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Bigger Is Better... Why?

By Brendon, January 14, 2007

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A couple days ago at work, I saw an old, old OLD Corolla in the parking lot. It was the 4th generation Corolla, probably 1980 or 81'. What amazed me was how small the car was. I drive an 8th gen Corolla and people comment to me how small my car is. My Corolla's dimensions are 54.5 inches tall, 66.7 wide, and 174 long. My sister had a 7th gen Corolla which was 2 inches shorter in length, and 1 inch shorter in height. The 6th gen ones are even smaller. The 4th gen Corolla I saw must have been maybe 51 inches tall, maybe 65 inches wide, and 166 inches long at best. According to wikipedia, the wheelbase of the 4th gen is just 94.5 inches.

It really got me thinking since my Mom drives an 04' current gen Corolla. The new Corollas just look huge, 58 inches tall, 178 inches long, and a good 100 Lbs heavier than my gen. From what I've been reading, they are designing the new 10th gen Corolla to be even larger and probably heavier. Where does it stop? Generation after generation, cars are getting larger. Do people neccessarily need larger cars? Its not just the Corolla, but all cars as a whole. Everything is being designed to be bigger and heavier. The Corolla isn't even classified as a sub-compact car anymore, which is why Toyota had to come out with that dismal failure, the Echo/Yaris. Everything about the car industry today just seems way to re-Americanized with the 1960s notion of "bigger is better". If you look at cars as a whole in the last 15 years, they have grown in size at weight by over 20%. I prefer my little old 98' Corolla over any of the new Toyotas today. If I wanted a large car, I could buy an SUV. I also think the styling of older cars is much better. Probably some of the best designed cars came out in the 1990s like the 7th and 8th gen Corolla, the Lexus SC300/400, the 3rd and 4th gen Camry, and the Mark IV Supra. Anyone agree?

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I too have noticed cars getting bigger. My Corolla (2005 LE) is just as big as the Camry my grandmother had when I was a small child. My mother's Camry is as big as the original Avalon, and the new Rav4 is as big as a Highlander.

The biggest reason for the increase in car size has to do with the fact that so many Americans are so overweight. They need bigger cars so they can be comfortable. I'm not in that category, however, as I'm about 20 lbs less than I should be for my height.

I agree that some of the best designed cars were built when the average person was considered to be 5'9" and less than 160 lbs. The cars were easier to park, more nimble and more exciting. Most new cars don't do a lot for me because their size takes away what I consider to be positive attributes of cars. Cars like Z4s and Miatas are still small, nimble and exciting, and that is why I like them so much.

If I weren't so concerned with buying someone else's problems or buying a car that had no warranty, I'd be all over a used SC300 or late 90s BMW 325i coupe.

g'day,

if you compare the engine power output of a 1988-1992 camry (2.0 litre 3sfe around 93kw), it is equal or greater now w/ the 1zzfe (1.8litre) engine in the present generation corolla. in this scenario automakers like toyota can make the body larger to accomodate big loads and of course enough room for big people at the same time consume less fuel.

rey t

Max

It's also got to do with the fact that many Americans like big cars, not to mention huge SUVs. Toyota knows this, and they've responded. So has Honda. Their American version Accord is bigger than the one they sell to much of the world. The Acura TSX is based on the European Accord, which gives you an idea of the difference in dimensions. But, I like small cars. My favorite was my 1974 Celica, which was about the size of a current Mazda MX-5 (Miata).

g'day,

if you compare the engine power output of a 1988-1992 camry (2.0 litre 3sfe around 93kw), it is equal or greater now w/ the 1zzfe (1.8litre) engine in the present generation corolla. in this scenario automakers like toyota can make the body larger to accomodate big loads and of course enough room for big people at the same time consume less fuel.

rey t

That kind of makes my point. Today's Corolla engine makes almost the same power. The Camry back then modernized today could be as fuel efficient as the Corolla, but instead, the Camry today has grown from a nimble 2600 lbs. it was back then to over 3200 lbs today and we have to produce a larger engine that is just as fuel inefficient as it was back then to offset this weight problem. The problem is automakers are making more powerful engines that at just as fuel efficient in order to justify overdesigning. Instead, if they concentrating on making current designs more efficient, we wouldn't need to go beyond 2.5 liters or need 6 cyl engines. The current Altima's engine is an I4 2.5L engine that produces 175 HP and gets 26/34 fuel efficiency on regular gasoline. There should be no reason why any practical car should need more than 175 HP. That is how much the original Avalon was producing! This is the reason why in 100 years, cars still are barely as fuel efficient as the old Model-T (which was rated at 27-29 MPG).

