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2003 Corolla S Engine Tapping

By Marc, June 10, 2011



I own a 2003 Corolla S with the 1.8L VVT-i and 4-speed A/T (also has A/C, PW, PB, and most of the factory options), which I purchased new in November of '02. The car has just under 67K miles, and sees regular service. Driving is about a 50/50 split between around-town and highway. It's been a great car, but a few days ago I noticed a tapping noise which occurs at idle when I run the RPM's up to about 2K, and whenever the A/T upshifts. On hills and when passing (downshifting), the noise gets worse and it loses power BIG TIME. Has anyone else had this problem? Is it a valve-train issue? Any input would be appreciated!

Does the tapping noise increase in tempo and/or intensity as you raise the RPMs? Is there a point where the tapping noise is less noticeable - ie, when the engine is cold/hot, etc.? Does it tap excessively at idle speeds (no throttle input)?

Sounds like whenever the engine is heavily loaded, it makes that tapping noise and loses power. Couple of possibilities - one is detonation, knocking or pinging, which will cause that telltale metallic knock/tap/or pinging noise when you load the engine. Some cases, you could get enough knocking to cause the ECM to pull timing to protect the engine - when that happens, there will be a very noticeable loss of power. A quick way to check for that is to run premium fuel once to see if helps with the pinging - as the most likely cause of this hot spots inside the combustion chamber (carbon deposits the most likely) causing the detonation. The higher octane has a higher resistance to knocking and detonation.

Another possibility is the VVTi system, in particular the OCV (oil control valve) and its associated oil filter, are plugged up - causing the engine timing to be thrown off. If the filter is clogged with debris, sludge, etc. - it will reduce the available oil and oil pressure made to the oil control valve. Without that oil and pressure, the valve cannot move the VVTi actuator correctly, throwing the timing off. Normally, all this will be caught and flagged by the CEL (check engine lamp), but in more gradual failure cases, may not trigger the failure threshold. There is a write up on this forum to remove the OCV filter and inspect it for debris. If the filter is clean, then the oil control valve and the rest of the VVTi system. Sometimes switching to a different motor oil or shortening the oil change interval can help.

Can you please tell me where to find the OCV filter? They pack so much stuff under the hood these days! Thanks!

Does the tapping noise increase in tempo and/or intensity as you raise the RPMs? Is there a point where the tapping noise is less noticeable - ie, when the engine is cold/hot, etc.? Does it tap excessively at idle speeds (no throttle input)?

 

Sounds like whenever the engine is heavily loaded, it makes that tapping noise and loses power. Couple of possibilities - one is detonation, knocking or pinging, which will cause that telltale metallic knock/tap/or pinging noise when you load the engine. Some cases, you could get enough knocking to cause the ECM to pull timing to protect the engine - when that happens, there will be a very noticeable loss of power. A quick way to check for that is to run premium fuel once to see if helps with the pinging - as the most likely cause of this hot spots inside the combustion chamber (carbon deposits the most likely) causing the detonation. The higher octane has a higher resistance to knocking and detonation.

Another possibility is the VVTi system, in particular the OCV (oil control valve) and its associated oil filter, are plugged up - causing the engine timing to be thrown off. If the filter is clogged with debris, sludge, etc. - it will reduce the available oil and oil pressure made to the oil control valve. Without that oil and pressure, the valve cannot move the VVTi actuator correctly, throwing the timing off. Normally, all this will be caught and flagged by the CEL (check engine lamp), but in more gradual failure cases, may not trigger the failure threshold. There is a write up on this forum to remove the OCV filter and inspect it for debris. If the filter is clean, then the oil control valve and the rest of the VVTi system. Sometimes switching to a different motor oil or shortening the oil change interval can help.

Belay that! Found the write-up and associated pics. Hope this takes care of the problem. Thanks, Fishexpo!

Can you please tell me where to find the OCV filter? They pack so much stuff under the hood these days! Thanks!

 

Does the tapping noise increase in tempo and/or intensity as you raise the RPMs? Is there a point where the tapping noise is less noticeable - ie, when the engine is cold/hot, etc.? Does it tap excessively at idle speeds (no throttle input)?

