Scion

Get the Avalon. Scion is for kids. They are wannabe boy toys and they have no haggle prices. I was interested in the Xa because it is basicly a Echo with a really nice stereo. I went to the dealer to look at one and they added so much ricer crap, it made the sticker price sky high. I think it was over 18K. INSAIN!!!!

I'm really disapointed in how Toyota is dealing with the Scions. I'll never look at one again and I wish I could bitchslap Toyota for adding crap and rasing prices on what could have been a decent car. I also hate the ads.

ycr, which Scion? xB? xA? tC? Scion is Toyota's entry-level brand; not nearly the sport/luxury vehicles Acura and Inifiniti are. (Acura is Honda's upmarket brand, Infiniti is Nissan's, and Lexus is Toyota's) BTW, none of the Scions cost nearly as much as a Toyota Avalon. Scions go for around 13-17k depending on model, Avalon mid-20s to 30k. A friend has a Scion tC and she loves it. Camry engine, nice coupe, closest thing to a Celica we have these days.

GVR-She liked the no-haggle pricing, (she ordered her car stock- no extras) and she and many of her fellow tCers at the Edmunds forum are middle aged! You are absolutely right about the Scions that land at dealerships loaded up with too much stuff...I've seen it at my own dealership. xA is cool- much nicer than the forthcoming Yaris. Sorry you had a bad experience when you looked at one. I actually like the boxy xB, too.

My aunt has an xA and really likes it. She got a dark grey and it looks nice next to my dark grey 05, but it definately looks 'hipper' or more 'modern' or something. I like it, but I like my corolla too.

Ya I also have liked what i have seen from the xA and xC (B not so much). My assumption is that they are made from pretty much similar parts as other Toyota's but just with different marketing and not so conservative apperance.

As far as quality/long term durabilty....that i can not speak of. I would assume Toyota engineer's wouldn't drop the ball completely...but then again its entry level, for young adults, and is a new model/make of car...so hard to say what will end up happening.

I didn't like the xA and the xB's but the tC isn't too bad. I was thinking about trading my corolla in for one but then I realized that I liked not having a car payment (heh).

JD Power named tC most reliable sporty car. No surprise, since as I mentioned in an earlier post, it has a Camry engine. xA's first year was not so good, better this year. xA and xB both have an Echo engine standard, but the xB is available with a more powerful engine - can't remember where it's derived from, though...They call that version the "Release."

I strongly considered the Scion tC before settling for the RAV4, but it didn't offer the same utility, naturally being a sport coupe. Wifey hated the xB, and I wasn't nuts about it either - sort of resembled a large Tonka toy and the only people I saw that owned them were middle-aged women who'd otherwise buy a station wagon or minivan. The xA was too small, okay for passengers but hardly any cargo space. I liked the Matrix but again, the utility inadequate and Wifey thought it looked like an overpriced Corolla trying to morph into a station wagon.

I looked at a 4Runner, nice but too steep as far as price went and too big for the garage. Same with the Highlander, which I feel is overpriced for what it is. Didn't even bother with the Sequoia and Land Cruiser for obvious reasons. Liked the Tacoma Pre-Runner with the cab-&-a-half configuration, but was too high in price and no-go for the garage.

I could have settled for a Corolla or base Camry instead of the RAV, but I wanted a higher view of the road ahead and I didn't like having to hunker down to enter the cockpit of Wifey's Corolla. Now that I know that the FJ40 is making a comeback I might consider that for the next new car.

The xA looks cool, but given that 90% of the people driving Scions are complete morons on the road... insurance is probably killer on that car.

As an aside, I got a letter from my insurance company that they are raising my rates because their claim rates on Corollas have been higher than expected. It's not because of my driving... but because of some of you other f--**ers. Those who belong to that category... please start driving responsibly, because it really p***sses me off that I'm paying for your irresponsibility.

Kanling, I've gotten that same letter about my ins. premiums three times since I bought my car. It's getting old.

The Corollas cost a LOT to fix. However, our car got rearended, someone elses insurance paid for everything, and our insurance never went up.

I think I would be shopping for a new insurance company. They should never raise your rates untill you have done something to deserve it. It sounds like dirty polictics to me. Reparing cars isn't what cost insurance companies the big bucks. It's medical cost and law suits. The Corolla might fall apart, but they don't even cost that much to replace. Not compared to other cars.

I think that it means that the insurance companies are finding that a lot of Corolla drivers are crashing into other people, which means repair bills AND plenty of medical bills, too.