Some extra Info I would like to add to my original post:

I have two friends, one who drives a 93' SC300 and another who drives a 92' Camry. What is funny is that both cars when they came out were considered huge in size back in the early 90s, especially for Japanese cars. The Camry was nicknamed "world size" in Japan. I drove around in my friend's SC300 6 years ago and that thing felt so huge! I could never have expected a car to be any bigger. You compare these two to the current Camry or the current Avalon, they look small. The SC300/400 weighed in at 3500 Lbs which was considered massive back then. Now that's almost a standard for mid-sized cars.

As I said before the Corolla hasn't been spared this new "trend". The current gen is up to 2502 lbs on manual trans. The 8th gen was 2414, and the 7th gen was 2315. By the last review I read, the new American Corolla is expected to tip the scales at 2600 lbs, which Honda's new Civic also passed.

i think alot of it has to do with safty, they build them bigger and safer, if you look at the crash bars now days compared to back then its a big difference, also we can build them bigger now days because of cheaper lighter stronger material

People's asses are getting bigger thanks to the Colonel and Ronal McDonald. We can no longer fit into those tiny Corollas and Camry of the '80s. We have back problems and knee problems because of all the extra fat we're carry around. Wider, cushier seats and more leg rooms are required for the people of the 21st century. That's primarily why cars are getting bigger. Cars will continue to get bigger as our asses get even bigger.

now im not backing up fast foods, but its the peoples fault for eating there, i personaly find times where i ahve no time to cook and im in a rush and need to pick up a burger but i dont get alot, i get maybe one burger to tide me over to when i can go home and cook a nice meal, people now days eat fast food because they are to lazy to get up and cook.

i think alot of it has to do with safty
I agree. There are a lot of safety items stuffed in cars now. Along with a lot of other luxury items that are not found in older cars. This all adds up to a larger vehicle.

 

 

While I heartily agree with the comments expressing the problem with the eating habits in this country, I think we can't use that as a red herring to solely explain the size increase.

There are two worthwhile reasons for cars getting bigger and heavier. (1) is the aforementioned safety features. Building crumple zones and adding airbags increases size and weight. But conversely, engine we now have lighter materials (aluminum engines, aluminum alloy wheels) that counter this trend and reduce weight at the same time. Also engineers have been able to reduce hood length while maintaining safety, thus allowing more interior space. (2) more noise-dampening material has been built into the car, especially on higher end models. This can add to weight. Also, denser materials can deaden noise better in some cases, and give the car more stability at high speeds. People like the feel of a sturdy car, so maybe the increase in weight is delibrate?

The other factor, which I've always thought of as the real culprit, is more subtle. I think cars get bigger because of the basic desire to 'upgrade' and evolve. Consumers like to feel that each new model is an improvement on the last, and perhaps increasing the size helps with that. Each year they get slightly roomier, slightly more luxurious, and slightly more expensive. So when buyers try out a new RAV4 they think "wow, it's more spacious than the old one!". They don't notice the incremental changes until a couple years down the line. Then they have to introduce a new low-end model (ie Echo).

I see where people are going with the safety issues, but its a phyrric victory. As a car gets larger and heavier, the damage it can cause upon impact can be expected to be porportionally equal. My mother got into a bad car accident back in 1983. She was stopped at a red light with a Volvo directly in front of her. She got hit from behind by a huge 1960s Cadillac that didn't stop. My mom's car, a 1981 Volkswagen Rabbit, was crumpled up like an accordian, but the damage her car did to the Volvo was negligable since her car was so lightweight. If my mom had been driving a larger car, it is more likely that the Volvo could also have been severely damaged. From the other end, if the woman who started the accident wasn't driving a bigass Cadillac, instead she was driving a little Volkswagen or a Toyota, then damage to both my mom's car and the Volvo could have been much less.

