Stick(y) Dilemma - Corolland: the Toyota Corolla Forums

I have a loaded 1999 Corolla LE (the little pig in my sig) that is mechanically fine, but 6 years of driving auto is getting boring, and I'm not particularly fond of its 9L/100km mileage.

My end goal is to get a VVT-i enabled gen 8 Corolla (ie. 2000-2002) with a stick, with power door locks, mirrors and windows. I want to get S/LE trim if possible. I am this specific because I have a full set of unmounted Hydroedge in 185/65/14, a K&N drop-in air filter, and a full set of Tokico struts for ZZE110 that I want to use on the new car.

But such vehicles are very hard to find on the used market. Most are CE with smaller 175/65/14 tires, the others are expensive (over CDN $11000) yet don't have power stuff.

I have the electrical wiring diagram for my car, and as I have disassembled sections of it on numerous occasions I know I can install the power stuff myself if I can source the parts.

Little Pig has a small spider-web crack in the rear left quarter and my dad guess it'll be about $300 to fix, but he hasn't got a quote yet. The front has this big gap between bumper and hood after getting hit in the front and repaired. I still haven't bought any alloy wheels for those who read my previous posts.

Can someone help me rank these options below, cost and effort wise?

1. To hell with 175/65/14, just get a cheap gen8 VVTi stick and pile on all my parts including tires and power stuff?

2. Source a 2004 Corolla (for 130hp) stick powertrain and swap it into Little Pig. (How feasible is this?)

3. Wait for the perfect car, bite the bullet and shell good cash for it?

4. Find the tranny at wrecker and just swap it?

5. Anything that I haven't thought of?

Just that if I am content with my car I wouldn't have posted this in the first place.

1,424 posts

I have a loaded 1999 Corolla LE (the little pig in my sig) that is mechanically fine, but 6 years of driving auto is getting boring, and I'm not particularly fond of its 9L/100km mileage.
My end goal is to get a VVT-i enabled gen 8 Corolla (ie. 2000-2002) with a stick, with power door locks, mirrors and windows. I want to get S/LE trim if possible. I am this specific because I have a full set of unmounted Hydroedge in 185/65/14, a K&N drop-in air filter, and a full set of Tokico struts for ZZE110 that I want to use on the new car.
But such vehicles are very hard to find on the used market. Most are CE with smaller 175/65/14 tires, the others are expensive (over CDN $11000) yet don't have power stuff.
I have the electrical wiring diagram for my car, and as I have disassembled sections of it on numerous occasions I know I can install the power stuff myself if I can source the parts.
Little Pig has a small spider-web crack in the rear left quarter and my dad guess it'll be about $300 to fix, but he hasn't got a quote yet. The front has this big gap between bumper and hood after getting hit in the front and repaired. I still haven't bought any alloy wheels for those who read my previous posts.
Can someone help me rank these options below, cost and effort wise?
1. To hell with 175/65/14, just get a cheap gen8 VVTi stick and pile on all my parts including tires and power stuff?
2. Source a 2004 Corolla (for 130hp) stick powertrain and swap it into Little Pig. (How feasible is this?)
3. Wait for the perfect car, bite the bullet and shell good cash for it?
4. Find the tranny at wrecker and just swap it?
5. Anything that I haven't thought of?
Just that if I am content with my car I wouldn't have posted this in the first place.

3. Is the best option, though it may take a long time.

1. Is a good option if you can get the gen 8 cheap enough, and you can install the parts yourself, and you can get the parts cheap enough.

4. Swapping the tranny would also require swapping a number of parts that you probably haven't thought of and would cost a lot.

2. Good luck finding a 2004 stick powertrain and swapping it, because that would be really expensive, and that is if it was a direct bolt up to your car. The wiring harnesses and the ECU may be different, which would make this unfeasible.

1. To hell with 175/65/14, just get a cheap gen8 VVTi stick and pile on all my parts including tires and power stuff?2. Source a 2004 Corolla (for 130hp) stick powertrain and swap it into Little Pig. (How feasible is this?)

3. Wait for the perfect car, bite the bullet and shell good cash for it?
4. Find the tranny at wrecker and just swap it?
5. Anything that I haven't thought of?

Also depends on what will happen to the 1999 Corolla - part out, trade, project car, paperweight, etc.

Assuming that you do not have the 1999 Corolla - just a pile of parts: 99countour has pretty much summed it up.

Options 1 and 3 are very close - 3 has the advantage of not messing with anything and getting what you want. 1 has an advantage of having less money tied up in it at the end and you already have a pile of parts for it. Boils down to how much do you dislike your current car and what you are willing to pay to get something you want.

