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twinky64

Tires Always Screwy After Service...

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Every time my tires are tampered with (ie change brakes, rotation, etc.) I always have to balance them again and again and also align them over and over. Does anybody else have this problem? I find this kinda wierd.

Also, is it normal to have a little vibration in the steering wheel going freeway speeds or is balancing precise enough to get rid of vibration at whatever speeds (45mph -160mph)?

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What kind and size of wheels/tires do you have?

 

I've never had to rebalance a tire or realign the suspension after rotating them or working on the brakes. A tire will run a bit differently after you rotate them, but should quickly feel normal after a weeks worth of driving or less.

 

If you have to rebalance/realign after every tire/wheel removal - you have a serious problem. Could be as simple as the lugnuts coming loose (common with alloy wheels, after putting the wheels back on, you should recheck them after a 100-150 miles. Using the proper lugnuts and torque are also very important.

 

If these are the OEM wheels steel wheels with OEM sized tires - then you may have a suspension and/or steering related problem or the people doing the rebalancing/realigning are doing shoddy work.

 

Vibration at highway speeds are generally not normal - this shows a tire balance issue, hub problem, wheel bearing problem, steering issue, suspension issue, a bad tire, or a bent wheel. Hopefully you meant 45-60MPH, the only what a Corolla can hit 160MPH is to drive it off a cliff.

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Every time my tires are tampered with (ie change brakes, rotation, etc.) I always have to balance them again and again and also align them over and over. Does anybody else have this problem? I find this kinda wierd.

Also, is it normal to have a little vibration in the steering wheel going freeway speeds or is balancing precise enough to get rid of vibration at whatever speeds (45mph -160mph)?

I had no vibration at all with my rims/stock tires until I changed tires this past spring. It took me at least three tries at the local dealer here to get the right front balanced correctly. The final time seems to have worked as the manager made sure an actual mechanic did the job.

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Hmm...mk

 

Fish, they are completely stock (basic cheap black steel) and I haven't lowered my susp at all.

 

So I guess there is something seriously wrong with my car then. Wierd that no mechanics <-plural have said anything about my car. If they have found something wrong, I would think that they would tell me so they can make more money. I have a couple more questions.

1) Do you have to change your alignment when you get a complete set of NEW tires?

2) My car is not aligned and it gets noticably worse when somebody is in the car with me, what does everybody think about that? My car drifts to the right a little bit when I'm driving but when somebody is sitting next to me, the car drifts even further to the right by what seems to be 2 fold. Does this have anything to do with my passenger rear strut being shot?

3) Has anybody ever changed the tire on the rim itself by deflating, taking off the tire, then putting the tire back on the other way (assuming symmetrical), and inflate it again? Can you even do this (ie are symmetrical treads still have a set postition to turn?) If so, how much did it cost? Do you have to balance them again? I am thinking about doing this because the shoulders on my tires are always the first to go bald and yet I still have alot of meat left on the middle of the tread and on the inside shoulder.

 

4) when rotors are warped and you want to fix them, is that process called "turning"? Like to turn rotors.

Edited by twinky64

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1) Do you have to change your alignment when you get a complete set of NEW tires?

If the alignment was fine before the new tires went on - then there is no reason to have it done afterwards. Many place "recommend" an alignment after getting new tires - most of the time it is to just squeeze more money out of you.

 

2) My car is not aligned and it gets noticably worse when somebody is in the car with me, what does everybody think about that? My car drifts to the right a little bit when I'm driving but when somebody is sitting next to me, the car drifts even further to the right by what seems to be 2 fold. Does this have anything to do with my passenger rear strut being shot?

I though you had to align the car over and over again? Any case, if the alignment changes due to an extra passenger or two - then you have a suspension related problem for sure, could be more than just the the strut, but having a blown strut is not helping things at all - not to mention very unsafe.

 

3) Has anybody ever changed the tire on the rim itself by deflating, taking off the tire, then putting the tire back on the other way (assuming symmetrical), and inflate it again? Can you even do this (ie are symmetrical treads still have a set postition to turn?) If so, how much did it cost? Do you have to balance them again? I am thinking about doing this because the shoulders on my tires are always the first to go bald and yet I still have alot of meat left on the middle of the tread and on the inside shoulder.

