Some Credible Information On Engine Sludge

This is a Corolla forum and no Corolla engine has ever been sludge prone. So sludge is not an issue of concern for Corolla owners.

Paul, I'm on your side.

I stuck this post in because the Corolla engine is being trashed on a few other sites. Call it a pre emptive strike if you will.

There have been a few accounts being posted about "alledged" sludged engines in Corollas. Not here, but elsewhere.

Most of these accounts are being staged and/or cut pasted by non other than Charlene Blake, so chances are she's merely trying to raise the sludge flag again.

I just wanted to throw a bit of common sense into the mix, in case she tried to resurface here.

What made you think that what you wrote is "credible information on oil sludge"?

I could not find any. Help me

Please tell us:

(1) What sort of help do you need?

(2)Why you don't think this is credible information?

Or is it one of those "after the fact"situations where all you want is someone else to blame for the problems you've already had?

When people state that this is "credible information" I expect a serious backup of all your "facts"( have not seen one). How about that.

BTW, I don't check oil between changes

I just use your invitation ...:-)))

Pray tell what "facts" do you dispute?

And do you have any "facts" to support a contradictory position?

Furthermore, a very solid argument could be made that anyone who doesn't check their engine's oil between changes is foolish.

i have about 30k miles in 1 1/2 yrs,

Sorry to report that I have no problems

with oil sludge with oil changes at 5-6 k miles.

Engine is clean, the oil(dino) is clean.

03 corolla driven in cold winters and city stop and go.

I believe that the engine in question, or the engine that got the problem exposed is a v6 version used in the Sienna van ....correct???? They're also not the only engine having rouble...another for example is a V-8 used in Dodge Durangos. Some of this has to do with excessive heat in areas of the head/block leading to coking of the oil.

Use full synthetic and don't worry about it. I bought a Corolla with 1.8 engine and 105,00 miles....great little car. I drive 110 miles per day...95% highway at 75 to 80 MPH. My first oil change interval (with Mobil1 5W-30) was 15K miles and will be 15K miles from this point forward. In the first 15K mile interval I used approximately 3/4 quart. Oil came out a nice healthy brown. I've done this on a number of high mileage but sound engines with great success and expect this engine to be purring nicely at 300K.

I used the Mobil 1 product in the early 80's when it was advertised as 25K intervals. I'm guessing that they pulled that marketing back so they didn't have to deal with auto manufacturer warranty issues with all of the bogus American engines that were breaking down with unrelated failures. The slant six was in the 1979 Dodge Aspen that I was driving, ran perfectly for the 80K miles that I drove it and got 27 to 29 miles per gallon running Gasahol. When I sold the car with 100K miles the rockers etc were still nice and clean and ran like new with next to no oil consumption.

I go the 7500 mile routine with cars that don't put the miles on as quickly.

The way I look at it is...nobodies perfect...including Toyota. They'll fix whatever problems they have but don't expect them to admit that they're wrong...it's just not part of their culture.

Good luck,

Jay in MA

Agreed. That observation could apply to ANY car/engine out there today.

If anything, it might cause folks to perhaps take care of their cars much better - something I know Mr. Paul agrees with wholeheartedly.

IMO oil sludging is occuring to individuals that use "Quick Lube" oil changes every 3000 miles, yet drive mostly short trips with lots of idling. It's possible for a car driven on the freeway for 10,000 miles to have less wear than an engine with 3000 miles used by a soccer mom running errands around town and sitting in the parking lot for soccer practice to end with the engine idling for 1 hour or more at a time.

At low RPM's the oil pressure is low, the cheap ol filters used by these shops may further reduce flow, combined wiht cheap $0.99/qt oil that is prone ot onerheating, and then possibly sludging.

Additionally most oil is burned when the engine is cold before the engine component have heated ot full operating temp. that means a car driving mostly short trips will dramatically burn more oil than a vehicle used for longer trips at hgiher speeds.

I've argued that an operating hour gauge should be a standard item on all vehicles. Operating hours is a much better indicator of engine use than mileage. Even a lifetime average operating speed (mph) would be very helpful.

I'd just like to add a couple of things to that post by Cherry128.

The low cost filters used by Jiffy Lubes and their ilk often don't have features that better quality filters do, such as a backflow valve. I don't care who made your engine, if the backflow preventer in your oil filter hasn't held some oil up in the engine's valve train, that momentary rattling sound you often hear on starting is a precursor to premature engine failure! It's a sign of low lubrication. After enough of those low lubrication cycles, your engine will be burnt toast!

The other point I'd like to make is this. The only wrong thing with extended oil change intervals most carmakers offer today, is that this recommendation tends to give owners a false sense of security.

A great many owners just never look under the hood between oil changes any more because of the implied "Well, if I don't have to change oil before 7500 miles, everything's got to be OK".

I submit all this kerfuffle over sludge would disppear pretty quickly if more owners looked under the hood once in a while!

