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By cirrus, September 3, 2015



While I was having the rear drums turned down as one went "eggo" the dealer said the front rotors were also abit twisted. So they turned those too and replaced the pads. Now when I come to a slow stop the noise from the things is irritating me. Sounds like they use a hard metal pad or is it because the rotors were turned?

Do the dealers have different pads they can put on?

I solved this issue with our 2005 by going to organic pads but I don't want to do that this time.

TIA

The OEM front pads are a composite ceramic material - should be pretty quiet compared to anything you can get aftermarket. Organic would definitely be "softer" - but you'd loose some high temperature stability and overall dusting resistance.

That said, I'm surprised that you found the drums to be out of round. Drums are pretty tough to distort like that, takes a very specific set of conditions to do that. Did they happen to mention by how much they were egg'd out? Even if you drove a lengthy highway commute with the parking brake engaged - unless the rear end was immediately quenched in ice cold water at the end, they will still be perfectly round.

Turning down rotors are the same way - did they mention how much run out they measured? Factory specs do allow for some surface refinishing, removing the tiniest bit of material to allow a new pad to properly transfer some of its material to the rotor face, to ensure a even transfer layer for proper braking action.

With pretty much any rotor out there, if it is warped enough that it has to be turned down to get back into spec - you are way further ahead if you just outright replace them. The different between a brand new rotor and one that is too thin is on the order of a couple of mm of material. Depending on how badly "warped " the rotor is, they can easily get that rotor too thin (still outside the minimum thickness, but now much easier to warp again - especially if they don't get the surface finish correct).

On my 8th gen, even with the typical treatment, eg. rotor scored, turn down 0.060" - then fast cut at 0.002"-0.008" to get the correct RA - if I did that to a brand new rotor, I've just shortened it life by half.

Assuming they put on new OEM pads - there really isn't a big procedure to bed those in - just drive normally, avoiding abrupt and lengthy high-speed stops. Those pads are already pre-sintered, so they bed in almost immediately.

But much of this is also dependent on the rotor face finish. If the shop didn't get the right surface finish - usually referred to as roughness average (RA) - in the approved range (usually between 40 to 80 microinches) - then the pad bedding process can be disrupted. For RA, lower numbers usually preferable - I personally shoot for 50-60 with a ceramic or organic pad, lower for a more aggressive one - but anything lower than 20-30 - basically just grinding material, no need to go that rough. Problem is - you cannot visually tell the difference between 40 or 80.

I have to assume that they used the OEM pads and installed the pads correctly. That leaves just the work they did on the rotor. If the finish RA is off or if they didn't cut enough material or removed too much material - you'll get weird braking behavior - like excessive noise, squealing, hard braking, inconsistent braking, pulling, etc.

Hmmm....for some reason I'm not seeing new replies to the messages unless I open them.

I need to find out what they used....as they did our 2005 and this same issue happened. And one time my indi guy did our Honda and it sorta had the same sound but not as bad and he used ceramic pads. With the 2005 and the Honda I replaced them with organics and both were great.

This miffs me its happened again. At times its not bad....other times holy god...sounds like a freighter running aground!

Issue is I lost both my service guys at Toy who were former mechanics so when we talked "shop" they could tell me everything. Like how much stuff was out or round..ect. I don't believe the fronts were bad enough to do anything....and I regret not just telling them to do the backs and leave the fronts alone.

I wonder if the issue might be the heavy use of the safety systems this past winter....the three of them were pounding away at those brakes as I did a lot of winter driving in real bad conditions. I just have to believe that heats up those pads good. And why when I read the reliability issues almost everyone is having brake issue now.

I'd try replacing the OEM pads with the organics again but I believe with ABS systems I just can't push in the caliper piston...need to use the bleed screws which shouldn't be corroded on yet but still worries me messing with those things. My buddy toasted his ABS module on his Jetta by pushing the fluid back up and not using the bleeder screw and the price to fix it was $$$$$.

Thanks Fish!

Update.......

I brought the car back to the dealer....they showed me how the rotors didn't turn that great....which is probably causing the vibration of the pads which they admit is really loud.

So they will get new rotors. My buddy who I picked up was laughing saying...."good one...and when you get it back...now about $300 poorer with new rotors it will still make the same noise as they are using very hard pads that I don't believe are even Toy OEM pads". Man hope he's wrong. And I forgot to ask what the OEM rotors are going to cost....he's probably right.....$$$$.

Update 2

I took off one wheel....holy god...what turned those things....a T-Rex gnawing on them??!!!! Horrible looking. They better get new cutters for their turning machine.