Option 4 is a possibility - cost varies wildly depending on your location to said part. I've seen complete conversion go for around $250 (lots of free parts) to as much as $1100 (lots of new parts, rebuilt tranny - shop installed, warranty). Actually, I will be planning to do this very soon (weather, additional parts, time) - just for fun, and because there hasn't been a very good DIY out there yet.

Option 2 is also possible - but like mentioned - very expensive in most cases due to difficulty in getting components and age of the system. Might be able to part out a salvaged unit that was rear ended - but still would be a significant about of money.

1. To hell with 175/65/14, just get a cheap gen8 VVTi stick and pile on all my parts including tires and power stuff?
2. Source a 2004 Corolla (for 130hp) stick powertrain and swap it into Little Pig. (How feasible is this?)
3. Wait for the perfect car, bite the bullet and shell good cash for it?
4. Find the tranny at wrecker and just swap it?
5. Anything that I haven't thought of?
Also depends on what will happen to the 1999 Corolla - part out, trade, project car, paperweight, etc.
Assuming that you do not have the 1999 Corolla - just a pile of parts: 99countour has pretty much summed it up.

It is still in my garage in active service. If I do get my dream car I'd sell the 99 in its entirety.

I am still curious why Buurin calls his car "Little Pig"

Max

ycr, you asked Buurin that in October. The reply was:

ycr: Just because I like pigs, and the Toyota logo does look like pigs to me (????), not to mention the Previa.

Why ar teh tires such a big deal. IF it matters so much, if you buy from a dealer have them swap the tires as a part of the sale. 185's will fit on a rim with 175's. Otherwise, tires only cost $300-400 a set. I don't understand how you'd consider swapping a tranny, yet not consider getting new tires. Besdes, many dealers put junk tires on used cars when they are reconditioning them for resale. Sometimes they don't even match.

Bikeman982

I think if you like the general body and condition of the 1999 model, then just upgrade what you do not like - such as the engine/tranny, wheels/tires. It would be cheaper than buying a new car. You could always sell it and look for a car that is more of what you want. Personally I find that you either have to bite the bullet and drive what you have, or sell it and pay for what you want, or get rid of it for whatever you can get and then buy what you want. The other option is to modify it until you are happy. All choices have their good/bad. The choice is your personal preference.

I upgraded the trash OEM tires on my 03 CE to 185 Michelins at 12K miles.

No big deal since the LE uses 185's.

Why ar teh tires such a big deal. IF it matters so much, if you buy from a dealer have them swap the tires as a part of the sale. 185's will fit on a rim with 175's. Otherwise, tires only cost $300-400 a set. I don't understand how you'd consider swapping a tranny, yet not consider getting new tires. Besdes, many dealers put junk tires on used cars when they are reconditioning them for resale. Sometimes they don't even match.

Two words: Speedo discrepancies. If I know how or where to get the speedo calibrated to 185, or we're positive that the difference is negligible, I'll just go ahead.

And I think resale value is going to take a big hit if equipment inventory is less than what the trim says - for example, a LE without power everything.

Two of the Corolla sticks that I have checked out so far have Michelin Harmony on them. Not too shabby. But one is a $12k CE and the other is a $11k S without power stuff or cruise but with dings in the body and a mirror that fell off the windshield and 124k on the odo. I have to pass.

Finally I have new tires in my garage, just not mounted. Meaning I have to swap them later.

1,424 posts

Why ar teh tires such a big deal. IF it matters so much, if you buy from a dealer have them swap the tires as a part of the sale. 185's will fit on a rim with 175's. Otherwise, tires only cost $300-400 a set. I don't understand how you'd consider swapping a tranny, yet not consider getting new tires. Besdes, many dealers put junk tires on used cars when they are reconditioning them for resale. Sometimes they don't even match.
Two words: Speedo discrepancies. If I know how or where to get the speedo calibrated to 185, or we're positive that the difference is negligible, I'll just go ahead.
And I think resale value is going to take a big hit if equipment inventory is less than what the trim says - for example, a LE without power everything.
Two of the Corolla sticks that I have checked out so far have Michelin Harmony on them. Not too shabby. But one is a $12k CE and the other is a $11k S without power stuff or cruise but with dings in the body and a mirror that fell off the windshield and 124k on the odo. I have to pass.
Finally I have new tires in my garage, just not mounted. Meaning I have to swap them later.

Buurin,

You aren't understanding tire sizes. 185/65/R14 is a tire size. The 185 is how wide the tire is from right to left when looking at the tire from the front of the car. 65 is how tall the tire is when measured between the ground and the wheel rim. R14 means the tire is radial and is for a 14" wheel. The only thing that matters in your speedo calibration is the middle number or the 65, because this number determines your wheel diameter. As long as your new tires and old tires are both ---/65/R14, then your speedo won't be off at all. BTW, the 185 was OEM on the LE, so no problems putting it on a 'S' or 'CE'.

