelerator, remove my foot from the clutch, and the car slows down considerably. Depressing the accelerator does nothing (no change in RPM, no speed increase) until the gear "catches" at which point I'm travelling at a slower speed and need to downshift anyway. This problem sometimes manifests itself between 1st and 2nd and 2nd and 3rd, which is very dangerous. Earlier today I was almost sideswiped making a left turn on a busy street.

Like I said, I don't know the service or usage history. I also don't know much about maintaining cars. What are the first things I should check? Where would you get it repaired? Could this be a transmission fluid problem? Would that mean I'd need a transmission flush? How much would that cost?

Basically, how can I make sure the local Firestone doesn't recognize I don't know my stuff and fleece me?

Thanks a lot for any feedback,

John

1. poor shift quality is caused when the fluid is thick because its cold, its a fact of life, but try changing the fluid.

2. it sounds like your clutch is slipping some, check the hydrolic system for air 1st and then check into the disc/flywheel/pressure plate.

Bikeman982

If it is actually the transmission it could be due to fluid problems. I suggest you do a quick check of the quantity and quality of your transmission fluid.

It could also be related to your engine and not your transmission - it just may occur during the times that you shift.

Further investigation into the symptoms and also the exact car responses might help to better determine possible causes.

1. poor shift quality is caused when the fluid is thick because its cold, its a fact of life, but try changing the fluid.2. it sounds like your clutch is slipping some, check the hydrolic system for air 1st and then check into the disc/flywheel/pressure plate.

Hey, thanks for the input. Are these things the enthusiastic newbie can do by himself without any risk of damaging the car or his person? Is there any sort of reference I can check to find out how the hell to do these things?

I hate seeing things like "change the transmission fluid" and "check your clutch plate" because I know jack about cars. I want to learn so I'm not at the mercy of dealership service centers and dodgy mechanics, but I don't know where to start.

Anyway, what you're saying I should do is:

1.) Change the transmission fluid

If that doesn't fix it,

2.) Check the hydraulic system (which one? the clutch or the brakes or the transmission...? does the Corolla use a "hydraulic clutch" instead of a "cable clutch" ?)

3.) If there's an air leak in the hydraulic system, fix it by... changing the fluid?

If that doesn't fix it,

4.) take the car into a shop to have them take apart the clutch and probably replace it, at ~$800 for parts and labor

Is that about right? I appreciate your responding, I'm just frustrated that I'm a car-idiot.

If it is actually the transmission it could be due to fluid problems. I suggest you do a quick check of the quantity and quality of your transmission fluid. It could also be related to your engine and not your transmission - it just may occur during the times that you shift.

Further investigation into the symptoms and also the exact car responses might help to better determine possible causes.

Before posting here, I did some websearching and found a few resources about evaluating used car transmissions before making a purchase. The few suggestions I found were:

1.) Pull the parking break, put shifter in neutral, start the car; listen for noises; press the gas until the RPM's are at about 3-4k; listen for noises

2.) Start the car. Instead of starting out of 1st gear, start out of 3rd gear. If the car doesn't stall and starts going, you've probably got a bad clutch.

3.) "Test drive" the car. Make sure that accelerating immediately after shifting is smooth. If the RPM surges but you don't accelerate, you've got a bad clutch.

I tried 1, no weird noises. I was afraid to try 2. My results for 3 were a little odd: immediately after I shift and accelerate in the new gear, my RPM's don't surge. Instead, the car slows down, doesn't respond to acceleration until a second later when the gear seems to engage.

Do you have any tests I can do myself to further diagnose the problem? Is there an easy way for me to change the transmission fluid on my own? Thanks for helping out.

Bikeman982

Don't feel bad about not knowing about the car, everyone starts somewhere and we are all still learning.

One of the best things you can do to gain knowledge is to purchase a repair manual for your car and read up on it. It will give you some good insight into what you can and can't do.

As far as changing transmission fluid, it's an easy process. Similar to an oil change - you drain out the old, then add new. A little bit of checks for correct levels and then operational checkouts to make sure it works as it is supposed to.

The checks that you do when driving to see if your car is operating normally is to drive it as if nothing was wrong and then listen and feel for anything that doesn't sound or feel right. If you put it in gear and it hesitates or doesn't accelerate when you step on the gas, could mean something is wrong. If it slips when you are driving and seems to lack power, could also mean something is wrong. Generally cars run smoothly when properly operated unless parts and components are not up to performance levels that they were designed for.

Your Corolla has a hydraulic clutch actuation system. When you depress the clutch pedal, you are pressurizing a master cylinder which transfers hydraulic fluid under pressure to a slave cylinder which actuates the clutch pressure plate fork. When the pedal is depressed, the fork is out and the clutch is disengaged; as the pedal is released, the fork is also released and the pressure plate puts the clutch disk in contact with the flywheel, increasing the friction (clutch "slippage" enough to get the car moving in low gear and then ultimately making full (non-slipping) contact with the flywheel at the point of full clutch release.