I'm assuming that they used the machine that turns the rotor on the vehicle itself:

- advantage is that it is pretty goof-proof, as it trues itself to the vehicle

- disadvantage, the tech has to be 100% that the other components, like the hub, are all inside of spec - otherwise everything will be off

Probably better off with the replacement rotors - hopefully they will spot you the cost of new pads and discount the rotors as they get more messed up when they turned them down.

As for pushing the caliper back when installing new pads - on Toyota's ABS setup, be a non-issue. You will not damage the system, little different than some other setups out there. Just treat it like a non-ABS system.

OEM rotors are likely sourced from Centric or Brembo. OEM can be pretty pricey, unless they give you preferential pricing. Centric plain, vented rotors - might run between $80-$90 a piece. More of less, depending on where you get them.

Last time I got one of those Powerstop kits - front and rear rotors, ceramic pads, all hardware included for around $200 shipped. Not super aggressive pad material, just a touch harder than OEM, so not much of an adjustment to driving compared to something like a Hawk HPS or Porterfield HPS performance pad.

You know what kills me....is getting older....well yea that's going to kill me too in time....LOL....but I can do this job so easy. I just cant work on my knee's anymore nor bent over like that. I still don't buy there was anything really wrong with the fronts. Back a few years I'd have told them to just do the back drums and I'd take care of the fronts....which I don't believe were bad enough to need any work. But if they did I could have done it and used the pads I like.

You would think they'd give me a break on the parts price....and the old service crew would have....but these new guys wouldn't even consider it acting like..."it happens to some rotors when turning them". Same with the pads. Their boss IS a great guy....knew him from when I was a tech many years back....but he's seldom out front anymore. OTOH....I should go see him anyway. I know he would do something as the new guys don't know my history with the dealership.

Seriously??? The Toy's ABS is no issue? Huh....I thought they were all pretty much the same setup now. And in this case I'd hardly be moving the piston back in as they shoved on brand new pads. But that's good news even though just doing via the bleeder valve shouldnt be any issue as they should have opened them up last week.

Thanks as always Fish!

Yup, can't hurt to ping on their boss. Some of these young-bloods are straight out of school and think they know everything there is to know about working on cars. Occasionally you'll run into one that is on point and is quite good at explaining what needs to be done now, what can wait, and why.

Yeah, Toyota ABS is a non-issue so far. I should point out that this assumes that you regularly flush out the brakes systems, to limit the likelihood of fluid contamination. For most people - this shouldn't be an option - in your case, since the car is so new - should be a non-issue as well. If the brake fluid is highly contaminated - there is a chance that some of that debris will be pushed into the ABS pump/valving and cause them to stick or otherwise take damage. Some systems are more sensitive than others to this debris - from what I've seen, Toyota setups are pretty forgiving compared to other makes.

Granted, the bleeder option mentioned as the "right" way to do it. Though there are some articles that actually say not to crack open the bleeder before pressing in the caliper. Two reasons: 1, there is no guarantee that the fluid displaced by the caliper will only exit via the bleeder, some might make its way "upstream" which sort of defeats the purpose of cracking the bleeder in the first place. 2, you run the risk of introducing air to the system. Meaning spongy brakes if they don't bleed the brakes afterwards. Tech has to spend more time on the braking system.

Either way won't really matter if you plan on flushing the brakes afterwards - as for typical usage - but the time you burn through brake lining, the brake fluid is probably up to be flushed.

I've done all of mine (ABS equipped) by just shoving the piston back slowly. So far - zero issues with ABS (knock on wood).

Yea the issue is with the young crew is they have management making them try to get every penny. Our Honda dealership was wicked that way. I remember in 2008 them saying our 2006 Civic with 14K on it needing four struts at like $1600. I laughed so loud in the waiting room everyone jumped and I told the guy to stop hitting the crack pipe. It was 9 years old with 165K on it....and the car had the same four struts. My old crew at Toy knew me for over 10 years and they never pulled anything. See what happens Friday maybe they'll surprise me.

Thanks for the ABS info! I believe the VW guy never flushed anything and the pads had been on there a long time. I just remember he got whacked a fortune to fix the issue.

Well they took care of me....redid the whole deal for free. The older service women said the machine screwed up a few cars and so they'd never charge me for the new work/parts. And they did it right then as I waited. Seems perfect now. I'm happy.

Awesome! Glad to hear that did right to you in the end. In a perfect world, should have been done the right way the first time, but at least they owned up on the work and made it right.

The old service crew always said how easy I was to deal with over any issue. I spent some time behind the service desk in the 1970's so I know what people can be like when there are issues with their cars. With this issue as long as they admitted something messed up and they are willing to work with me fixing the issue I'm happy. And when the veteran gal behind the desk heard me say I had to use 1/2 vaca day to get it done she had them jump on it right then and an hour later it was done.

So far the brakes feel and sound perfect.....excellent!



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