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Ellis

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  1. The article also supports Dave's statement "I for one, by the way, am willing to believe General Motors' research on oil depletion and not live according to some old fish tales about 3,000 mile oil changes. Technology has moved since 1950." The article states that there are very few makes or models with 3000 mile oil change intervals and that 5000/7500 mile oil changes are not considered extended drain intervals (the article defines extended drain as 10,000 miles). It goes into discussion on the improvements in motor oils that allow for these longer drains. It also covers the environmental importance of longer drains as Dave also pointed out. The article states: "Vehicular environmental impact is also a topic with which the automobile manufacturer must contend. The European Union views used motor oil as a form of pollution and has since 1974 issued directives on its proper disposal and use. The EU legal basis and objective concerning waste and pollution is to “avoiding waste by promoting environmentally-friendly and less waste-intensive technologies.” Critically important is the emphasis on the reduction of waste production, rather than simply looking at ways to deal with pollution that is produced. Working within these guidelines, the ACEA would be obliged to set sequences that allow for extended drain intervals." I agree that 3000 mile drains may be necessary to avoid sludge, but they really shouldn't be needed. Particularly when manufacturers like Toyota are touting these longer drains.
  2. Here is an interesting discussion on oil change intervals. http://www.mema.org/cmspages/getAttch.php?id=102
  3. Thanks Toyotatruthseeker and Dave. I was just providing some information that I thought would be of help. There have been plenty of other problems with makes/models of cars that have not affected the entire population of that make or model and took a certain set of conditions to occur. A popular example would be rollover accidents in Ford Explorers with Firestone tires. All Explorers with Firestones weren't rolling over, but there was an increased potential, possibly when combined with hazardous road conditions and other conditions.
  4. "urconscience", I don't understand where you are coming from or what your point is. I agree with the importance of maintaining your car properly, doing proper oil changes to extend the life, etc., etc. I also agree that sludge is not just a Toyota phenomenon. I know you are trying to pull me into some sort of pointless argument with you but it isn't going to happen. I have posted what I think is beneficial information to people who ALREADY have/had sludge so they know about the problem and where to turn to for assistance. Also, anyone buying a used one of the listed models should be aware of the problem and should know to check the engine for sludge and request all maintenance records before buying one. Regardless of what you say, Toyota really DOES have a sludge policy to cover the repairs for those who have this problem in specific vehicles over specific years if they have reasonably maintained their car. Kudos to Toyota for having this sludge policy because it is actually better than some other manufacturers are doing with their models that have a propensity to develop sludge, Chrysler for example. Where I think Toyota has fallen short is that they have limited it to very specific models and model years. One of the things I question Toyota on is why isn't a Corolla owner who has reasonably maintained their vehicle and can prove it and who develops sludge also covered? I don't expect you to answer this because only someone inside Toyota would be able to do anything other than speculate.
  5. Found this on another website. Not sure if all the links are still active... www.toyota.com Here you can find announcement of sludge program, copy of the letter that was to be sent to 3.3 million owners, and acknowledgement by Toyota that this is just an issue with two specific Toyota engine designs. Toyota says it is not a design problem, but an owner maintenance issue, yet limits the policy to two specific engines over a given range of time. www.AERA.org The information on this site is not readily available except to mechanics, however, one of their announcements addresses the problem. In this announcement they discuss the problem of sludge in properly maintained engines (something that Toyota says is an impossibility). www.nhtsa.gov This government-run web site includes owners’ report of sludge engine failures by year and by auto make and model. Search under “Problems and Issues” heading. NHTSA opened an investigation into the sludge problem in 2002 but closed the investigation in a matter of a few months because of Toyota’s announcement of the sludge policy. MSN Autos site: www.autos.msn.com/research/vip/reviews.aspx?modelid=9448&trimid=-1&src=VIP&tab=4 The above link is for the Avalon, but all the models covered by the sludge policy are reported to have significant engine problems. These ratings are based on reports from independent garages (not ones that are manufacturer affiliated) so they give an unbiased picture of problems that these garages see in vehicles. www.yotarepair.com A former Toyota mechanic acknowledges the problem. (this site dedicated to Toyota’s even has a “Sludge Zone” www.autonews.com AutoNews and several other publications included the announcement of the sludge problem in February and April 2002. Several publications had subsequent announcements. www.autosafety.org See complaints (all since AFTER the announcement of the sludge policy) on Toyota engines. Also has link to Auto News article www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html As of this writing, over 375 signatures of owners who have experienced sludge and are dissatisfied with Toyotas response to their problem. www.google.com Do a web search for “Toyota Engine Sludge” and you find numerous reports of engine sludge in Toyota’s. www.toyotatechs.com View from a garage that specializes in Toyotas. www.edmunds.com See discussion of engine sludge on this forum, including one by Toyota rep (tmsusa1). www.corolland.com Includes discussion of sludge problem. Numerous other websites with sludge reports include: www.rateitall.com www.toyotaownersclub.com www.lexusownersclub.com Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution web site www.complaints.com www.carsurvey.org www.carreview.com www.talkaboutautos.com www.ripoffreport.com www.realcaraudio.com www.toyota-automotive-store.com www.thecomplaintstation.com www.toyonda.com www.oilanalysis.com www.toyotaworld.com
