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Engine Oil

by Bull6791, September 16, 2014

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I changed my oil and I used PENNZOIL ULTRA PLATINUM with WIX filter. This is my first time using synthetic oil.

My question is : not all oil works well with all cars/engines. What would car do or what are signed if oil is not working well in car.

I was just curious.

Frank.

Don't worry - you'll definitely know if the car doesn't do well with the oil.

Most of the time, it will present itself as excessive chattering or clacking noises under the hood. Sometimes the engine seems like it doesn't want to rev, feels like it is filled with molasses, you might even see excessive oil consumption.

UOA will be quite useful here - will tell you how the engine is running. Might have been nice to get a baseline with the old oil first, but not necessary. You can find typical numbers for this engine on the BITOG forums, if you are curious. Or you can post up your UOA, whenever you get it done on this forum, we can chime in and tell you what we see.

You can't get oil that is much better than what you got... If there's a problem, you can't blame it on the oil.

Car seems to be running great with PENNZOIL ULTRA PLATINUM 5w-30 OIL with WIX filter.

I am going to do UOA at 5,000 miles. If they say it can go longer should I leave oil in past 5,000 or know matter what it say change oil at 5,000 miles.

Frank

That is up to you and what exactly they say the total reserve alkalinity is like. With an oil like Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, unless there is something wrong with the engine or your driving conditions are extreme - leaving it go longer if they say it is fine should be no problem. How far you can actually go - that takes some work on your end.

To get a good sense of how long you can go - you can run it to 5000 miles, see what it looks like, if they recommend going longer - say another 3000 miles - go and see what it does at 8000 miles, resample. If it still looks OK, then you can push it in 1000 mile increments, resampling after each increment until the oil is done.

That should tell you what the maximum life you can expect from this oil. Then back off the mileage by something that you feel comfortable with - that now is your Pennzoil ultra platinum synthetic + WIX oil filter oil change interval.

Just read through some of the extended oil change procedures that some people follow on BITOG forums or similar - should give you a base to start from and make sure you are doing this smartly.

How long does it take to get sample back from lab.

Frank.

As soon as they receive the sample - depending on how busy they are - could be a day or two. I've had samples that were turned around that day - they email you a report as soon as they finish, you can get a hardcopy by mail if you prefer.

Using USPS - I can usually get a report in 3-4 days tops.

Fish

How should I take oil sample. With a vacuum pump or from stream. Because when I sample at 5,000 miles if lab says leave oil in I will leave oil in for more miles. In this case I think i should take Oil sample with pump. What so you think.

Frank.

Correct - if your plan is to run the oil for as long as possible, to see how far you can push it - then you'll need to sample via the oil dipstick using a vacuum pump or vacuum sampling device. Blackstone-Labs has vacuum pump you can buy from there site. You can also get any number of vacuum pumps out there to do the same thing - Mityvac, etc. - just need to get hoses that will fit the dipstick tube and long enough to make it easier to sample.

Fish

Probably buy pump from blackstone because I know it already works and fits. Did not know it cost that much.

Frank.

Yeah, most vacuum pumps are around that price range. I think my Mityvac pump setup was about double that price + you have to mess around finding the appropriate hose, transfer the oil sample to the sample container, etc. Blackstone's kit already has all the tubing you need + designed to connect directly to the sample container they send you in the kit - so it is ready to go when you get it. Just screw on the sample bottle to vacuum pump, stick tubing down dipstick, draw enough to fill the sample container, remove bottle/cap it/package it - send it off.

I ordered the vacuum pump from Blackstone Labs today. Do you buy new tubing for the pump each time you use it or reuse the tubing it came with.

If you reuse tubing how do you clean it.

Frank

You can definitely reuse it - should be the clear silicone type, possible that they cheaped out and used clear vinyl tubing. Flush it with some brake cleaner or similar solvent - let it air dry or to speed things up, blow compressed air through it (don't blow through it with your mouth - use a compressor or atleast canned air). Stick it in a plastic bag or dedicated toolbox to keep it dirt free.

Or if that sounds like way too much work - just throw it away and buy some clear silicone tubing with the same I.D. - stuff usually runs anywhere from 50 cents to $1.50 a linear foot. I've used clear vinyl tubing for an aquarium air pump - stuff is really cheap - something like $5 for 25 feet. But you have to check the I.D. - most of this is 3/16" I.D. - I think that pump you're getting is atleast 1/4". When you get it, you'll know. It will hold up to the oil, but it will eventually harden and break down. But it is inexpensive - so I treat it as an expendable part.

I am curious to see how long I can get out of oil.

I drive 10k -12k miles per year. If I find out i can get 10k or any thing over that before the oil is finished means to me I can do one oil change a year.

Fish I still think it is better to do at least a min of two oil changes know matter how long I get out of oil before oil is finished.

What do you think.

Frank.