No new car should burn a quart of oil in 8000 miles. I've never needed to add oil between changes. Typically I even underfill by as much as 1/3 of a quart. There is little benefit of having extra oil in the oil pan. Extra oil can increase power loss from the crankshaft moving through the oil. There only needs to be enough oil that the pick-up doesn't run dry even when cornering hard. You can run as much as 1 quart low (low mark on the dip stick) and still have enough oil for this.

1/2 quart or even 1 quart low in a 4 quart system, won't cause and engine to fail. I''d estimate about 1 quart is used (inside the passages) by the engine when running, that still leaves 2 quarts in the oil pan.

Excuse me, but there is a sludge discussion section at the top of this board where all other sludge discussions have been banished. Shouldn't this be with the proper topic?

Regarding which engines are prone to sludge, I can't say, but Toyota offers the 8 year, unlimited mile warranty on the 4 cyl. AND V-6 found in the Camry, Solara, Celica, Highlander, Seinna, Avalon, Lexus RX300, and Lexus ES300. It is roughly for engines from 1997 - 2002, but there are some years not covered for some models. I think Celica is just for 1 or 2 of those years. Toyota says it is not an engine design problem, just a problem of people not changing oil, but I am not sure why these models have the problem of their owner not changing the oil if that is truly the problem.

Signs of sludge are smoke in exhaust, MIL illuminates, visible sludge on oil cap or dipstick, heavy use of oil. If you have these signs, Toyota will pull the valve cover and check for sludge. The repair is free for the above models and includes provision of a free loaner car. I have heard that repairs range from a simple engine cleaning up to getting a whole new engine. Owners must prove that they reasonably maintained their engines to qualify for the reimbursement. At one time they said this proof was one oil change receipt per year. I don't know what you need to show if you change your own oil.

An interesting series of postings on recent sludge problems in Toyotas can be found in the Toyota section of the website www.thecomplaintstation.com. There are 40 some odd pages mostly filled with Toyota sludge complaints culled from other sites over the past year or more.

One more note. Toyota oil change recommendations are for 7,500 miles for normal driving conditions and 5,000 miles if you primarily drive under very specific special conditions, like frequent stops and starts in freezing weather and driving on dirt roads. If these intervals aren't going to cut it in a Toyota then the manual should be changed.

I take exception to the comment that Corolla's are not prone to sludge. I thought all cars could be prone to sludge with improper maintenance, so sludge prevention techniques should benefit all. There are some engines that do have a greater tendency to sludge, either intolerant of normal maintenance or possibly some quirk in the design. Cruisin listed the models that Toyota has indicated are more prone to sludge thus coverage under the sludge policy.

Oil is cheaper than parts . For short trips frequent oil changes are a must. It helps to take a good run once a week. We used to have a 86 K car which we had 12 yrs - never touched the engine and oil changed twice a year ( only about 5000 kil a yr - wifes grocery car) I checked the oil pressure hot and got 30psi idle and 60psi reved up with about 145,000 kil.( new spec) The car was taken for a good run every Sat - especially in winter which could get to -40C. I have been doing my own regular maintenance for almost 50 yrs and oil changes should not be skimped on. My daughters 2003 Corolla I do every 4000kil - recommended 8000kil or every 6 months. She drives moslty short trips but far enough to warm up.

Many new cars use as much as a quart (sometimes more) every 1000 miles. People don't like it (I wouldn't) but the car manufacturers claim that it is normal usage.

Regarding oil level. The experts will tell you that maximum filtering is done when the oil level is full as the dirt particles are kept in suspension better when the full complement of oil is present.

The oil is also a major component in keeping the engine cool as much of the heat is dissipated through the oil.

Jay in MA

Hey, great input from everyone of you!

Thanks for all of it.

If you get a chance,visit Cartrackers.com, The Complaint Station, or some of the other sites where a few disgruntled individuals are liberally trashing Toyota and misleading people with trumped up sludge stories, and deceptive hype about it.

Some of this objective and common sense advice you guys have come up with needs to be told at these trashfests.

Yes, do visit those sites to read how Veritas is treating people who go there to post Toyota complaints. This isn't about telling people how to maintain their car. This is accusing owners of abuse with no evidence to the contrary. He calls them liars and accuses them of being people they are not. What better way to get angry Toyota owners more angry? Thanks Veritas! You are probably giving these people more incentive to join together in fighting this mess.

Question for the site administrators - at one time there were several discussions about sludge in Toyota engines under this special heading and now there is only one. How can the other discussions be accessed?

All the discussions are still here. The forum by default shows the last 30 days of posts. Chances are those other posts are older than 30 days.

You can use the drop-down menus to change that value.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/reviews....1&src=VIP&tab=4

Description of sludge problem in Toyotas (click on the red boxes for engine):

"An occasional problem on this vehicle is failure of the Engine. Failure of the Engine is caused because the engine oil gels. Engine oil gelling will also cause excessive engine oil usage. When proper maintenance schedules for oil changes are followed, oil gelling should not occur. Toyota has issued an 8 year unlimited mileage goodwill repair for this condition. The cost to repair the Engine is estimated at $4,500.00 for parts and $1,384.50 for labor. All prices are estimates based on $65 per flat rate hour and do not include diagnostic time or any applicable sales tax."