I guess the irony in this theory is that in order to make a car safer, you need to make it heavy and larger, but by making it heavier and larger, you make it more dangerous to begin with. So therefore you need to make your car even heavier and safer if someone with an equally heavy and safe car hits you. It is a neverending cycle. I'm sorry, but if you compare the deaths related to cars 20 years ago and today, all the fancy safety features and all the crumple zones, people are still dying in accidents at just as alarming a rate. Safety on the road wont come until people learn to be better drivers, not driving drunk, not speeding, not allowing distractions like cell phones, and paying attention and care when they drive.

but look at the new materials used, yah a car can be bigger but also will prolly be lighter and newer cars have good crumpel zones, like the fenders give ya easier to a certain point

I personally like the smaller vehicles, perfect for a commuter car. Quick, nimble, good sightlines (if not behind a SUV or similar), and very good fuel economy. But compared to the number of large SUVs, minivans, and trucks in my area - can get a little too close to comfort at times. Like when I'm pinned between the one guy is trying to type something on his laptop in a Cadillac Escalade, a lady in here Nissan Armada - westling with her two kids in the truck while being pushed from behind by some Joe Blow in a Hummer H2, and the Metrobus decides to cut infront of all of us (they have right of way) - all of us humming along at 70MPH - not a good situation in my Corolla. I don't care if all the vehicles are made of foam - a hit from one of those is gonna hurt. Nothing against SUVs and such - there are plenty of good reasons to own or not own a vehicle like that - just in this case, physics cannot be over-ruled - a bigger vehicle will win in most crashes.

But compared to the number of large SUVs, minivans, and trucks in my area - can get a little too close to comfort at times.
You cant blame that on the vehicle.....the driver is at fault most of the time.

 

Now, dont get me wrong, I dont like to see some princess driving an H2 down the freeway putting her makeup on while her sugar daddy pays for those 8 mpg as she swerves in and out of lanes, but it isnt always the vehicle.

ya isnt but it can seem scarey sometimes, i mean 7th gen corolla isnt big and since ive lowered it and such it does get a bit scarey sometimes driving next to big cars trucks or semis, especially when the wind can move my car at will ha, but ya driver is normally at fault, the vehical their in can just make it worse though

I think it is pretty much safety. I think it might have been 5th gear or something that did a crash test with a old mini van and a new mini van. The vans were loaded with test dummies dummies and they did the half head on crash. I forget what that is called, but with the vans hitting in front, but only about half of the van meet dead on. Anyway, I was really surprised how bad the new mini van trashed the old one. Every one in the old one would have been dead and the new one held up great.

Aside from safety, have any of you been in a older corolla with 5 people in the car? It's NOT fun at all. We loaded up our car with 4 people and a dog over the weekend and we had plenty of room. I never really liked the old boxy smaller corolla. We never looked at them until the 05. My sister n law has a 91-92 I think and it's still reliable, but it's not nearly as nice. Even if it was in mint condition, the newer Corolla's are just much nicer in ride, looks, space, etc.

a big thing ive noticed is wheel size, as the cars get bigger it seems like the wheels stay the same size, a very skinny 14 on the corollas, i said looks cause i havent gone a checked but it just seems like the cars are getting tall and wider but the small wheels stay the same?

Max

9th gen Corollas have 15" wheels. CE gets 185/65s, and the S and LE get 195/65. The late XRS got 16" wheels. GVR- the crash test you're talking about is off-set.

ADDICTIVE.

The Colonel's secret recipe and Ronald McDonald's sauce are very addictive. I'm a recovering fastfood-aholic. Sometimes the addiction comes surging back, and I sucumb to the urge for a Big Mac Combo supersized. It's tough to cut down on fast food. At first, I felt ill just eating health foods. But now, I'm quite used to it. I had no choice because the doctor said my colesterol is way to high for a young person I am and at that rate I will probably have a heart attack before I'm 50. I take responsibility for my lack of discipline and self control, but fast food manufacturers is also blame worthy. They set up their joints around every corner, and advertise relectlessly to kids, like during cartoon time. They make sure you are always mindful of their tasty food. It is any wonder we are so fat as a nation. Interestingly enough, on the other side of the globe in Japan, where people are famous for eating healthy fish and rice, the young generation of Japanese are getting a lot fatter than their anchesters, much to the concern of officials. Is it just a coincidence that fast food restaurants are getting popular in Japan and that kids there are eating a lot more fast food than previous generations? I think not.

