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Difficulty In Shifting From 1St To 2Nd Gear

By datsa, August 10, 2011



I've noticed increasing difficulty of shifting from first to second gear with my manual transmission.

This is not a constant problem, but happens intermittently, although with increasing frequency starting this morning. When this does happen, I can shift from 1st to neutral, but then it feels like I am hitting a blockage when shifting from neutral into 2nd gear. If I drive it a bit, then I can shift from 1st to 2nd fine; but later, the problem occurs again.

 

Occasionally I've had problems shifting from 2nd into 3rd, but I can easily shift from 2nd to 4th. But this has been a rare occurrence.

Shifting to the other gears are fine.

 

Shifting between the gears while the engine is off and the clutch is in seems fine.

Some of the causes which I am considering are:

* shifter linkage

* manual fluid level

* clutch reservoir leakage

* internal transmission damage

Any other ideas?

ever_green

is the grinding? what do you mean by difficult shifting? is it clunky, stiff, notchy, crunching?

There is no grinding or trashing of gears as far as I can hear. Rather, when the car is moving (and only when the car is moving), I press the clutch down, move the shifter from 1st to 2nd, but it stops in neutral and won't go into 2nd gear. This tends to be worse at lower speeds, and if I rev the engine I can sometimes "pop" it into 2nd (see the next paragraph below). If I coast a bit, or wait a bit, it will then go into 2nd, but since waiting can be dangerous if you are trying to merge into traffic, I will rev the engine to enter 3rd or 4th. For some reason, I can enter 4th gear at a lower speed than I can enter 3rd gear. If I try to enter 3rd gear at too low of a speed, I hear a grinding or thrashing of gears colliding.

But I do feel a "pop" and sometimes hear a hear a pop noise once I go into 2nd on some occasions. I had heard and felt similar sounds in the past, but it was very rare, perhaps once every few months. Now, I can feel it and hear it every time.

The clutch pedal travel distance does appear to be not as "tight" as it used to be. I am looking to adjusting this.

There appears to be sufficient clutch fluid in the reservoir and there are no leaks.

The clutch pressure plate and related parts are relatively new, about 3 years old; the original clutch died at 203,000 miles.

The work was done by somebody else and not me (I didn't have time nor the expertise to do it, but I would not mind doing it myself: just no time to take on such a large project myself and I've never done a transmission before).

The only service that I have had done on the transmission is a drain and refill at the time of the clutch work. There are no transmission leaks that I can see and the fluid level in the transaxle (in my car the front differential and transaxle are in one case and transmission bathes them both; in automatics, they are separate) seems okay.

I am considering draining the transaxle fluid, looking at the condition of what comes out, then popping off the end cap of the transmission and seeing if there is gunk inside, and refilling the transmission case with something like Amsoil 75W-90 or Redline MT90. I think there is regular SAE 90 in there right now.

Also, I just read a thread on another site about the synchronizer failing but would that not affect going into all gears. Only entering 2nd gear is the main problem. Entering 3rd gear has been a problem that I have resolved by simply being at the right speed. But the gear oil recommended for my transmission is GL-5 which contains those sulfurs that may damage brass synchros. Perhaps I should switch to GL-4 like Redline MT90? The Amsoil 75W-90 is GL-5.

What do you think?

Well, yesterday, I did two things to the car:

1) I lubricated the shifter linkages inside the engine bay with silicone lubricant spray, including the rubber bellows. I also cleaned off any oil that were on the linkages; the oil came from a distributor leak, which has since diminished greatly since I installed a new distributor O-ring and ran Auto-Rx through the system.

2) I checked the clutch fluid level; it seemed a bit low, so I put in a small amount.

 

I went and got my car smogged after I did the above. On the drive to the smog place, the transmission still experienced the 1st to 2nd shifting problem. The car did pass smog with flying colors with results almost as good as the day I bought it 7 years ago. (I attribute that to readjusting the timing, changing the oil, running Auto-Rx through the oil system and running Chevron Techron through the gas system to clean the fuel injectors.)

 

Interestingly, as of this morning, that troublesome 1st-gear-to-2nd-gear shifting problem has greatly diminished; indeed, it has almost gone away. I could not duplicate the full problem no matter what I did.

 

I have not had time to change the transaxle fluid nor the rear differential fluid. I was confused about whether I should stick with API GL5 for the transaxle (since the manual transaxle and rear differential have hypoid gears and GL5 is supposed to be required for that, but is supposed to be bad for the synchros) or if I should go with API GL4, which is better on the synchros but does not have the high pressure resistance that GL5 does. I called up Red Line Oil the technician with whom I spoke recommended that I stay with a GL5 oil due to the presence of the hypoid gears in both differentials, despite its negative effects on the brass and copper synchros. I will also check with Amsoil about what they say. Neither of my local Toyota dealerships could recommend a brand of gear lube. The shop manual says E50 GL5 hypoid gear oil, but neither dealership carries it. I am investigating this further.

In the meantime, I plan on putting Auto-Rx into both differentials and once I run through the clean and rinse phases, I'll drain them and replace them with a decent gear oil.

 

 

You spend far too much time on bobistheoilguy. The only way you would be tuned into redline ,auto rx , and gl-5 oils.