It doesn't always seem fair, but that's the way insurance works. If the companies have bad experience the average Corolla... all Corolla drivers will pay more. Just like 16 year old boys pay more than 45 year old married women- accident or not.

I'd be suspicious if your company DIDN'T raise its rates in the last couple of years. It may mean they were overcharging to begin with.

Tip: Before buying a car, call your insurance company and ask them how much it will be to insure the models you are considering. I'll bet a Civic still costs more than a Corolla for insurance.

What was the original topic again?

My ins. co. 's explanation in all three cases was that Corolla was expensive to fix, period. That still doesn't seem fair. Raise my rates if I mess up, fine, I'll accept that, but to penalize me for body shop costs for an entire model of car seems odd. Who knows. The good news is that they recently lowered my premium, though they didn't explain why. ???

Oh, the original topic was Scions.

I think this was about the Scion?

Cars are expensive to fix...

Oh yeah...

I think Scions are marketed to a totally different population than Avalons, Infinitis, and Acura.

The others are semi-luxury, semi-rich people cars for the mid 30s type who doesn't mind having a lot of debt hanging over his head. Scion is for mid 20s type who doesn't mind having a lot of debt hanging over his head.

The Toyota salesman that sold me the RAV explained that the SCIONs are marketed to appeal to the twentysomethings. In fact, just prior to rolling them out, he attended a training seminar to learn how to work with the Generation Y crowd they hoped would be beating a path to their door.

He said it was Toyota's contention that they were missing out on the Gen Ys because the name recognition wasn't appealing to them. They thought that the younger car buyers wouldn't want the same car their parents would buy, and the SCION's concept from design to sales was conceived using a blank slate.

Since a new generation of buyers would have a different attitude and desires than their predecessors, SCIONs had to have a service concept that met these different demands. The SCION website allows them to select the model, the desired options, etc. and then the customers would be showing up at the showroom with a printout, ready to order.

When the traditional method of car buying meant searching a dealer's lot, test-driving several models, and haggling over the "best price" - the SCION concept gave the dealer the advantage of setting the price bar before a buyer showed up. Moreover, the website would indicate if the desired model was in stock before venturing to the dealer.

Time will tell if the concept is successful in appealing to Gen Y buyers. Meanwhile, the only people I've seen buying the xBs are older than I am...

apparently from what i have read, the toyota name is a bit stodgy for the younger set. so being a big corp, toyota just made more new toyotas rebadged as scion, made the website and literature more cool and appealing to the younger crowd and now hopes to sell a gob of them. really haven't seen many of them in my area. the A is kinda neat-really wish that the corolla came as a 4door hatch. the B i think would be really practical and hold alot of stuff with that rear seat folded down. it's so ugly that it's kinda cute. i remember laughing out loud when i saw my first one on the road. it always reminds me of either an old fashioned milk delivery van or an ice cream truck. i bet ya it's a scream to watch going down the freeway at 60 mph. the C is ok but i'm not big on 2 door sporty looking coupes anymore since i've made it to my 50's. i really could see me buying a B one of these days. but of course i still have 53 more payments to go on my corolla b4 i even think about getting a new vehicle. heaven knows what will be available then but i know that i will always go with toyota. REALLY want a rav4 but they're out of my budget. but for what you get for the doe coupled with the reliability factor, i think that corolla is unbeatable.

I really do think Scion is Toyota's biggest mistake. The Xb seems to be selling sort of well cause I do see a few of them on the road, but overall, I really don't see that many of them.

All Toyota needs to do is make real sporty Toyota's that don't break the bank. I don't think any automaker has figured out that older RWD cars still have a really high demand. Any RWD import still holds a lot of value today. More then it should anyway. Toyota needs to bring back the Corolla GTS, the Celica GTS RWD versions, and only price them 3000 above what a FWD version would cost cause really, it doesn't take that much more to make a car RWD. I don't give a ratts @ss about drifting, but newer RWD light weight imports would sell big time. They need LSD stock, and they need TRD support. They WILL sell. Toyota lost Celica sales cause they were over priced FWD cars and the MR2 Spyder was was over priced for not having the GT-S engine.

Scions are basicly factory rice cars and they do have a small market, but more young kids today want real performing cars. Anyone notice how many SRT-4s are on the road? Toyota could sell a good solid RWD car with nice suspention and a real LSD and then let the owners buy TRD SCer for more power. Toyota doesn't realize how many 05/06 Corolla owners are waiting to throw down money on a TRD SCer that isn't avaliable yet.

