Ford Is Plummeting

I just heard on the news tonight that FORD made one of the lowest sales this year in 100 years of business. FORD is now looking to ask Toyota for help and is estimated to take as long as two years for FORD to start making a profit again.

IMO FORD is going to take alot longer than a couple of years to make a profit. People need to have faith in their product and until then, ford isn't going to get the sales they want. For Ford to get faith back to consumers, they have to recreate a lost reputation of creating a reliable, powerful automobile in a decent price. Now the consumers are spending more money on foreign automobiles because they don't want to be stuck on a freeway somewhere because the fuel injectors stop working after 50k miles, for example. I would never buy a modern ford because I personally don't have faith in their practicallity as an automobile and reliability. Its going to take several years for ford to recreate a good reputation. I saw the new mustang for the 05 model and I thought it looked awesome because of its retro design. My brother rented an 06 stang when visiting from Ireland and that car, to say the least, was a piece. Its all this engine and noise and gas but no pep what so ever. The rear seat was stupidly small for how big the car is and the hatchback is too low, my head would hit the rear windshield everytime we go over a bump. I asked if I could drive it and I was disappointed. At 210 hp the car had a 0-60 of my corolla. The car is definitely torquey I admit, I lightly tap the gas from a stop and the car just leans back instantly. But when I revved the engine in neutral, the car twisted noticeably. I can tell right then and there that the chasis cannot handle the torque of the engine and in turn, twisting. I couldn't even squeal the tires at all! A BMW with the same hp has better accel, cornering, fuel economy, reliability, braking, interior space, just better quality. But I suppose thats due to the BMW costing about 8-12 grand more. I still haven't figured out which $25000-$30000 car that ford or any other american automobile is suppose to compete with the BMW 3 series pricing around that range.

I know many people may disagree with my comment, thats cool. And Im just stereotyping here for giggles, but central US and the South and parts of the East like cheap cars, mainly american for cheap quality and cheap price. But living in california, especially southern california is very conscientious about cars and for a mustang to have all this hype before and after its release, this car....in a lack of a better phrase....blows.

Here Here!

Recently for work I drove a new generation ford focus. Whilst the handling and ride were top notch, and it was certainly oomphy enough, the plastics felt cheap and I needed to read the owners manual before driving - couldn't figure out how to switch on the headlights! No wonder Corolla is top seller here. It has the extra quality/finish that cheap euros lack. Whilst the local motoring press is euphoric about the latest generation Holden Commodore, whilst it still is the no.1 seller GM fortunes haven't really improved.

Not just in the US, the local ford falcon had its worst year since the 1960s. Since the late 90s big car sales have halved, whilst the total market has grown appreciably. Higher petrol prices, people remaining single for longer, traffic congestion, tighter living and garage spaces mean big cars are on the nose, and are on the way out. I personally beleive the next generation falcon, due for release in 2008 will be nearing the end. After that it would be 2015 until the generation after that. Then, the big car story will defenitely be over.

Also market preferences are changing. Due to restrictions on vehicle marketing, more rigourous speeding enforcement and improved public attitudes towards road safety, performance isn't the marketing angle it once was. Where Ford, GM and Chrysler do racing stripes and raw machismo very well, Toyota does not and will never. Its a bit like asking the Prime Minister to record a hip-hop album - yes it might be catchy and novel but, lets face it, will never gel. What 99% of the driving public NEEDS is reliability and practicality. And Toyota (and to an extent other japanese makes) has that angle all sewn up.

A friend of mine at work drives a Ford Focus which she got brand new just last year. The Focus is less fuel efficient than my 9 year old Corolla. Also, she has had 3 flat tires and a problem with her engine belts on it. It has less than 20k miles on it. What a piece of junk!

One thing I must add about American cars as a whole, I've noticed they are not only less fuel efficient, but they also require much larger engines to produce equal horsepower (engines produce less HP per size). For instance, compare the engines of the Crown Victoria to the Avalon. The Crown Vic uses a 4.6 liter V8 which produces only 224 HP and gets 17/25 MPG. Compare that to the Avalon which uses a much smaller 3.5 liter V6 which produces a much more commanding 268 HP and gets 22/32 MPG.

Based on what I can see and hear in auto shows and in my friends' Ford, I think Ford's quality is almost on par with Japanese vehicle. My favorite Ford product is the Crown-Vic, a quientessential American sedan--big, strong, and comfy. I hope to own one when I'm old, retired and living it up in Florida. It's a good vehicle; so good that cabbies and cops would not part with it. CV are strong and solidly built. My friend's LTD (predecessor to the Crown-Vic) was almost like a tank. It would refuse to die no matter how hard we tried to kill it. I have also heard if a drive the newer Crown Vic on the freeway, motorists in front of you will part like the sea for Moses. Regarding the Mustang, it's a hot selling product. Purist might not like it for whatever reason, but Ford's formula for the Mustang is working, evidence by them flying off the dealers' lot like hotcakes.