The Mazda Miata is a perfect example that cars getting bigger is directly due to our asses getting bigger. Mazda decided during the middle of 2nd gen Miata's production run, for the American markets the Miata would get wider seats with more cushioning. However, just making the seat bigger was not enough; for the 3rd gen Mazda also made the body wider.

I don't agree that cars are bigger for safety and noise reducing reasons. People buy Corollas because they are economical and are willing to compromise. If people are so worried about safety, they would get the bigger model, like the Camry. Also, I personally don't do much commuting and considers myself a very safe driver; therefore, I see no real need for a big bad SUV to protect my bones. I calculate my odds of getting into serious accident to be very small, and I have been in only one very minor incident. I don't want a bigger Corolla. On the other hand, if I was a serious commuter, a bad driver, and don't take driving seriously (some people don't think much about driving), I would must definitely get the biggest SUV with as many airbags as possible that I can afford.

ADDICTIVE.The Colonel's secret recipe and Ronald McDonald's sauce are very addictive. I'm a recovering fastfood-aholic. Sometimes the addiction comes surging back, and I sucumb to the urge for a Big Mac Combo supersized. It's tough to cut down on fast food. At first, I felt ill just eating health foods. But now, I'm quite used to it. I had no choice because the doctor said my colesterol is way to high for a young person I am and at that rate I will probably have a heart attack before I'm 50. I take responsibility for my lack of discipline and self control, but fast food manufacturers is also blame worthy. They set up their joints around every corner, and advertise relectlessly to kids, like during cartoon time. They make sure you are always mindful of their tasty food. It is any wonder we are so fat as a nation. Interestingly enough, on the other side of the globe in Japan, where people are famous for eating healthy fish and rice, the young generation of Japanese are getting a lot fatter than their anchesters, much to the concern of officials. Is it just a coincidence that fast food restaurants are getting popular in Japan and that kids there are eating a lot more fast food than previous generations? I think not.

 

The Mazda Miata is a perfect example that cars getting bigger is directly due to our asses getting bigger. Mazda decided during the middle of 2nd gen Miata's production run, for the American markets the Miata would get wider seats with more cushioning. However, just making the seat bigger was not enough; for the 3rd gen Mazda also made the body wider.

I don't agree that cars are bigger for safety and noise reducing reasons. People buy Corollas because they are economical and are willing to compromise. If people are so worried about safety, they would get the bigger model, like the Camry. Also, I personally don't do much commuting and considers myself a very safe driver; therefore, I see no real need for a big bad SUV to protect my bones. I calculate my odds of getting into serious accident to be very small, and I have been in only one very minor incident. I don't want a bigger Corolla. On the other hand, if I was a serious commuter, a bad driver, and don't take driving seriously (some people don't think much about driving), I would must definitely get the biggest SUV with as many airbags as possible that I can afford.

As a whole, American's are getting bigger. Fast food is only part of that problem though. I could argue that people have to work longer hours and are stuck at a desk, and in the car longer and not having enough time for any exorcise. Or that kids in Japan play even more video games then kids in America. They have the biggest pop culture of video games. It's absolutely insane.

Sub compact cars have still been on the market this whole time. They are making a small come back. The Honda fit and before that was the Del Sol and the CRX. The Toyota Yaris, and before that, the Echo and the paseo. GM has had a history of small crap boxes and now the Evao or whatever it is called. I had a CRX a few years ago and it was the most expensive car to insure out of all our cars. That included our 05 Corolla and our turbo AWD car. When we asked our insurance company why it cost more to insure, they told us because that car had a high bodily harm rate to it. Health cost is a major PITA compared to automotive repair cost. I actually sold the car because of that. It just wasn't worth it to me. The thing barely weighted over 2000 lbs and I probably would have been hurt pretty badly or worse if I had been in anything over a finder binder in that.

Newer cars are safer then older cars. Check out how much space you have between the bumper and the engine block on a new Corolla and then compare that to a older one. Also, even if you are a smaller person, a older Corolla doesn't really fit 3 people in the back very well. Sure, you can make it, but that's about it. I think I was size 31 the last time I was crammed in the back of a older box Corolla. It was still a tight fit.

I know a few big people and they just don't buy small cars. Before fuel economy was really a issue, American's drove the biggest cars. This was before a fat issue. I don't know if it is because of advertising, or the American dream or what, but many American's enjoy driving something bigger. Why do you think the whole SUV is so popular. I've seen really tiny women driving H2s and the big GMs n stuff. They don't buy them so they can fit a large arse in a large seat.