I know a few peope that have done that - turn a symetrical tire around to get more life out of it or to even out the wear. Not worth the trouble. Tires are cheap - best to fix the problem causing the tires to wear in that manner. Also, tires will have a "nap" to them from turning in one particular direction most of the time.

If you flip them around, the tire will wear excessively fast for a little while and introduce issues like poor fuel economy and handling issues, until the tire starts to wear down a bit. If any part fo the tire is worn down to the wear bars or close to it - scrap the tire. Just because there is still meat on the tire elsewhere, you will not have enough material on hte really worn section - ie, better chance to suffer a blow-out or have poor handling in the wet or low traction surfaces. Cost is pretty minimal - to unmount, remount, and balance - costs about $20/tire.

 

4) when rotors are warped and you want to fix them, is that process called "turning"? Like to turn rotors.

Correct - as long as the rotor is above the minimum wear thickness, you can turn down the rotors. Keep in mind that doing so will also make it that much easier to warp the rotors. Since the rotors have less mass and as such less heat capacity, you'll find that they will act differently. I usually get about two sets of pads on the rotor - on the third set, I replace both pads and rotors, I don't cut or turn them at all. OEM rotors only give you 2mm worth of wear (1mm per side) before you have to scrap them (new rotors are 22mm thick, scrap when they wear to 20mm thick). Used to be that you could turn down the rotra a few times before you ran into trouble, but they are too thin now (saves weight and cost). If the rotors are fairly new - then you might be able to get a single cut - hard to say for sure. Think of it this way - everytime they turn down a rotor, they generally remove a minimum of about 10 thousandths to 20 thousandths of an inch. Doesn't sound like much, but you can "feel" a warped rotors at 20 thousandths of an inch or about 0.05mm - to effectively get rid of that variation, you have to turn down the rotor at least to that variation - with only 1mm of meat to spare, doesn't leave too much for you. If the runout is way past 0.05mm - then the rotor is scrap.

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Every time my tires are tampered with (ie change brakes, rotation, etc.) I always have to balance them again and again and also align them over and over. Does anybody else have this problem? I find this kinda wierd.

Also, is it normal to have a little vibration in the steering wheel going freeway speeds or is balancing precise enough to get rid of vibration at whatever speeds (45mph -160mph)?

 

Your steering should not have any vibration at freeway speeds.

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I just experienced the hardest braking of my life down here in so.cal. Traffic was going along at 85mph and around a corner, traffic was stopped. I had broke into the new rotors and pads for about 500miles. I had to slow from 85 to 0 as fast as I could and as best I could without hitting the cars in front of me. So I braked just enough that I didn't lock them, pulled the hand brake a little and downshifted into 3rd gear for enging braking. You know that ghost sound you get when you brake with slotted and drilled rotors? Well after a certain pressure point, I don't think it was making that sound anymore :lol: Just hard grinding so it seemed. They still do now but not in that particular instance. They appear to not be cracked. Anyhow, they're warped, had them installed 2 weeks ago and now they are warped. So my question, .05mm is enough to feel in the pedal and steering wheel (which i do feel), is it worth getting them turned? Will my braking performance just go out due to the warp?

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Yup, just a little variation can be felt through the wheel and brake pedal as you are braking. Could also be the transfer layer on the rotor has eroded away unevenly - making it feel like the rotor is warped. Might try driving around for a few days and see if the pulsing goes away - if not, then you might have to either take them in to be turned assuming there is enough material on the rotor to safely turn (NOTE that some shops don't like turning drilled/slotted rotors - if they complain, find another shop, equipment is the same, just they have to cut it more carefully) or just get new replacement rotors.

 

Braking performance will suffer with warped brakes - a pad that is not making good contact with the rotor is not doing you any good.