The problem I see is not quality of product, but the way the company is managed. Ford engineers have put out best selling trucks and sports car--F150 and the Mustang; however, the company is not only unprofitable; they lose big money. Management makes bad contracts, like with suppliers, labor union, health care and retirement benefits, etc. The company is paying the price for their bad decisions.

However, I think they can pull thru it. They did in the 80s and 90s. Just a few years ago, they were raking in massive profits and buying other car companies left and right. They have a history of surviving tough times.

Many of Ford's vehicle have been rated very highly by surveys and reports. Some Fords have better ratings than Toyota and Honda, and Fords are alot more reliable than European cars. Ford turned the old unreliable Jaguars into a reliable brand--better than Mercedes and BMW the last time I checked. I don't know how much more improvement in Ford's product they can make. I think they are already doing a hell of a job in product development.

I think the other poster is right that the real issue is Ford needs to stream line its operation.

Texasrolla -- I didn't know Ford made Kool-Aid, but you sure seem to have drunk a lot of it! Ford's are total crap compared to most import makes, and they're getting worse all the time. I owned a 1991 Taurus for nine years, and drove it 134,000 miles. It needed a brake job every 20,000 miles. The transmission was replaced at 55,000 miles, and the replacement just barely made it to the Toyota dealer where I traded the Taurus for $300 when I got my '01 Corolla. Every Ford I've ever been personally associated with has had way more than it's share of problems. About the only thing good I can say about Fords is that they make reasonably good trucks. The Paratransit bus I drive for a living is built on a 2002 Ford E-450 Super Duty DRW chassis, with the 7.3 liter PowerStroke Diesel. It has been excellent, for the most part. However, the newer '04, '05, and '06 versions of the same vehicle are having major breakdowns of their new, smaller 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5-speed auto transmission. I will probably have to give up my '02 later this year and be stuck with an '06, and I'm dreading that day.

So what's the problem with Fords? Well, the company drew a circle (actually an oval) around the problem for you so you'd know!

My mom drove a 1999 Grand Cherokee. Every 3k miles, there was something wrong with the brakes. They constantly had to be re-ground and eventually replaced every 20k miles, along with the crappy tires. Another constant problem was dying batteries. Transmittion had to be replaced just before the 60k servicing. By the time she sold it at 75k miles in 2004, the airconditioning unit had died and it would have cost $1100 to replace. In all, my mom spent about $500 per month just on repairs on the car alone, and that is not a lie. My Dad owned a 1990 Taurus for about 3 years. The car also had a constant problem with brakes and rotors until he sold it in 93' for a Lexus ES300 which performed and maintained smoothly. Today, my dad owns an 05' Camry, my mom owns an 04' Corolla, I own a 98' Corolla and a 98' Lexus SC400 which I'm rebuilding, and my sister owns a 97' Corolla.

If anyone doubts these horror stories of experiences with American cars today, just look at the huge recall history of American cars. Some of these lists just make me scared that I ever rode in these cars as a child. Compare them to our Corollas or Camrys and your really decide if Ford coming back.

Recall history of 00-06 Taurus

Recall history of 99-04 Grand Cherokee

Recall history of 92-06 Crown Victoria

So far the 9th Gen Corolla has never been recalled

9th gen Corollas have had recalls. One for axle assembly (NUMMI built only) , and a few for headlights w/out amber reflectors.

Many of Ford's vehicle have been rated very highly by surveys and reports. Some Fords have better ratings than Toyota and Honda, and Fords are alot more reliable than European cars.

Can you supply links or publications? Just curious.....

I didn't go looking for who was at fault, 99, I simply looked up the recalls. And those were the ones I found. Damn, you grade hard!

As I was driving to work Friday morning I decided to see how many Ford cars I would see on the road. During my 1 hour commute I saw 3 Ford cars.

If you were asked for a quick answer could you name the cars that they sell today? Not me. Name recognition is important with Toyota and Honda. I think that the American companies change the model names to fade our memories of the dogs that came out of Detroit in the past 30 years.

Check out the problems people are having with the flagship engine of the Ford truck line.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html

http://home.nycap.rr.com/tritonlemon/

Here's a general Ford problem page.

http://www.tgrigsby.com/views/bymodel.htm

Wow.... Ford is a bad 4-letter-word here.

Personally, I have nothing against the D3. (If they give me more business, I would be a happy camper).

I am hoping that they will finally start doing a little better within the next year or 2.