Toyota just assumed that only old people like Corolla's and that simple isn't true. If they started selling RWD versions again, they would sell every single one of them quickly. I'm 31 years old, I HATE ricy cars, fake wannabe tunners, but I do like our 5sp LE. I already got used XRS rims and tires for it and a TRD filter. Even tho nothing short of a SCer is going to add a lot of power, it's light and it has some nice suspention support for it. In the end, I want to do TRD springs, KYB GR2 shocks, sway bars, and upgraded tires. A TRD axle back exhaust would be nice, but that sure is over priced. It will never be a fast car, but just with the new rims and tires is so much more enjoyable to drive then stock. For someone who doesn't really break the speed limit too much, haveing a car that can be tossed around and corner well is really fun. Having a RWD version with LSD and 4:10 gears (like the really old supra had) would be so much nicer. I also think having a car that handles great is so much safer too. For younger import guys, it's not just about going really fast. Sometimes it is, but the MX-5 sells really well and it started out with a 1.6l, then got a 1.8l, and for 06 it gets a 2.0l 4cyl engine, but it's popular cause it handles so freaken well. It doesn't have to be fast to be a true performer. Lots of young kids do solo II autocross and for that, suspention helps out way more then power does.

Insurance is key. The youth market already spends a small fortune in liability coverage alone, and I'm not even thinking about the street tuner and drift sects.

Toyota won't in good common sense or conscience produce and market a car that encourages a younger buyer to become a freelance daredevil. The insurance costs would exceed the note payment for a twentysomething buyer.

Let 'em hunt down an older RWD rice burner at a salvage yard and drift/wreck it to their heart's content. Chances are they aren't looking for those to drive to school/work every day anyway.

Insurance is key. The youth market already spends a small fortune in liability coverage alone, and I'm not even thinking about the street tuner and drift sects.

Toyota won't in good common sense or conscience produce and market a car that encourages a younger buyer to become a freelance daredevil. The insurance costs would exceed the note payment for a twentysomething buyer.

Let 'em hunt down an older RWD rice burner at a salvage yard and drift/wreck it to their heart's content. Chances are they aren't looking for those to drive to school/work every day anyway.

RWD doesn't = rice burner. Insurance companies ask owners (on sporty type cars) if they are going to race them. I guess they could lie, but then they could be dropped for life if they got in trouble on the track.

Toyota made a stupid car line to try and connect with the youth. The only people they have connected with is young people who only buy by image. It might be the options, or the stereo, or maybe even the way the car looks, but they don't really buy it because of the way they drive.

I think Toyota would have better luck making cars that just drive better. I would rather have a new RWD Corolla, but I can't buy one. So, I'm in the market for a used Mustang because it's a RWD car and that's what I want. A RWD acually drives nicer. Putting steering and power to the same wheels only gains in less drivetrain loss. That's the only good thing about it. Now days traction control is becomming standard and RWD with LSD and traction control would be plenty safe.

I'm a really big Toyota fan because they build a great Camery and Corolla, but tring to sell silly Scions isn't helping the Toyota image at all. If anything it is hurting it. Also, I can't buy the type of car I want from Toyota because they don't make it. I know I'm not alone on this. Lots of import fans end up getting Mustangs because they want RWD and they just arn't made anymore by Toyota and others.. Toyota's and others loss.

RWD doesn't = bad drivers either. Stupid kids will be stupid and most of them drive Honda's

I've noticed Toyota and other Japanese car brands make cars in other countries that they don't sell in the U.S.

I am mollified when I see a big GMC SUV on Japan's narrow roads...(they don't even have sidewalks!!)

I would absolutely love a RWD corolla. Unfortunately, I think FWD vehicles are easier and cheaper to produce than RWD so there is really no reason for car makers to go for the RWD design from a financial point of view. As much as we love Toyota, they are after all a corporation and their main purpose when it gets boiled down is to increase their profit margines.

Toyota used to sell a RWD Corolla back in the 80s. It really isn't that hard to make a car RWD and it doesn't cost that much more. A drive shaft and rear axle doesn't cost that much more. Also, it's better to have a shifter at the transmission then using shifter cables for FWD.

I'm not expecting for Toyota to ever make a RWD Corolla or Celica ever again, but I don't understand why they stopped in the first place. As far as making money. Selling cars makes money and a RWD Corolla would sell big time. Better then Scions do anyway. That's really what this thred is about. It's easier to use a known name like Toyota and just make sportier cars then it is to try and launch a new car line under a different name.