Yup, oil is cheap compared the potential for oil issues - twice a year is pretty conservative, recommended by manufacturers and most professionals. True, you might be able to get away with one time a year - but I personally wouldn't push it like that. Much of it will be dependent on how those miles accumulate on the car.

Post up those UOA values when you get them - as other might be curious on how that oil does in a later 9th gen Corolla.

Fish

I am going to sample the PENNZOIL UTRAL PLATINUM 5w-30 oil. I want to see what is max I can get out of oil with WIX filter.

I will post UOA results. Fish when I post result can you help me interpret results. I never did UAO before and and do not know what results mean.

I really appreciate it

Thanks Frank

Sure, we can help you out on that. Some members here ping-pong between this forum and BITOG. Blackstone will also include their assessment of the oil and how it did.

Fish

To clean tubing on vacuum pump you were referring to CRC BREAK CLEAN BREAK CLEANER or something like degreaser.

Also from what I read slot of people like DYSON ANALYSIS but I do not think I need it for 79. I am talking about Dyson UOA. I think Blackstone would be fine for my needs don't you fish.

Frank.

Any solvent that will dissolve oils would be fine. Just use what you have lying around - just need to clean the old oil out of the tubing so as to not contaminate the next sample. That or just store the hose, next time you sample - discard the first pull, then save the second pull of oil. Any contaminants left will just be trace.

Dyson is a well known oil testing shop - they basic analysis is a lot higher as they do more testing. For a simple UOA - this is probably overkill, one of those diminishing returns sort of thing. For a fleet manager or similar - probably be worth it, as their conditions are more controlled and trackable - where an oil change on their rigs would cost anywhere from $200-$600 depending on capacity and number of filters.

A standard UOA at black stone is 25. Will they tell you how much further oil can go or you have to get TBN DONE for that.

Also I do not want TAN also. just asking.

Frank.

Need to have a TBN or TAN test as well - their standard analysis only shows wear metals, small section of the additive package, fuel dilution, solute and water contamination.

TBN is the most popular test - many use this and there is a lot of VOA (virgin oil analysis) done that is out there, so you can get a feeling on how robust that additive package is in the oils, TAN is another test that can be used to find out how long you can push the oil. Some like to do both - as the point where the two meet, is when you should change the oil.

Myself, I've only done TBN - TAN would be nice, but would make the testing costs go up considerably. At that point - just easier to stick with the standard 5000 oil change interval, from a cost out-lay point of view.

More info on those tests here - lot more online if you want to read up on it. BITOG forums is also another good resource for those tests as well.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/2170/oil-drain-interval-tan-tbn

Ok. I will stick with standard test+ TBN. I think it cost 25+10.

Now VOA is that I would want to get done or no.

Frank

Don't need to do a VOA unless you want to find out what the additive package looks like or running something non-standard, ie. blending your own oil. Pennzoil Ultra should have a number of VOAs already available, like this one for a 5W20:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1778710

Notice how high the TAN number is - it is 13. Meaning lots of reserve alkalinity to fight off the normal acidification that occurs as a function of a working internal combustion engine. Also note the viscosity - right in the middle of its range. Those are some numbers you want to keep in mind during your testing phase. 65% point on TAN would be around 8.5, most oils will continue to protect down to about a TAN number of about 2 or 3. You can push it even further, but since you don't drive a lot of miles, would be best to stay above a 3 if possible. If you drive a lot, might get away with TBN as low as 2 or even 1. Blackstone considers TBN of 1 to be low - but if you look around, Dyson and members of BITOG consider that WAY TOO low for many drivers of mixed driving. You can also see if this oil tends to run thin or thick for your engine (look at the viscosities - higher numbers = thicker, lower numbers = thinner.

There will be some variances due to manufacturing tolerances, but should be all pretty close. Since a VOA has already been done - you can skip that part.

For comparison - here is a test on an Infiniti G37, 5000 mile run on Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30:

http://www.myg37.com/forums/engine-drivetrain-and-forced-induction/210156-oil-analysis-on-pennzoil-ultra.html

Note that the viscosity dropped out of grade, actually thinner than a 20 weight. TBN is a 2.7 - Blackstone estimates that the oil can be run out to 7500 before TBN drops to 1. That engine is known to be tough on oil - IMO, that oil is done at 5000 miles. Falling off of grade is one thing, but the drop of TBN from ~13 to less than 3, means the oil had to work really hard over that 5000 mile interval. This engine would be an example of a bad candidate for extreme extended oil changes.

Fish

Thanks for all the info. I am learning a lot from you.

Thanks Again Frank

Fish

On the VOA of PENNZOIL ULTRA you noted TAN is 13. Now from what I gather from what you wrote the lower the # gets it tell your oil is getting used up.

I like to know what the TAN or same # is for a VOA of MOBIL 1 and AMSOIL. They are supposed to be some of the best. I just wanted to see how PENNZOIL ULTRA compares.

Frank



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