  6. Link to Dec. 2005 Autosafety.org http://www.autosafety.org/uploads/phpcK4UN...eInspection.pdf
  7. Various links with information on the sludge problem to help cut through the hype. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/0...yota-sludge.htm http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 http://www.lubestop.com/images/ToyotaSludge.pdf http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...204/ai_n6980214 http://montreal.ctv.ca/cfcf/news/oys&id=842#842 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ma...05/overview.htm https://www.corolland.com/sludge.html http://www.synlube.com/sludge.htm http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm http://www.eyewitnessnewstv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4452984 http://yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20...d14sludge1.html http://www.wcpo.com/external/dwym/13a7230f.html http://www.automotivedigest.com/view_art.asp?articlesID=6289 http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=8653&vf=5 http://www.crash-worthiness.com/html/oil-sludge.html http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=5022 http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Arc...002/May/07.html http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/shared/nines/002.cfm http://www.lemonlawcenter.com/engine-sludge.htm http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0adfa/0 http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html http://www.crash-worthiness.com/toyota/toyota.html http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002/02/12/035635.html http://www.motorist.org/news/LETTERS/2004/Nov30_04.pdf http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=.../qa_062802.tmpl http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20...d14sludge2.html http://experts.about.com/q/Toyota-Repair-8...enna-Sludge.htm http://www.licquia.org/archives/2005/06/12...nd-reputations/ (check out the comments on this posting -- George Jones = TheSource???? http://www.licquia.org/archives/2005/08/25...-george-jones/) http://www.autosafety.org/getconsumercomplaints2.php http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=122&did=1113 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 (sludged Corolla) http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0 http://www.autosafety.org/showconsumercomp...lid=-1&offset=0
  8. another interesting article. http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/shared/nines/002.cfm
  9. http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...S/50716010/1003
  10. I think Toyota is doing something about it. They have their 8 year unlimited mile policy for some of their models. They do seem to fall short, though. Like, why not include the Corolla? Why not extend the model years covered to include 2002 and newer? Here is an interesting report i found on the internet. This guy was told about the policy and is getting it fixed (yea!). What is interesting is the response from someone who is obviously a mechanic (Toyota?) who just fixed three last week! Do the math. That is pretty scary if you think how many of these could be failing! (link is http://experts.about.com/q/832/3557065.htm) Expert:paul p. Date:5/21/2004 Subject:I'm having my camry engine sludge repaired and have a question Question I have been drove crazy with my 97 camry since the day I bought it 2 years ago (used) It has had head gaskets replaced, valve seals changed, timing belt, camseal replaced, PCV replaced, and I don't even know the names of everything thats been fixed. I took into my dealer today for diagnostics because I have had a loss of power and once again smokeing, and my ind. mech. wanted a print out to see what it was this time. Toyota tells me that it engine sludge and I qualify for the SPA and reappointed me for next week. I'm thrilled my car will be fixed but I'm afraid, me being a women, they may not replace everything that was truly affected by the sludge. What things should I make sure they have checked or replaced? A little knowledge goes a long way when you a female in a dealership service dept. and any knowledge you could pass along would definately help me out. I know I only have a one shot deal at this and if something goes wrong with my engine down the road I won't have the money to fix it or buy another car!Thanks so much! Answer OK I HEAR YA. I WILL HELP YOU. I JUST DID 3 OF THEM LAST WEEK.!!!! THIS IS WHAT WILL BE DONE. ALL DEALERS HAVE TO TURN IN OLD PARTS TO GET PAID ON THE S.P.A. SO THEY HAVE TO DO THE JOB RIGHT OR IT WILL COMEBACK AND THE DEALER WILL LOOSE MONEY PLUS LOOSE THE REPUTATION AS A TOYOTA DEALER. THEY WILL REPLACE THE FOLLOWING; PISTON RINGS,(POSSIBLY PISTONS), ALL C-ROD BEARINGS,MAIN BEARINGS,OIL PUMP AND PICK-UP,ALL ENGINE SEALS INC. HEAD GASKET. THEY SHOULD LAP THE VALVES AND REPLACE THE VALVE SEALS.ALSO THEY SHOULD REPLACE THE VALVE COVER. THIS IS ALL ASSUMING THAT THE BLOCK IS IN GOOD SHAPE. IF NOT THEY WILL GIVE YOU A BRAND NEW SHORT BLOCK. NOW THAT IS WHAT TOYOTA WILL COVER!!!! YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PLUGS,AND A TIMING BELT AND OTHER NONE WARRENTY PARTS.. BUT IF U SCREAM ENOUGH THEY MAY DO IT FOR NOTHING. HOPE I HELPED. PAUL P.
  11. Actually, the Toyota sludge is as described in the article. Toyota initially called it "gel" when they first announced their policy because of the consistency being jelly-like.
  12. Here are a few more. The first one is about a Corolla that sludged. http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2005/02/050223oil.shtml http://kyw.com/consumer/local_story_187205612.html http://www.newsnet5.com/money/4192954/detail.html
  13. Thought some recent articles on sludge may be of interest: http://www.consumerreports.org/main/conten...D=1120745101755 http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/042005_TS_toyotaengine.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20...d14sludge1.html http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/dontwa...ey/5a71337.html http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindea...4390.xml&coll=2
  14. Officially, Toyota says a quart per 1000 miles is "normal". It is a little much to me. You really need to keep an eye on oil level at every gas fill up regardless of current consumption rates.
  15. Have you monitored oil consumption? Sometimes it can be a problem in Corollas.