You have two possible problems:

1. The fluid in this system is somehow too thick to work in a normally responsive manner.

2. There is excessive wear on your clutch disk itself, it is not making good contact with the flywheel and is slipping badly. A classic symptom of a worn-out clutch.

I think you have no choice but to take your Corolla to a qualified mechanic to diagnose and do necessary repairs. Make sure he is familiar with Corollas and uses nothing but genuine Toyota parts.

Also, if this is such a big problem at only 54,000 miles, it definitely indicates that the car was either poorly maintained or deliberately abused by the first owner. Sorry.

Your Corolla has a hydraulic clutch actuation system. When you depress the clutch pedal, you are pressurizing a master cylinder which transfers hydraulic fluid under pressure to a slave cylinder which actuates the clutch pressure plate fork. When the pedal is depressed, the fork is out and the clutch is disengaged; as the pedal is released, the fork is also released and the pressure plate puts the clutch disk in contact with the flywheel, increasing the friction (clutch "slippage" enough to get the car moving in low gear and then ultimately making full (non-slipping) contact with the flywheel at the point of full clutch release.
You have two possible problems:
1. The fluid in this system is somehow too thick to work in a normally responsive manner.
2. There is excessive wear on your clutch disk itself, it is not making good contact with the flywheel and is slipping badly. A classic symptom of a worn-out clutch.
I think you have no choice but to take your Corolla to a qualified mechanic to diagnose and do necessary repairs. Make sure he is familiar with Corollas and uses nothing but genuine Toyota parts.
Also, if this is such a big problem at only 54,000 miles, it definitely indicates that the car was either poorly maintained or deliberately abused by the first owner. Sorry.

I would not say "deliberately abused", because I have ridden with many people who think they are using the clutch correctly, but in reality they are slipping it badly on each shift.

Your Corolla has a hydraulic clutch actuation system. When you depress the clutch pedal, you are pressurizing a master cylinder which transfers hydraulic fluid under pressure to a slave cylinder which actuates the clutch pressure plate fork. When the pedal is depressed, the fork is out and the clutch is disengaged; as the pedal is released, the fork is also released and the pressure plate puts the clutch disk in contact with the flywheel, increasing the friction (clutch "slippage" enough to get the car moving in low gear and then ultimately making full (non-slipping) contact with the flywheel at the point of full clutch release.
You have two possible problems:
1. The fluid in this system is somehow too thick to work in a normally responsive manner.
2. There is excessive wear on your clutch disk itself, it is not making good contact with the flywheel and is slipping badly. A classic symptom of a worn-out clutch.
I think you have no choice but to take your Corolla to a qualified mechanic to diagnose and do necessary repairs. Make sure he is familiar with Corollas and uses nothing but genuine Toyota parts.

I may be one of those people who doesn't use the manual transmission properly, and I agree that it's likely that the previous owner drove the same way or worse than I do myself (pressing the gas too much with the clutch depressed).

Is replacing the fluid in the hydraulic clutch system the same as replacing the transmission fluid that Bikeman said was quite simple? IE is it something I can buy at Walmart and put in my car myself? If I can't, how much do you guys think it should cost to get it diagnosed/replaced?

I've noticed that when I depress the clutch, I feel a strange, faint spinning sensation with my foot. Could that be the flywheel slipping, or is it nowhere near the pedal itself? Other symptoms of a slipping clutch don't seem to be present, though. The RPM's don't increase significantly when I depress the clutch, and they don't increase without a corresponding increase in speed after I shift gears.

And finally, if the clutch does need replacement =\, how much do you think it should cost? Where would you personally go to have it fixed? Is this the type of part that you can pick up at a salvage yard, or do you have to buy it new?

Thanks a lot for helping me out with this stuff--I already feel like I'm better equipped to handle the guys at the dealership. BTW, is there a particular repair manual you would recommend for a newbie?

Changing the transmission oil is not that bad (Automatic transmission generally use transmission fluid, Manual transmission use transmission oil or gear oil (at least in the case of the Corolla)). At least draining the old lube - refilling it will be a bit tougher, since the fill plug is on the side of the transaxle (most gear oil containers have some nozzle or tube to facilitate refilling of the oil).

Does the clutch do this every single time you drive it? Or only after you have gotten underway a little while. If it is only after you drive a little ways - you might have burnt up the clutch by overheating it. Doesn't take too much effort to burn the clutch - usually accompanied with a acrid/burnt smell. The fix is to have the clutch disc replaced and the flywheel resurfaced - may have to replace pressure plate if enough heat was generated to burn up the clutch. Cost the parts are minimal - about $300 to $400, labor is where it will hurt. I was quoted a clutch replacement as high as $1500 (parts and labor). Don't take it to a general shop - take it to the dealer or import specialist. I've seen too many botched clutch jobs to trust anyone else.

Also - how does the hydralic fluid look (condition, color, odor, etc.) ? The clutch master cylinder is located between the brake master cylinder and the driver's side fender - both reservoirs are on the firewall (partition that separates the passenger cabin and the engine compartment). If the fluid looks brown or heavily discolored (should be clear to pale yellow) - that could be contributing to the accelerated demise of the clutch disc.