For what it is worth, a 175/65R14 is slightly smaller in diameter than a 185/65R14 - though not enough of a differance to be much of a problem with the speedo.

Remember that the number 65 is the aspect ratio - the percentage of sidewall height to tire width. Same ECM is used between the from trim packages - so fitment of the tire from different trims (fitting S or LE tire to a CE) will have little effect on the speedo (maybe 2% too slow - if 175/65 read 60MPH, 185/65 read 58.6MPH). But that extra rubber will have a marked difference in ride, handling (given the two tires are the same model and brand). All boils down to personal choice in tire size.

1,424 posts

For what it is worth, a 175/65R14 is slightly smaller in diameter than a 185/65R14 - though not enough of a differance to be much of a problem with the speedo.
Remember that the number 65 is the aspect ratio - the percentage of sidewall height to tire width. Same ECM is used between the from trim packages - so fitment of the tire from different trims (fitting S or LE tire to a CE) will have little effect on the speedo (maybe 2% too slow - if 175/65 read 60MPH, 185/65 read 58.6MPH). But that extra rubber will have a marked difference in ride, handling (given the two tires are the same model and brand). All boils down to personal choice in tire size.

Yeah fish, you're right, but I was in a hurry and couldn't expalin aspect ratio. Anyway, you are again correct in saying that the speedo should be minimally off. My post was saying that you wouldn't be off because I consider the speedo to be close enough to not be considered off as long as you stay with the same aspect ratio and don't go up by more than 10mm in width. Just a difference of opinion about 'off'.

I hear ya - difference between the two is almost insignificant (atleast at the resolution of the speedo). You're correct on not having to worry about difference between the two sizes - just throw them on and be done.

Your best option would be to get a 9th generation Corolla in LE trim with a 5-speed stick. This would give you the power options you want, and add cruise control as well.

Just out of curiosity, how do you reckon a 5-speed will alleviate your "boredom" while driving a Corolla? I traded a perfectly good '01 Corolla LE 5-speed for an '03 LE Automatic just to eliminate the alleged boredom of having to row those steenking gears 30 times to drive 4.5 miles to work. The stick wasn't more fun to drive -- it was significantly LESS. If you want a non-boring automobile to drive, I'm afraid it isn't any sort of Corolla -- no matter how equipped! It seems some of you people just don't get what Corollas are about!

Bikeman982

It seems that if you have obtained different tires for your car that you are intending to keep your car and just make some upgrades. I think it may be a cheaper way to go and you could do it over time, instead of all at once. You may always be bored with what you have - depending on what you are expecting. Corollas were never designed to be sports cars that excite people to drive them. They are generally reliable, dependable, economical conservative vehicles for an average person to use for commuting or basic transportation. They are good-looking, fairly inexpensive machines that deserve proper care and respect. I understand your desires to be a little more radical and there are modifications that you can make to help you enjoy your vehicle even more. Hope this helps.

Your best option would be to get a 9th generation Corolla in LE trim with a 5-speed stick. This would give you the power options you want, and add cruise control as well.
Just out of curiosity, how do you reckon a 5-speed will alleviate your "boredom" while driving a Corolla?

Actually driving a 5-speed is a dream I chased for more than 12 years. For the last two times my family bought a car I said "get a stick", and they always went with an auto. While I'm at it I have been urging my brother to ride a bicycle for a decade as well.

And sadly, new Corolla LE with a stick is not an option in Canada. At least not without working the dealer to get a special order and waiting a full 3 months like one of our fellows (name escape me) did.

1,424 posts

Your best option would be to get a 9th generation Corolla in LE trim with a 5-speed stick. This would give you the power options you want, and add cruise control as well.
Just out of curiosity, how do you reckon a 5-speed will alleviate your "boredom" while driving a Corolla?
Actually driving a 5-speed is a dream I chased for more than 12 years. For the last two times my family bought a car I said "get a stick", and they always went with an auto. While I'm at it I have been urging my brother to ride a bicycle for a decade as well.
And sadly, new Corolla LE with a stick is not an option in Canada. At least not without working the dealer to get a special order and waiting a full 3 months like one of our fellows (name escape me) did.

That would be me that waited 3 months, and I'll never do it again. I just wanted a Corolla with virtually every piece of equipment. If I'd have paid an extra $30 a month, I could have got a Solara with the same equipment the day I went in to order the Corolla. Next time, I'm just buying a nicer car with more standard stuff, and forgo any special orders.

