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Difference In Build Quality? Usa Vs Canada

by Rollah, January 9, 2005

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I just purchased an '05 Corolla LE Automatic today and didn't realize I had purchased an American built car until I got it home. I had assumed that all Toyotas were built in some other country, and was especially shocked to learn that my car was built at the same plant as GM products. Is there any difference in the quality of the Corollas produced at the California plant, and the one in Ontario Canada? I would hope that they would hold employees of the NUMMI plant to the same high standards as Toyota plants elsewhere, but I am a little concerned. Anybody have any info about this?

Mr. Ed

I have a white '04 LE built in California. A friend liked mine so much that she went out and bought a white '04 LE, which we found out later, was built at the Ottawa plant. The cars look exactly alike on the outside. My interior is tan/beige, her's is grey. I have a stick, she has an automatic. As far as quality - both seem very solid. This is my first Toyota and I'm very impressed. So impressed that I am trying to get my wife to sell her LeSabre Limited and get a Camry.

Guest Toyota-san

Welcome to the global economy!

You'll find that some "foreign" cars, like Toyota, actually have more domestic content than an "American" car such as a ford or Chevy.

Thanks for the comparison information Mr. Ed. Since I last posted, I've done a little more research and found out that the Tacoma trucks are also made in California in the same plant. I used to own a '98 Tacoma 2wd and I loved it. It was very reliable and well built. I had to get rid of it though because I started commuting 120 miles a day, and the gas was costing too much. So I sold it and bought a used '92 Tercel that was built in Japan for my daily commute. That car was pretty amazing. 13 years old, 160,000 miles, and not a spot of rust on it! It was still very solid when I traded it in, but the engine was starting to get pretty tired.

Anyway, now that I know I have already owned a NUMMI car, I am not quite as concerned as I was initially. Hopefully my new Corolla provides as many trouble free years as both my Japanese Tercel and Californian Tacoma did! (And outlasts the loan payments!)

Guest model1822

I made sure to get a "J" VIN when I purchased my 05 LE. They had a few around so I figured it couldn't hurt.

Guest Toyota-san

The following article just goes to show its not necessarily WHO builds it but rather how its designed.

Mechanic's Tale: Good Enough?

Japan Inc. knows the advantage of a good four-cylinder engine.

by Douglas Flint

(2003-09-01)

Related Articles:

Mechanic's Tale: Ka-ching of the Road by Douglas Flint (8/18/2003)

Platinum service for a little more copper - it's not a thing of the past.

You can't have a great car without a great engine. A car may be a best seller, as the Ford Taurus was for many years, but it was not a great car. I have never heard anyone pine for the now-gone '92 Taurus, but I do have customers who are wondering how much farther their '92 Honda Accord with 380,000 miles will go. You see, that car had a really great engine, and to this date no American manufacturer has built a great or even good four-cylinder engine, or even come close to a '92 Honda Accord engine.

Why? Part of the problem is attitude. My comic hero Dogbert said something along the lines of, "what's inside a person isn't important because no one can see it." I read a book, "Taurus: The Making of the Car That Saved Ford" by Eric Taub, on the development of the Taurus, in which the Ford execs seemed downright pleased with themselves that they shot down the idea of building a modern overhead-cam engine for the Taurus because it would waste time and money on something consumers couldn't see. So they stuck in the old 3.0-liter pushrod jalopy engine.

Perhaps it was the right decision at the time. Ford needed a winner and the Taurus was a sales winner. But when the money started rolling in they could have developed a modern small six or even, God forbid, a good four capable of powering a four-door sedan. But by then the money was rolling in, and who wants to upset the assembly line, and why spend money when the car is selling? Sometime in the mid-Nineties, Ford spent a billion dollars redesigning the Taurus and still came out with the 3.0-liter pushrod engine. It is still the base engine today. What did they spend a billion dollars on, the really neat center console?