Hmmm... Stock prices are falling further... time to buy in...

Brendon, if your friend has had 3 flats already, maybe she needs to change the route she takes... I put on 30k+ miles every year... no issues yet (knock on wood).

The girl that sits across from me at the office. She has had to replace the belts in her Sentra 3times in 3years. (I think she needs a new mechanic, but) Just goes to show that the imports have their issues too.

To defend Tex, I think for had a bunch of "Car of the Year" awards this year ( i do not know how they are judged... not that i really care... )

As for the rental mustang, thats not a fair comparison.

You're in a cheap ######, fleet car, with a 4L v6... which no real muscle car guy (or girl) would ever get (esp with all that weight it needs to move). The only people that would even look at one, are the non-car people who just want a cool looking "sports" car.

Yes, the rear seats suck (esp compared to how big the car is), but most 4seat sports cars that have cramped rear seats, regardless of brand.

But then, the rear seats in my saab are so small, I am trying to figure out how to put in a child seat.

Buddy just turned in his leased GT. It hauled ######.

Unless I change jobs, my next car will prob be domestic gas guzzling v8. Yeah, I will be spewing out gas, but it will be FUN!

heh, have i set myself up for a barrage of attacks?

tdk.

First, there are horry stories concerning Toyota and Hondas too. My Pap's Accord had to go back to the dealer a few times for various issues--mostly body related. My sister's Civic had a dead alternator when the car was less than two years old.

Second, comparing Ford to Toyota or Honda is not a fair comparison because Ford makes a lot more complicated vehicles. Toyota and Honda are mostly in the 4 cylinder small car market, but they sell very few V8s--I don't even think Honda knows how to make an 8 cylinder, and neither knows how to make diesel. Ford, on the other hand, makes Diesel trucks and high power V8 sedans and sports cars that are more complicated and likely to break. If you look at complex cars from Japan, like the 300Z or the Supra, they're not reliable either.

It's true that Ford (and other US brand) had a few bad models from the 80s and early 90s; however, there product today is nearly as good as imports--better in certain segments. Once you lose credibility, it's hard to get it back, and Ford's image does not correlation with the reliability. However, I think Ford is slowly getting its imagine back.

Actually Toyota has a strong history with 8 cylinder engines, its just that they are only used by Toyota trucks/SUVs or Lexus. The LS400/SC400's engine 1UZ-FE was considered one of the most advanced engines to debut in 1988, costing around $400 million in development. It put BMW and Mercedes in check, who claimed the LS400 was going to be a monumental failure and that Toyota could never make a V8 that would work, which was quite the opposite. The 1UZ-FE combined power and fuel economy and was noted for its extreme smoothness even for an automatic. It put out 250 HP and got 19/25 MPG when most other V8's at the time when most were making just 15 MPG city. Since then, Lexus (Toyota) has continually improved upon the engine and just last year came out with the new 4.6 liter V8 for the new LS460, which uses the world's first 8-speed automatic transmission. It puts out 386 HP and gets 19/27 MPG. Compare that to BMW's current V8 for the 5 and 7 series, which makes 360 HP and gets 17/25 MPG.

Don't underestimate Toyota's ability like BMW and Mercedes did. Lexus took a huge chuck of their market out because they underestimated the success of Lexus.

Yeah, the LS400 series is complex. My aunt bought one when it first came out around '92. It was reliable until she sold it three years ago. The hi-tech instrument panel went blank, and the cost of repair was going to be over $2000! However, Toyota does not make that many LS400, so its defect just doesn't the same ripple effect of a mass produced vehicle, like the 'Rolla or a Ford F150. Toyota's bread and butter is the Corolla and Camry, both very simple FWD. A lot of people drive these simple cars, and, therefore, develop the impression that Toyota is very reliable. On the other hand, Ford's bread and butter is truck, which is more complex, prone to breaking. Their cars are more complex too because they use a lot of RWD technology: Mustang, CV, Explorer, etc.

Ok ok....I guess I've started something here....

American engineers and designers can make something completely incredible. The epitome of which is the design and build of the 1zz-fe to which I believe was spawned by americans. This engine was made in Buffalo, West Virginia. The corolla is built in Fremont, California or Ontario, Canada. Ford did have something good because if I recall correctly, and don't quote me on this, but I think Ford helped out toyota when they first came to the states. Now the teacher is asking for the student's help. I think the problem with Ford is that they don't try...The ford mustang uses all that gas and makes alot of sound, so why such a small hp output. If you ask BMW to make a 4L v6, they'd kick a_ss with at least 300hp and better fuel economy. On top of that, a quicker accel, stiffer chassis to put those horsies to the tar by reducing body twist. And better turning by studying geometry for a few grand above a GT Premium. Ford is just big, heavy, inefficiency. I have no idea how reliable they really are now but 3 domestic cars made me a believer that no domestic company can create something worth lasting a while.