Myself , i think that auto rx is just overpriced solvents. I like b-g products ,or mmo, just as well . For gear oils there are a lot of gl-5 to choose ,but I doubt that was factory fill in 2000.

. For example, most modern gearboxes require a GL-4 oil, and separate differentials (where fitted) require a GL-5 oil. It is important that purchasers check the oil against the vehicle manufacturer's specification to ensure it does not contain any aggressive chemicals that may attack yellow metal gear components, such as phosphor bronze.

# API GL-4. Oils for various conditions - light to heavy. They contain up to 4.0% effective antiscuffing additives. Designed for bevel and hypoid gears which have small displacement of axes, the gearboxes of trucks, and axle units. Recommended for non-synchronized gearboxes of US trucks, tractors and buses and for main and other gears of all vehicles. These oils are basic for synchronized gearboxes, especially in Europe.

# API GL-5. Oils for severe conditions. They contain up to 6.5% effective antiscuffing additives. The general application of oils in this class are for hypoid gears having significant displacement of axes. They are recommended as universal oils to all other units of mechanical transmission (except gearboxes). Oils in this class, which have special approval of vehicle manufacturers, can be used in synchronized manual gearboxes only. API GL-5 oils can be used in limited slip differentials if they correspond to the requirements of specification MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05. In this case the designation of class will be another, for example API GL-5+ or API GL-5 LS.

You spend far too much time on bobistheoilguy. The only way you would be tuned into redline ,auto rx , and gl-5 oils.

You are correct in that BITOG introduced me to Red Line oils and Auto-Rx, and the issues inherent with GL-4 and GL-5. But I have not been to that site in years.

 

Myself , i think that auto rx is just overpriced solvents. I like b-g products ,or mmo, just as well .

Having read the patent and used the product, I believe there is some merit to the product's claims. I have used Auto-Rx twice in my engine (severe cleaning schedule) and once in both gear boxes and find that it does live up to its claims despite its high price and, perhaps, hype.

 

The valve train in my Corolla is considerably cleaner after using Auto-Rx than with any previous engine cleaner I have tried. After using Auto-Rx, my engine is quieter, runs smoother, and some oil leaks near the distributor have gone away after being present for years.

For gear oils there are a lot of gl-5 to choose ,but I doubt that was factory fill in 2000.

The factory fill was apparently Toyota transaxle oil E50, which is a GL-5 oil; the shop manual states to use E50 API GL-5 in the manual transaxle and rear differential. In the manual transmissions of my type of Corolla, the manual transaxle is a "quadruple case axle" (Toyota's words from their shop manual), encompassing the manual transmission, front differential, center differential, and transfer

 

:

However, the manual transmission contains synchros (perhaps of soft metals, I am unsure) while the transfer contains hypoid gears. The latter call for GL-5, but GL-5 can be hard on the aforementioned synchros. Unfortunately, since everything is in one case, the same gear oil bathes all four axles. (In the automatic transmissions, the transmission is separate from the front differential, center differential, and transfer). I just did not want to ruin the synchros while supporting the hypoid gears. Because the rear differential has hypoid gears, it also calls for GL-5 as well, as you state below:

For example, most modern gearboxes require a GL-4 oil, and separate differentials (where fitted) require a GL-5 oil. It is important that purchasers check the oil against the vehicle manufacturer's specification to ensure it does not contain any aggressive chemicals that may attack yellow metal gear components, such as phosphor bronze.

In your description below on GL-4, did you mean to say in the last line "non" synchronized gear boxes or is that correct. Sentences 4 and 5 seem contradictory, but perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

# API GL-4. Oils for various conditions - light to heavy. They contain up to 4.0% effective antiscuffing additives. Designed for bevel and hypoid gears which have small displacement of axes, the gearboxes of trucks, and axle units. Recommended for non-synchronized gearboxes of US trucks, tractors and buses and for main and other gears of all vehicles. These oils are basic for synchronized gearboxes, especially in Europe.

Back to the 1st to 2nd gear problem:

It am wondering if low clutch fluid was to blame for the shifting problem: I think the clutch piston is leaking. After a lot of driving, I notice drops of clutch fluid

leaking past the sleeve of the clutch piston and dripping down the asphalt sheeting and rolling down behind the driver's footwell carpet. If I clean up the drip,

it returns but only after hours of driving. Over time, this may have contributed to low clutch fluid levels. I am double-checking this theory but marking the clutch level, and checking the piston sleeve under the dash for clutch fluid leakage.

After a few hundred miles of driving, I have verified, that, indeed, there is clutch fluid leaking out of the clutch piston that is operated by the left foot.

Do I need to change out the entire clutch cylinder and piston unit, or can I just change the gasket?

Well since I have spent to much time on bobistheoilguy, here is my opinion based on what I've used in my 04 Corolla (C59 transmission).

Depending on where you live (I'm in NC, so coldish winter and hot summer) I run a combo of MT-90 and MTL, 1 quart of each. On the first fluid change I ran 2 quarts of the MT-90, which worked fine, but in cold weather on cold starts it was really notchy and hard to shift. I did talked to Redline about using them together and they said it wasn't a problem. I've been running that combination for +20k miles and I like it a lot. That's just my opinion, but then again I also run Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil and I'm sure a lot of people would just consider that a waste of money as well....



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