Sounds like whenever the engine is heavily loaded, it makes that tapping noise and loses power. Couple of possibilities - one is detonation, knocking or pinging, which will cause that telltale metallic knock/tap/or pinging noise when you load the engine. Some cases, you could get enough knocking to cause the ECM to pull timing to protect the engine - when that happens, there will be a very noticeable loss of power. A quick way to check for that is to run premium fuel once to see if helps with the pinging - as the most likely cause of this hot spots inside the combustion chamber (carbon deposits the most likely) causing the detonation. The higher octane has a higher resistance to knocking and detonation.

Another possibility is the VVTi system, in particular the OCV (oil control valve) and its associated oil filter, are plugged up - causing the engine timing to be thrown off. If the filter is clogged with debris, sludge, etc. - it will reduce the available oil and oil pressure made to the oil control valve. Without that oil and pressure, the valve cannot move the VVTi actuator correctly, throwing the timing off. Normally, all this will be caught and flagged by the CEL (check engine lamp), but in more gradual failure cases, may not trigger the failure threshold. There is a write up on this forum to remove the OCV filter and inspect it for debris. If the filter is clean, then the oil control valve and the rest of the VVTi system. Sometimes switching to a different motor oil or shortening the oil change interval can help.

OK, update: I removed, cleaned and reinstalled the small filter located on the front of the block next to the alternator which, fortunately, I didn't have to remove! The filter was actually pretty clean, and cleaning it up didn't seem to resolve the tapping problem. So now I ask, what's the next item to check? Are there any other filter devices? What about the OCV itself? I'm no mechanic, so I'm at a loss. However, being that the car is out of warranty, I'd rather try to fix it myself. Any help is appreciated!

Belay that! Found the write-up and associated pics. Hope this takes care of the problem. Thanks, Fishexpo!

 

Can you please tell me where to find the OCV filter? They pack so much stuff under the hood these days! Thanks!

Does the tapping noise increase in tempo and/or intensity as you raise the RPMs? Is there a point where the tapping noise is less noticeable - ie, when the engine is cold/hot, etc.? Does it tap excessively at idle speeds (no throttle input)?

Sounds like whenever the engine is heavily loaded, it makes that tapping noise and loses power. Couple of possibilities - one is detonation, knocking or pinging, which will cause that telltale metallic knock/tap/or pinging noise when you load the engine. Some cases, you could get enough knocking to cause the ECM to pull timing to protect the engine - when that happens, there will be a very noticeable loss of power. A quick way to check for that is to run premium fuel once to see if helps with the pinging - as the most likely cause of this hot spots inside the combustion chamber (carbon deposits the most likely) causing the detonation. The higher octane has a higher resistance to knocking and detonation.

Another possibility is the VVTi system, in particular the OCV (oil control valve) and its associated oil filter, are plugged up - causing the engine timing to be thrown off. If the filter is clogged with debris, sludge, etc. - it will reduce the available oil and oil pressure made to the oil control valve. Without that oil and pressure, the valve cannot move the VVTi actuator correctly, throwing the timing off. Normally, all this will be caught and flagged by the CEL (check engine lamp), but in more gradual failure cases, may not trigger the failure threshold. There is a write up on this forum to remove the OCV filter and inspect it for debris. If the filter is clean, then the oil control valve and the rest of the VVTi system. Sometimes switching to a different motor oil or shortening the oil change interval can help.

Did you try running a tank of premium fuel through it, to see if the tapping is better/worse/same? Have you had a chance to pull the spark plugs and see what they look like, gauge their condition? Cleaned the MAF sensor? Cleaned the throttlebody?

Since the OCV filter is clean, unlikely the OCV is bad, though it is a still a possibility. I'd run down other possibilities before I tackle the OCV - save that toward the end of the diagnosis.

Sounds more like detonation / pinging than anything else. Could also have some piston slap - which is likely, if the car doesn't see a lot of highway operation. The 1ZZ-FE uses a taper-squish combustion chamber, so clearances between the top of the piston and the valve "pocket" are pretty tight. Excessive carbon deposits can cause much of the symptoms that you are experiencing. Depending on the extent of the deposits - could be tackled with some premium fuel, bottle of good fuel injector cleaner, and a strong romp on the highway to clear out those deposits. Or it could require a de-carbonizing service to get that carbon out.

OK, Fish- filled the tank today with premiun fuel and a bottle of injector cleaner. Going to take her out Saturday on the interstate and get on it a bit! With regard to the MAF sensor and throttlebody, do you have guidelines or instructions for inspection and cleaning? Your continued help and advice is most appreciated!