Missing in Detroit

Ford isn't alone. Neither GM nor Chrysler has a good four-cylinder engine. GM seemed to oscillate between push-rod jalopies such as the Chevy Cavalier, buying off-the-shelf technology from second-tier Japanese companies such as Isuzu and Suzuki, or trying really hard to build a good four-cylinder engine, but somehow getting lost trying to reinvent the wheel and coming out with a bucket of blown bolts that is the quad four engine. Chrysler seemed to be on a good track in the late Eighties and early Nineties. Their 2.5-liter overhead cam four was crude and noisy but it could move a four-door sedan well enough. And in the turbo form it had very adequate power. But somewhere they gave up and started using Mitsubishi technology, whose motto should be "mediocre engines for really bland cars."

Without good fours, American carmakers are generally dependent on obsolete sixes to be able to move a car of any size, paying a price in mileage, quality, and smoothness. And whereas the Japanese manufactures started by making really good fours and then working up to sixes and eights, the Americans make all their money on trucks and SUVs whose engine technology often goes back to the Fifties (we're talking crude here) and will lend no help or expertise to building good car engines.

Good design, good materials

The answer is very simple, but it runs counter to everything that is practiced in the auto industry now. I take apart engines and there's no magic in the '92 Honda Accord engine. It's just a really good simple design built with really good materials. I am talking the forgotten science of metallurgy. I can take the head off one of those Honda engines with 200,000 miles on it and the surface looks and feels perfect. A '99 Neon will have pits so deep in the head as to render it unusable. The Cadillac ht4100 engine used pot metal so cheap on the rocker supports that a Chinese toy manufacturer would have rejected it.

And why, on these obsolete pushrod engines whose technology is thirty years old, do head gaskets blow and heads crack when they didn't 30 years ago? Metallurgy! It won't matter how well it's designed or assembled if the accountants make you buy substandard material. Though it's late in the game, resist the temptation to go long and leapfrog over the Japanese. You can't do it - that's what led to the GM Quad 4. Don't try tricks. Swirl combustion technology will not make a bad engine good. Thinner lubricants resulting in less friction will not help. Stop praying for a 42-volt electric system so you can have a camshaft-less electric solenoid valve engine - it's too far away.

Do design and build a rock-solid overhead-cam four of the best materials. I don't care if the engine costs more than you sell the car for. It will be worth it in the long run. Improve the engine every year even if it seems okay. Look at Subaru: they stuck with that silly little pancake four and now it not only powers the Outback, but can go racing in its sports cars. And don't be ashamed to go to junkyards. Buy an old Honda or Toyota engine and copy it. It's a strategy that worked for the Russians for over fifty years.

Guest Corollasroyce

hahah thats a good article toyota-san, thanks!

One of the reasons i went for a corolla, is that it is not made in mexico. My opinion, and consumer reports and JD power seem to back me up, is that when manufactueres start making a model in Mexico, the reliability goes WAY down. Look at the Sentra, for example. Volkswagons are realy well designed, but the reliabiility is terrible as well.

Thanks for the article. Makes me want to go get a '92 Accord instead!!

I'm not convinced they still sell Japan-made Corollas in North America.

Toyota Cambridge (Ontario) wins awards left and right for quality and other things. If I had a choice between Cali-made and Ont-made, I'd opt for the latter.

The build quality is excellent in our 96 and 2000 NUMMI built corollas.

sv11

Max

Tinto- They do indeed sell Japan-built Corollas in the U.S. Some of the people on this board drive 'em. I have the Cambridge- built, and it's been trouble free for the nearly three years I've owned it.

Ti-Jean

Toyota-san,

Very good article.

By the way, did you post your comments in Edmund's lately?

I did so in november. Under the poster name of Minou. My "real" name on all other forums. Apparently was taken on this one. default_sad

That was a good article Mr. Toyota, hehe.

N I think that the Toyotas made in US n Canada still carry very good quality that Toyota is know for. I mean isnt Toyota the most reliable cars out there?

Guest Toyota-san

"Build quality" and "durability" are often two different things. A poorly put together car can last a long time but a tightly screwed together unit can have all sorts of problems.