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I just experienced the hardest braking of my life down here in so.cal. Traffic was going along at 85mph and around a corner, traffic was stopped. I had broke into the new rotors and pads for about 500miles. I had to slow from 85 to 0 as fast as I could and as best I could without hitting the cars in front of me. So I braked just enough that I didn't lock them, pulled the hand brake a little and downshifted into 3rd gear for enging braking. You know that ghost sound you get when you brake with slotted and drilled rotors? Well after a certain pressure point, I don't think it was making that sound anymore :lol: Just hard grinding so it seemed. They still do now but not in that particular instance. They appear to not be cracked. Anyhow, they're warped, had them installed 2 weeks ago and now they are warped. So my question, .05mm is enough to feel in the pedal and steering wheel (which i do feel), is it worth getting them turned? Will my braking performance just go out due to the warp?

 

 

The problem with braking that hard on the freeway is the car behind you. You may stop in time to avoid hitting someone, but watch out for the rear-end.

I would get the rotors turned down so that they are not warped, or else replaced. Don't settle for anything but the best when it comes to stopping the car and saving your life (or someone elses).

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Ok so I changed my blown strut and the car was still drifting to the right a little. I got my balance checked and they all are zeroed out. I got a free alignment check and the mechanic told me I needed all 4 wheels aligned. Well, the problem got worst. The vibration in the steering wheel is noticably worst at highway speeds. My car still kinda drifts to the right but now the steering wheel isn't dead center. What the hell? I tell you man, something ALWAYS screws up when mechanics are screwing around with my tires. Never fails so of course this would come to no surprise to me.

Edited by twinky64

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Get to another mechanic - or if you have the paperwork with the alignment results - post those. The 8th gen Corolla has a very specific range that must be met - very sensitive to bad alignments and wheel balance.

 

Vibration in the steering wheel means you have a either a bad tire, bent wheel, or lugs on wrong (too tight or too loose). Could also be something wrong with the suspension, brakes, or steering components - but since it immediately got worse after an alignment - I'd got look into the wheel/tire components.

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Alignments are supposed to make the car track straighter, not worse.

I question the quality of the alignment you got.

Edited by Bikeman982

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Alignments are supposed to make the car track straighter, not worse.

I question the quality of the alignment you got.

me too. But everytime i get an alignment, I get it from somebody else because something always screws up. My car is just a friken wierd case! I cannot get it down right. If i have good alignment then my wheel vibrates. If my wheel doesn't vibrate then my alignment is screwed up or both at the same time.

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I'd double check the tire balance - best way to do them is with a road force system - one that presses the tire against a rolling drum to measure "real world" aspects of the tire and to measure forces generated in such a scenario. If the tires are as heavily worn as they are - the tech should have refused the alignment and tire balance - since even driving a few miles will change the settings.

 

For hard to balance, hard to align cars - have to make sure the tire and wheels are perfect (even wear, wheels true, no plugs, no retreads, check for water or mud in tire). They also have to make sure the suspension is on (no loose or worn components) and the hubs are withing in spec. If all gets the green light the specs are as follows in this image:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...ignmentspec.jpg

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I'd double check the tire balance - best way to do them is with a road force system - one that presses the tire against a rolling drum to measure "real world" aspects of the tire and to measure forces generated in such a scenario. If the tires are as heavily worn as they are - the tech should have refused the alignment and tire balance - since even driving a few miles will change the settings.

 

For hard to balance, hard to align cars - have to make sure the tire and wheels are perfect (even wear, wheels true, no plugs, no retreads, check for water or mud in tire). They also have to make sure the suspension is on (no loose or worn components) and the hubs are withing in spec. If all gets the green light the specs are as follows in this image:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...ignmentspec.jpg

Is this alignment spec for a 98 corolla? I took my car back to Big-O Tires and the alignment and balance is all green. The manager then suggested that the next less expensive factor is a defective tire due to a radial pull. It sucks because I have to pay for it. It is not covered by the warranty per manager's explanation eventhough I got the tires from the same place. Hmmm. I've had these tires for a while, the drift isn't too too bad but bad enough that when driving off the freeway, I must have a hand on the wheel at all times or else I'll get into an accident.

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