I really enjoy the size of the 9th Gen Corolla and the newer Camery. I haven't been in the brand new one, but my folks have a 02-03 and it's a nice size.

In some cases, bigger isn't always better. The H2 hardly fits on the road and the some how legal H1 barely fits in a HWY lane. I can't stand the size of the new Mustang. As nice as it looks, they made it too big IMO. Ford doesn't even give a curb weight for that car on their web page, but I do know that if a fox body had 300HP and 300 ' lb of torque, that it would run low or flat 13s. I think the new GTs can run a 13.8 with a good driver. The whole HP to weight ratio does make a huge difference, but the current gen Corolla is only about 100lbs more then the last gen. The current gen has a little more power and a better city fuel economy rating. I don't know if it's slower or not, but I think the VVTi takes care of any weight it might have picked up.

That is very true Texasrolla. I'm so angry that they are destroying the Miata's design. I've always loved how cool and tiny the Miata is, or was. The 3rd (current) gen Miata grew by almost 2 inches in all directions from the 1st and 2nd gen.

Gvr4ever, I'm not trying to denounce your logic, but that is why Toyota made the Camry and the Avalon to begin with. A Mid-sized and full sized car is designed for larger people. Personally, I can say that my 8th gen Corolla and my sister's 7th gen Corolla is more than enough room for 4 averaged sized people (I'm 5'9", my sister is 5'7"). If I sit in the back seats of our Corolla's, the front seats only need to be pushed up about 2 inches from full back, still more than enough for an average sized person in front. As for 5 adults fitting into ANY sub-compact or compact car, that is a joke. Even in my mom's 04' Corolla, 3 people don't fit well in the rear seats. Sure there's more headroom, but its still just 67" wide. I think its just Toyota's marketing gimmick to claim the Corolla has a 5 seating capacity. Maybe 2 adults, and a child in the middle, but not 3 full adults in the back. Even my insurance agency classifies my car as 4 seats.

I take responsibility for my lack of discipline and self control, but fast food manufacturers is also blame worthy.
They have the right to sell their products. I watched all of those advertisements as a child, but my parents did not allow me to eat at those establishments. I do not eat there today. Now, dont get me wrong, I am not speaking for these businesses nor am I the strongest willed person in the world (I smoked for a few years), but it is ALL self control.

 

Parents need to fix their children healthy meals and get them out from in front of the TV or playing video games all afternoon.

Bikeman982

I take responsibility for my lack of discipline and self control, but fast food manufacturers is also blame worthy.

They have the right to sell their products. I watched all of those advertisements as a child, but my parents did not allow me to eat at those establishments. I do not eat there today. Now, dont get me wrong, I am not speaking for these businesses nor am I the strongest willed person in the world (I smoked for a few years), but it is ALL self control.

 

Parents need to fix their children healthy meals and get them out from in front of the TV or playing video games all afternoon.

Fast foods are a choice.

 

 

I take responsibility for my lack of discipline and self control, but fast food manufacturers is also blame worthy.

They have the right to sell their products. I watched all of those advertisements as a child, but my parents did not allow me to eat at those establishments. I do not eat there today. Now, dont get me wrong, I am not speaking for these businesses nor am I the strongest willed person in the world (I smoked for a few years), but it is ALL self control.

 

Parents need to fix their children healthy meals and get them out from in front of the TV or playing video games all afternoon.

Just blame it on the parents. A lot of parents out there work full time jobs in order to put food on the table, pay the mortgage, and save for the kids college tuition. Working parents today are under extreme stress. Fast food is a solution for working parents, albeit no a good one.

Not until recently, most people didn't know just how bad fast food is if taken in large amount. I and most of my friends were in that category. One reason is there was not a obesity epidemic and not so many people overweigh back than. There was not a problem for the society, so nobody went looking for the solution. Another reason is we have been programmed by the Conservatives and Libertarians to think cynically about almost everything. When another medical study comes out denouncing this food and that, we automatically think about what possible self-serving motives the scientists have and comes up with reasons to ridicule their studies, like calling them tree hungers. Thank God we have freedom of the press because more and more people are beginning to really listen to what the doctors and nutrientists are saying about fast food.

Fast foods are a choice.

Just like cigarettes...and cocaine.

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