My grandmother had a caddie caterra. Felt nice, ugly on the outside but thats subjective, warranty was decent. Lo and behold, we rapped the warranty left and right with tires prematurely going bald, new starters, new alternator, regrounding engine, pretty soon, the tranny gave out and we were stuck 10 miles away from home. We all laughed about how a car company that first invented cars cannot even make a simple sedan.

My gf's 94 pont. grand "piece" is definitely a piece! interior is falling apart from adhesives getting old, changed the starter 5 times, changed the tranny, changed the cat., oil pan gasket leaked like mad. Hoses were leaking coolant, and changed distributor and changed and changed and changed when it all began as simple as asking for an oil change. A $20 job turns into $500-$1500 each visit. The mechanic isn't playing us because he shows us on the car when its lifted.

My gf's mom's 02 grand piece is starting to do the same. All things aside but performance, I can out accellerate or keep up with one. Sad....

Not surprisingly Nissan isn't doing so well with their reliability but that's because they suck. they're the japanese fords as my friends and I would say.

Modern BMW and toyota are the two companies I will trust. My mom has a '90 Lexus LS400 with 165k miles. The only thing wrong with that is that the window switch cover fell off, and its slowly leaking powersteering fluid, however the pump works fine. We just have to add fluid every 2-3 weeks. Idling at 200 rpms and good accelleration at 600-800 rpms I was surprised at how well the car functioned, didn't impress me with how it handled/performed, but it works the way it was initially designed to and that's all that matters when selling a car and having it last for 17 years. O yea, VW is a piece to, especially the jetta, dont even get me started on that egg shaped chick mobile. It handles SUPERBLY! but relying on it to start when you want to go home at the end of the day, forget about it.

Ok ok....I guess I've started something here....

If you ask BMW to make a 4L v6, they'd kick a_ss with at least 300hp and better fuel economy. On top of that, a quicker accel, stiffer chassis to put those horsies to the tar by reducing body twist. And better turning by studying geometry for a few grand above a GT Premium. Ford is just big, heavy, inefficiency. I have no idea how reliable they really are now but 3 domestic cars made me a believer that no domestic company can create something worth lasting a while.

My grandmother had a caddie caterra. Felt nice, ugly on the outside but thats subjective, warranty was decent. Lo and behold, we rapped the warranty left and right with tires prematurely going bald, new starters, new alternator, regrounding engine, pretty soon, the tranny gave out and we were stuck 10 miles away from home. We all laughed about how a car company that first invented cars cannot even make a simple sedan.

Yes, but a BMW V6 would not simply be a slightly stroked version of the old 3.8L V6 that Ford has used since the 1980's in numerous cars including:

Taurus/Sable

Windstar

Thunderbird/Cougar

Mustang

That engine isn't particularly peppy compared to what BMW can do with 4L, but as I stated earlier, BMW would not simply stroke up a 20 year old engine design. That 3.8L V6 lacks VVT-i, it has only 12V, it isn't tuned for smoothness, fuel economy or performance, but a weird combination thereof, and worst of all it suffers from head gasket failure at an alarming rate.

And as I said earlier in a post about American vs. Japanese cars, your Catera experience is irrelevant. A Catera isn't a real Cadillac. Real Cadillacs are designed in Dearborn Michigan, not in Europe, and real Cadillacs have V8 engines, and most importantly, real Cadillacs aren't Opel Ambassador sedans with leather seats. Opel is the equivalent of Chevy in Europe, and to boot they use severely outdated production systems that lead to poor quality. A Catera isn't an American car anymore that a GTO is. It is made by Holden, an Australian subsidiary of GM. If you want to tell me that American cars are unreliable pieces of crap, go ahead, but don't use Cateras as examples.

I'll give you a couple of hints, Google GM and Transmission problems or Ford and 3.8L headgasket failure.

mk... American cars are unreliable pieces of crap excluding the catera and the vibe and the lotus<-both uses zz engine.

 

 

RWD vehicles have the additional problems with their longer driveshafts and CV joints, as well as their differentials.

FWD is usually more reliable on their drive trains.

There is much to be said in favor of both FWD or RWD, but in either case it comes down to construction.

I used to drive RWD vehicles as they were all that was available. I would rather have one in the snow than FWD for controllability.

I say that FWD is more reliable due to the amount of material used in the drivetrain versus RWD which requires more construction.

If you are comparing Lexus or Lincoln, then that's like apples and oranges. Naturally horsepower and workmanship is a whole different ball game.