They key is not so much in assembly. Most automakers, particularly 'yota, have taken the assembly process down to a nearly faultless level. Thus, rather then employ scads of folks to correct other's mistakes, the production process is designed to eliminate them. See Tachi Ohno's notes on this concept.

Thus, its the quality of parts and materials used that actually play a role in how long a car will last. While its true that a good first impression means good assembly quality, its "design quality" that keeps a car sold. And the customer coming back for a future model. GM even admitted it designed certain parts to last no more than 75K. And they wonder why their market share is shrinking and why they had to kill off Oldsmobile.

So, if you use cheap plastic, 4 screws instead of 8, thin metal instead of better gauge, all that can be 100% perfectly bolted together, but it won't last.

Keep that in mind.

So true.

My 2000 Saturn LS was assembled perfectly. The junk parts and defective design turned it into a complete POS at 20K miles.

Toyota uses a KAIZEN- CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT Policy. Which is highly efficient and proven quality control method. That is why car could be made anywhere in the world and it would be of same caliber.

I've had my Corolla LE for two days and I just discovered two defects today. I bought the car in a snowstorm and saw it for the first time without snow on it today. I was looking at it in the sun this afternoon and noticed a huge blemish in the pain on the hood. IT looks like someone threw a coke on the hood at the factory and then clearcoated over it!!! At first I thought it was just road grime, but after rubbing at it several times, I relaized that it was all under the clearcoat. I also noticed that my instrument cluster is crooked and hangs to the right This is the NUMMI built car that I was concerned about in my original post I am very stressed out and dissapointed and i hope the dealership gives me another car to replace it instead of re painting the hood If the car has this many problems already who knows what else they messed up i sorely regret that I didn"t even think to look at VIN numbers when I bought my car THIS SUCKS!!!!!!

  • 1,424 posts

Calm down, there is a TSB for both of these things. If you go to www.corollatoys.com and look under TSBs and Recalls you will see fixes for your problems. The stains on your paint are because the wrap they put on the car to protect it during shipping trapped moisture under your paint. They Toyota dealer will heat it up and the moisture will come out. Let them do this, don't try it yourself, and yes it does work. As for your instrument cluster being off center, there is a TSB for this too. The dealer will simply adjust the cluster so it's back on center.

BTW, don't go into the dealer demanding a new car as a replacemnet, they won't do it. You'll likely not like the response they give you. Legally they aren't obligated to, and since they can fix both of your problems fairly easily, I let them fix them instead of getting a new car that will most likely have the same problems because it will have been built before the changes to fix these problems were made at the factory.

Hmmmm, I hope what you say is true. I was REALLY starting to freak out!!! Hopefully they are easy fixes as you say. Paying big money for a car with a big brown stain on the hood is not cool. And having a crooked cluster is really beginning to piss me off!

Ti-Jean

What about your dealer?

They didn't prep your car?

These 2 defects should be visible very easily and dealt with BEFORE the car is delivered.

I bought it on a Saturday in a snowstorm, and the salesman said that they didn't have any service technicians in, so I would have to bring the car back in for an inspection sticker. What the99contour said makes sense, because my car was sitting in their back lot and it still had all of the protective plastic all over the hood, trunk and roof, as well as on the seats, etc. And it looked like it had been sitting there for a long time too. I think the salesman was the one that actually ripped off all the plastic and put the paper plate on the car.

I have a very early build Canadian 2003 Corolla CE and there has been a few build quality issues with it. Thankfully it has been all comestic and nothing mechanically yet. Of course, when the interior is not put together well, it doesn't really inspire confidence that the rest of the car will hold up.

I do hope that the 9th gen Corolla does continue the trend of lasting forever and holding up to time.

Guest Corollasroyce

I do hope that the 9th gen Corolla does continue the trend of lasting forever and holding up to time.

You and me both man. default_tongue

 

 

I have a 03' Corolla built in NUMMI, and a 04' Matrix built in Canada, both are fine.



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