Well, when I was younger and dumber, I myself thought it would be neat to have a stick-shift automobile. Then, I got one, a 1972 Mitsubishi (Dodge) Colt. Great car, but in cold weather, which we had a lot of in Buffalo, NY, the clutch cable would get extremely stiff and the pedal very mushy and unresponsive. At it's worst, you could depress the clutch, shift into 1st, and just step off the clutch pedal while holding about 1400 rpm and the clutch would gradually release all by itself slowly enough to allow the car to take off without stalling! And the problem didn't go away until the ambient temp. was well above 60 degrees F. so you were dealing with a stiff clutch for over half the year! I've had this problem with virtually every stick-shift car I've owned, including a Plymouth Horizon, BMW, Opel Reckord, another Mitsubishi (Lancer - British Spec. owned while stationed in U.K.) and the '01 Corolla.

If the car manufacturers could think of a way to keep a clutch linkage light, loose, and with a responsive feel all throughout the vehicles operating temperature range, I'd think of another stick shift. Until then, I'll stick with automatics. I've had the bone taken out of my head that makes me want to shift gears all the time. If I could afford a second car just for sporty driving, then I'd want a stick in it just to get full performance and driving fun. But in my daily driver, I just want to get where I'm going with maximum efficiency and a modicum of comfort. That's what the Corolla's for.

Well, when I was younger and dumber, I myself thought it would be neat to have a stick-shift automobile. Then, I got one, a 1972 Mitsubishi (Dodge) Colt. Great car, but ...
(Snipped stiff clutch story)
I've had this problem with virtually every stick-shift car I've owned, including a Plymouth Horizon, BMW, Opel Reckord, another Mitsubishi (Lancer - British Spec. owned while stationed in U.K.) and the '01 Corolla.
If the car manufacturers could think of a way to keep a clutch linkage light, loose, and with a responsive feel all throughout the vehicles operating temperature range, I'd think of another stick shift. Until then, I'll stick with automatics. I've had the bone taken out of my head that makes me want to shift gears all the time. If I could afford a second car just for sporty driving, then I'd want a stick in it just to get full performance and driving fun. But in my daily driver, I just want to get where I'm going with maximum efficiency and a modicum of comfort. That's what the Corolla's for.

Along comes a listing for a dream car: 02 CE stick with power everything, 90k for C$8700. I'm going to check it out today or tomorrow.

Shouldn't hydraulic clutch linkage alleviates the stiff clutch problem? And I thought gen8 uses it.

Only me, of anyone in the family, have the guts to go stick. Since I now work downtown where parking fees are sky high, that leaves only 2 days a week to drive it at most. With Tokico and Hydroedge on this would be the fun car for the house. At least I still have the Camry for everyone else, that our folks (myself included) agreed to drive into the ground. When it dies, it's time for Camry Hybrid.

I am still curious why Buurin calls his car "Little Pig"

ycr, you asked Buurin that in October. The reply was:
ycr: Just because I like pigs, and the Toyota logo does look like pigs to me (????), not to mention the Previa.

ycr asked me this way back in June. I have the following to prove it: default_tongue

Curious... what is this "Little Pig"/ "Big pig" thing you have on your profile?
They are just the two cars in my family. I like pigs, and the Toyota logo does look "piggy."

----

The dream car was sold to someone else. Must be a really good deal.

I turned up another 01 CE 5 speed with cruise, power doors and windows, but no power mirror. 120333km for $7900, suddenly $400 more than when I turned up its listings on its website. And the stick seems stiff - stiffer than the clutch. Lots of grime on edges of sheet metal, and there's a small lump at the gap between rear bumper and rear left quarter. It seems to have an aftermarket alarm or keyless entry - saw a remote.

Should I arrange to test drive this car?

Max

"Just because I like pigs, and the Toyota logo does look like pigs to me (????), not to mention the Previa."

The quote above, which I originally attributed to ycr, is actually you, buurin, from a thread in October. (Can't do regular quotes from the search function).

As to this 01 CE- a test drive couldn't hurt. Sorry the dream car got away.

Bikeman982

The trouble with thinking that driving a standard will be less boring than an automatic is failing to realize that after a relatively short time the shifting becomes like an automatic motion. It then feels just like an automatic and boredom may surely set in. Automobiles are intended for transportation and not for entertainment. There are numerous creature comforts that have been added but overall they are to get you from point A to point B. If you want excitement, go to an amusement park and get your thrills on rides that go far and fast and put you upside-down and all other crazy positions. That might help. If you want to race a car, try getting something besides a Corolla and then you can modify it until you have no money or resources left. Bring it to a racetrack and beat the --- out of it. That would be exciting.