For a quick reference guide on most DIY repairs, component placements, specs, etc. Haynes has a manual that runs about $15 retail at most places ($23 MSRP) - link example here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156392455...5Fencoding=UTF8

Bikeman982

Haynes manuals are definitely a good repair manual to get and read. It will enlighten you to some answers to most of your questions. Also has troubleshooting guide and system operation descriptions. I use them for my cars. It can tell you how to do typical tune-ups and routine maintenance. Highly recommended.

Guys, I have a confession to make: I'M A @#$@#$ING MORON. The car was nearly out of gas. I filled it up this morning on the way to work--problem solved.

Wow, I'm so sorry for wasting your time. Thanks a lot for responding and giving me so much useful information--hopefully it will come in handy when someone who isn't an idiot does some searches.

I'll definitely be looking into the Hayes' manual at a local bookstore so I can browse through it and make sure it's useful for jackasses.

Thanks and sorry,

John

Speaking of gas... how many days does your tank last you?

Bikeman982

Guys, I have a confession to make: I'M A @#$@#$ING MORON. The car was nearly out of gas. I filled it up this morning on the way to work--problem solved.
Wow, I'm so sorry for wasting your time. Thanks a lot for responding and giving me so much useful information--hopefully it will come in handy when someone who isn't an idiot does some searches.
I'll definitely be looking into the Hayes' manual at a local bookstore so I can browse through it and make sure it's useful for jackasses.
Thanks and sorry,
John

Doesn't your car have one of those fuel gauge little "idiot" lights that come on when your tank gets down below a certain level?

It does have a fuel gauge light, but I thought I still had a good 2 gallons left in the tank. I believe the light comes on when there are two gallons left. I somehow forgot to account for an unusual 40 mile trip I made that threw my whole refilling schedule off.

My tank usually lasts for a good 350 miles if I fill it up when the fuel light comes on, which I will always be doing from now on. That's about a week and half's worth of use for me, or ~30 mpg.

This whole thing has made me curious, now, though: does the car consume more fuel in 4th gear at 35 mph than in 3rd gear at the same speed? What's the best time to shift in each gear to maximize fuel economy?

Your Corolla should consume less fuel in 4th gear at 35 MPH than in 3rd. When I had my '01 Corolla LE with the 5-speed manual, I would usually be in 4th gear at around 32 MPH and in 5th at around 45. On level ground, I'd been able to go as slow as the high 30's in 5th gear and still accelerate without "lugging" the engine. However, all that shifting with that stiff hydraulic clutch mechanism was a pain -- literally -- in the left knee. I'm glad I have my '03 with automatic.

Your Corolla should consume less fuel in 4th gear at 35 MPH than in 3rd. When I had my '01 Corolla LE with the 5-speed manual, I would usually be in 4th gear at around 32 MPH and in 5th at around 45. On level ground, I'd been able to go as slow as the high 30's in 5th gear and still accelerate without "lugging" the engine. However, all that shifting with that stiff hydraulic clutch mechanism was a pain -- literally -- in the left knee. I'm glad I have my '03 with automatic.

Your numbers align with mine almost exactly as far as "lugging" is concerned. But this experience with limited fuel in the tank resulting in extreme lugging in 4th gear at around 35 (with no lugging in 3rd at the same speed and fuel levels) made me think maybe the engine consumes more gas in 4th at 35. I guess it's something else?

It's strange that you found the clutch to be uncomfortable to operate. For me, it's a welcome change from the Integra I was driving before. I think that uses a cable clutch system instead of a hydraulic clutch system, but it requires a lot more effort to fully depress the clutch in my Integra. The pedal is stiffer and it travels a longer distance before coming into contact with the floor of the car.

That's another thing I've wondered--why is it that these "performance" clutches tend to be so "deep"? I drove an M Roadster once, and the clutch had nearly a *foot* of clearance from the floor of the car. Does a deeper clutch give you more control somehow?

Most performance clutches and pressure plates are designed for higher holding strength - they tend to be a bit heavier (springs are stronger) and sometimes require more pedal travel to add some leverage. But not always - some kits have more holding power with almost the same effort. BMWs seem to have long pedal travel compared to Honda and Toyota products.

Bikeman982

It does have a fuel gauge light, but I thought I still had a good 2 gallons left in the tank. I believe the light comes on when there are two gallons left. I somehow forgot to account for an unusual 40 mile trip I made that threw my whole refilling schedule off.
My tank usually lasts for a good 350 miles if I fill it up when the fuel light comes on, which I will always be doing from now on. That's about a week and half's worth of use for me, or ~30 mpg.
This whole thing has made me curious, now, though: does the car consume more fuel in 4th gear at 35 mph than in 3rd gear at the same speed? What's the best time to shift in each gear to maximize fuel economy?

My method is to reset the trip meter after I refill with gas. If the low fuel light comes on I can see how many miles I have gone and I fill it up everytime I get gas. So far I have never run out filling it up soon after the light comes on. I usually get about 25 - 26 MPG and can get about 300 miles before I fill it up.

My car is an automatic so it shifts on it's own.