Here is a link that might help out - https://www.corolland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22499-diy-info-some-uncommon-maintenance-items/page__p__166685__hl__ocv+filter__fromsearch__1#entry166685

As for guidelines on the MAF cleaning and throttlebody cleaning - your model year was still using the cable actuated throttlebody, so no electrical worries with a DBW system, but you should still disconnect the battery for safety reasons and to reset the ECM. Can clean it while the throttlebody is still attached the intake, though you should take it off if it is excessively dirty. When cleaning the MAF and IAT sensor, make sure that you are very careful of the sensing wire. If the wire is excessively dirty, just spray the appropriate solvent, let it work into the gum/varnish/deposit - repeat until it clean. Don't have to soak anything, just spray, let it evaporate on its own, hit it again. Make sure the MAF is dry before installing it - note that the car might run "off" initially, but will straighten itself out once it relearns some running parameters. Also double check the PCV in the valvecover - make sure it is in good shape, if in doubt - replace it.

Well as it turned out Fish, the tapping I was hearing was not due to a valve problem, or carbon deposits. After filling the tank with premium fuel and adding some injector cleaner, I took the car up on the interstate to give it a go. The tapping got louder, and after about 5 miles, I heard a massive clunk, and then stalled. It seems that the noise I was hearing was a partially-engaged / stuck starter solenoid drive gear, which seized and blew the solenoid assembly right off! The car now sits at my local repair shop, awaiting evaluation this morning (following a pretty pricey tow!). Hopefully, a new starter assembly will fix the problem (I just pray that no other components suffered any damage!). I talked to a few people who said they have never heard of this happening. Are you familiar with any type of history with this problem?

Wow! That is not what I expected at all. I've heard of the start bendix getting stuck when you first start the car (slight grinding noise), but not stuck to the level where it would show up in normal driving.

Usually, when that sticks, you get a metallic screeching noise - so you know you have an issue. Never heard of it manifesting as a tapping noise - that is quite unusual for any car, especially this age and mileage. Older cars are a different story, but they would have very clear signs that the starter was not disengaging. Be interested in seeing what they find and what they think is the cause of the noise. Hopefully, the damage was restricted to the starter assembly itself. They should double check that the flexplate teeth look OK.

Wow is right!

Man, this just keeps getting better! As I broke down on a Saturday afternoon, the shop my car got towed to wasn't able to look at it until yesterday (they were naturally busy on Monday with previously booked appointments), and when I looked at it, I just looked under the hood and saw the "dangling solenoid" (wasn't too comfortable with the idea of crawling under the car on the side of the interstate with traffic flying by at 80mph!). Anyhow, the mechanic called me yesterday and informed me that the solenoid came off as a result of the piston rod that punched a hole through the block. The moral of the story?- I guess I should have listened to my wife who kept telling me to bring it to the shop in the first place! I am however, baffled at the fact that the car only has 67K miles, and THIS kind of thing happened.The car has always seen regular maintenance, and has never been abused.

Wow! To blow the rod out of the engine takes a set of circumstances to happen concurrently. Possible that the noise was rod knock that you heard before, but usually have to have something catastrophic happen to the engine before that can even begin to start. You'll know you have rod knock, as the noise is not very subtle, especially if the car is ready to throw a rod.

Though it could be from the bendix completely jamming the flexplate, snap the chain, and some mix of crankshaft and valvetrain revolution to cause the piston to crank into the still open valves. Though that is more likely to bend the valves than blow out a rod.

You can have a rod thrown suddenly, even on a well maintained and low mileage car - I can't even begin to tell you the odds of that happening, but it can happen. This point, it is either new engine or swap with another 9th gen Corolla engine. A quick teardown of the old engine will reveal the true cause of the failure. Assuming no excessive carbon build up in the combustion chambers, all service done correctly and on time, and no other issues with the car (loss of coolant, overheating, ran low of oil, wrong fluids, etc.) - then it will be some sort of metal fatigue - either in the rod itself, defective bearing, or a defect in the bolts holding the rod.

friendly_jacek

Like fish said above, the "taping noise" was likely a rod knock. This shows the limitations of internet forum car diagnostics. But, this doesn't matter. Rod knock is a death warrant for engine anyway. Actually this is not the first time I've heard about this happening in this generation at 60-70k miles. Sadly, the 1ZZ-FE engine is not as well built as its predecessors. It's supposed to be very light-weight and fuel efficient and there are some trade offs.

Just curious, did the engine consume any oil? What oil/filter did you use and what intervals?



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