by ILO, November 29, 2004
While learning to drive a standard shift, my son sometimes brings the clutch pedal up too soon and grinds the gears. He catches it as soon as it starts. I'd like to know if there is any damage being done or is the clutch/transmission designed to withstand some of this? Thanks.
You might get differing opinions on this, so I'll start with my opinion.
Grinding gears over time will round the corners of the teeth off of the gears that are engaging. I doubt that your car will have any problems in the course of your son learning how to learn (and on occasion afterwards), but if he makes a habit out of it over time eventually your car might start popping out of gear.
That will take a heck of a lot of grinds to reach that point. I've known people that had clutch problems on their vehicles and had some grind every time they put it into 1st gear. Years later, the cars still ran the same.
I'd like to make two suggestions to your son:
It's no problem. Just keep working on your son's skills. He'll get it right. Your corolla will handle it .
18 wheelers grind everytime they shift into low gears.
good Luck!
Hi, I would check the clutch pedal for proper travel, that is, It should engage near the top of the pedal and dis-engage completely when it's on the floor and you can test this by seeing if it grinds at all when the pedal is depressed fully. If it does, have the clutch adjusted properly... any garage should be able to do that for you.... quickly and cheaply.... good luck... Jim 1999 Corolla LE.
Thanks for the info. We did adjust his seat. He seems to be getting the hang of it now. Sounds like the "damage" won't be a factor.
Mike
I told my wife that too when I taught her to drive standard in my Rolla.Tell him not to cram the stick into gear. Use two fingers and gently push the stick from gear to gear.
Slow, steady, sure and straight shifts, right angles, etc etc. Apparently there are a lot of things to remember to do at once, so it is hard to keep track of them all and the exact order...
I learned the basics of a manual transmission as a kid, my dad bought me an ancient 1971 Honda SL90. So, the first time I drove a standard on the road I had no problem at all with the basics or concept...but coming up to the first stop I downshifted early and learned very quickly that a light motorcycle with a high-revving engine and grippy tires is much different than a heavy auto with a relatively low revving engine... 
I've been thinking about his recently as I have ground the transmission several times while getting the hang of my new Corolla. I remember years ago when some mechanics took apart my rear differential and commented that there wasn'tt any "chipping." I've been imagining the gear teeth getting broken. So I'm glad to hear that I'm not destroying my manual transmission.
And kudos on teaching your son to drive a manual. I have my own ideas about cars and think they have become much too easy to drive, and much too easy to take for granted. The concentration required for learning a standard shift is intense, but as shifting becomes second nature, the habit of taking driving seriously remains, and the mind is drawn to different, less tactical and more strategic issues, like planning ahead, avoiding dangers, staying alive.
I've taught two kids to drive a stick and if I had one word of advice it would be not to comment on gear grinding -- they already feel terrible far out of proportion to any correction I can offer. It's easiest to find where the clutch engages while holding the car and then slowly going up a hill, letting it roll back under clutch control and easing it back up. I also learned they did better when I stopped talking and simulated dead air: what they will have beside them for most of their driving lives.
The intense pressure does create an opportunity to sear some simple messages into the highly receptive long-term memory (adrenaline does it). I said these just once or twice: "Maintain a space cushion, leave yourself an out, keep your eyes on the road but keep them moving, on the freeway look far ahead for dust or other barely perceptible signs of an accident, don't do anything but drive; don't eat, don't talk on the phone, just drive;, if you see a drunk, try to safely get past him rather than follow; bad driving can get you killed so keep learning."
It turned out that this was one chance to get these higher order messages across because a license requires only basic competence and then they calm down and head out alone (and like the rest of us, stop really listening once again). That's the scary time, and when you would give anything to have them back grinding the gears and listening to every word. It takes a year or so of worrying while they get seasoned at the wheel. I had one comfort: At least I told them all I knew about how to stay alive in a ca;, if they can get through this period, they should be pretty good drivers. They are and they can drive a stick like nobody's business.
Thanks CArolla. You sound like the kind of driver I want to be on the road with -- responsible! I'm with you on the teaching aspect as well. I think driving a standard also puts you in more control of the car - you understand it better. You're right on the teachable moments as well. The problem is trying to give them thirty years of driving experience in relatively zero amount of time. As you say, mention the biggies and they'll be safe to find out the other stuff on their own. I did look into the grinding issue and was surprised to learn (how stuff works.com) that you're not grinding the transmission gears, you're grinding the "dog" gears that are part of the synchronization.
Very interesting, ILO. Well, for some reason I've been grinding my dogs! Since I've still got fewer than 2,000 miles logged, figure I'll get the hang of it before I wear those pups down too far. 
I don't know if other people feel this in the Corolla stick, but it's almost as though some kind of electronic device is actually engaging the clutch. What I mean is that sometimes there is a split second between letting out the clutch and the gears engaging, almost like it's monitoring whether it wants to mesh just yet. Very smooth mind you, and like it's making sure no gear jamming can take place. Sometimes I feel like letting out the clutch is only putting in a request for a new gear, which arrives on its own schedule. This new fangled technology . . .
When I decided to get a manual, my mechanic wondered, "Why?" He said automatic shifters had advanced to the point where they get fine gas mileage and save you a lot of trouble. I knew he was right and wondered why it was so important to me. I concluded that I'm something of a control freak and want to be in charge of which gear my car is in, even if it's wrong! I have to say the Corollla is a tight, refined mechanism and I had to muster more finesse and precision to become one with the transmission. More like setting a Swiss watch than turning the handle on a meat grinder. Kind of learned to drive all over again when getting the hang of downshifting. Now I don't downshift as a rule, because it wastes gas and is hard on the gearbox. But it can take the place of brakes in a pinch and keep you on a mountain road without overheating your brakes. And it's another way to exert control over the beast. For me at least, that control is the definition of driving versus feeling like I'm just along for the ride.
Heck if they still sold hand-cranked starters, I would probably buy one of those rather than depend on the ever-fickle 12-volt. And I still think this whole electricity thing might turn out to be just a fad . . . 
The Corolla clutch is pretty easy to modulate, and you should have it down pat really soon.
Mine has never hung up going into first or reverse. The Saturns tended to stick at times requiring double clutching.
I ground the gears again today. It's third gear and I'm pretty sure that it's the seating in the Corolla that is making the reach a little bit of a stretch. I have long legs and long arms, but I think the arms are losing. Just have to make a conscious effort to fully extend that stick up to gear number 3. Sure enjoy driving my Corolla as I get used to it.
It doesn't matter how many times I pump the clutch my 01 still won't go into reverse with out grinding at a dead stop. I am not the original owner either so God only knows what the DPO did to the car initially...
This is likely caused by warn synchros. This might improve if you replace the manual transmission fluid.It doesn't matter how many times I pump the clutch my 01 still won't go into reverse with out grinding at a dead stop. I am not the original owner either so God only knows what the DPO did to the car initially...
It is also possible that your clutch master cylinder is low on brake fluid. Check the level and make sure it's not low.
