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1Zz-Fe Engine Harness, Engine Swap Questions



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markd89

Hi All,

I'm contemplating using the 1ZZ-FE engine in an engine swap to an older VW. There is an adapter made by Kennedy to connect to the transmission and I can handle the engine mounts. The wiring is always the trickiest part on a project like this.

Here's some questions:

If I get all harness inside the engine compartment + the ECU is that all I should need or do I need other parts within the car?

Any suggestions on where to get diagrams etc. on what wires I will need to hook up to where to get the engine running?

Thanks!

Mark

Depends on which 1ZZ-FE engine from which car / generation that you want to pull this from. There are fuse panels inside the engine bay and under the dash as well, that you will need to make this swap work. Otherwise, you'll be staring at a check engine light and other warning lamps for components that you don't have or cannot wire to the VW. Another option is to wiring the engine to a standalone EMS system - bypassing the OEM wiring and ECM - that way you only deal with components that relate to the drivetrain instead of trying to trace and weed out wiring that run to say, the door logic or engine immobilizer on the donor car.

If you plan on using the OEM wiring, best to get the whole donor car if possible. If that is not doable, a half-cut will be preferable - if anything, you'll see how the wiring is routed and can eliminate, remove sections that you do not need. To start off with engine, transaxle, ecm, and strands of wiring from the engine bay - even with the factory electrical service manual in hand, is a pretty convoluted process trying to match up the wiring to where you need it, and almost invariably, some important fuse block or junction will be missing.

markd89

Depends on which 1ZZ-FE engine from which car / generation that you want to pull this from. There are fuse panels inside the engine bay and under the dash as well, that you will need to make this swap work. Otherwise, you'll be staring at a check engine light and other warning lamps for components that you don't have or cannot wire to the VW. Another option is to wiring the engine to a standalone EMS system - bypassing the OEM wiring and ECM - that way you only deal with components that relate to the drivetrain instead of trying to trace and weed out wiring that run to say, the door logic or engine immobilizer on the donor car.

 

If you plan on using the OEM wiring, best to get the whole donor car if possible. If that is not doable, a half-cut will be preferable - if anything, you'll see how the wiring is routed and can eliminate, remove sections that you do not need. To start off with engine, transaxle, ecm, and strands of wiring from the engine bay - even with the factory electrical service manual in hand, is a pretty convoluted process trying to match up the wiring to where you need it, and almost invariably, some important fuse block or junction will be missing.

Hi Fishexpo,

Thanks for your reply.

I have choice in the year. I'm looking at junkyard engines as they seem to be plentiful and inexpensive ($1K). The year does not seem to effect the pricing much, so I figure I should probably get one as new as possible (maybe 2007) to get the newest tech and lowest miles. There's several available with 10-50K miles which should leave me with plenty of life left. My reading told me that the later engines are more fuel efficient as well. Due to gearing, I'll be turning 3700 rpm at highway speed. Do you think I should be looking at an earlier 1ZZ instead?

I'm trying to make a California smog-legal conversion so I need to use the stock ECU. It looks like I can buy that as well as the harness from the junkyard too. I'd want to get everything from the same car, rather than take my chances with an ebay harness which maybe won't match up.

I found someone online who says he can take a harness, simplify it, label it and send it back to me for the conversion. I don't know the cost on this yet. I'm not a complete dummy in reading the wire colors, so if the 1ZZ is relatively simple, I may just try to figure it out myself. From your reply, it sounds like this is not the case.

I will see about getting a half-cut or complete car too. I'm thinking the junkyards probably won't want to do that as they make more from the pieces. If not, I'll need to give them a list of the bits I want and pay them for each.

I appreciate your help and any more ideas!

Mark

At that engine speed, you are better served going after the 2003+ model years. The earlier 1ZZ-FE were optimized for lower RPMs, my 2002 turns around 2K at highway speeds. The 9th generation Corollas (2003-2008) turn over about 3000-3500 at the same speeds.

The 2005+ 1ZZ-FE also used DBW throttlebodies and AFR sensors instead of conventional O2 sensors. Might make it trickier to wire, than the previous ones, but if you can get them for about the same price, probably with the extra headaches in wiring to get a newer engine. Some people don't care for the response of the DBW throttlebody, so that might be something to think about for this project.

There are number of shops out there that could setup a wiring harness for you, one in particular that specializes in Toyotas goes by the name Dr. Tweak, has a shop in GA. You can find more info on his site - http://www.tweakdperformance.com/ He is also a member on this forum as well, but probably easier to ping on him from his site.

markd89

At that engine speed, you are better served going after the 2003+ model years. The earlier 1ZZ-FE were optimized for lower RPMs, my 2002 turns around 2K at highway speeds. The 9th generation Corollas (2003-2008) turn over about 3000-3500 at the same speeds.

 

The 2005+ 1ZZ-FE also used DBW throttlebodies and AFR sensors instead of conventional O2 sensors. Might make it trickier to wire, than the previous ones, but if you can get them for about the same price, probably with the extra headaches in wiring to get a newer engine. Some people don't care for the response of the DBW throttlebody, so that might be something to think about for this project.

There are number of shops out there that could setup a wiring harness for you, one in particular that specializes in Toyotas goes by the name Dr. Tweak, has a shop in GA. You can find more info on his site - http://www.tweakdperformance.com/ He is also a member on this forum as well, but probably easier to ping on him from his site.

Thanks again. That's very helpful. I'll steer towards the 2003+ 1ZZ-FE's.

Other things equal, I'd prefer not to get DBW. It'd be nice to use a cable like on the VW. I'd imagine it's not trivial to swap an earlier throttle body onto a DBW engine as the computer is probably looking at throttle position too. I did find Dr. Tweak and he says he can make me a custom harness, so that's a big relief! I'll ask him about DBW too.

Did the 2005+ DBW and AFR changes result in any improved performance or economy?

Thanks,

Mark

My understanding was that DBW was implemented more for traction control than performance, though it does have a larger inner diameter than the standard cable throttle body and the ECM is reprogrammed to maximize fuel efficiency. The ECM will cut the throttle when it sees wheelspin - gets annoying at times, plus the lag doesn't help matters. There are times where you can "feel" the car fighting you, ie. when coasting, the throttle is still open to help with pumping losses, but give the impression that the car does not want to slow down.

The AFR sensor though has a much higher sensitivity and wider sensing range than the traditional O2 sensor, so that would have a marked influence on fuel economy. The conventional O2 sensor only senses very close to the stoichiometric ratio, anything above is lean, anything below is rich. The AFR sensor acts like a wideband O2 sensor, able to measure extremely lean and rich conditions, as well as stoichiometric. This ability to read very lean helps the ECM run optimal air/fuel/timing maps for conditions where you have low loads and can run a leaner than normal mix.

As for the end result - having better performance and/or economy from these changes - seems to be a mixed bag. Some saw better performance/economy, others did not. What was sure, was the amount of additional headaches that were added to the operation/maintenance of the vehicle from these additions. You can run a cable throttlebody in place of the DBW setup - as many have done this when they swapped out a dying 8th gen 1ZZ-FE for the newer 1ZZ-FE setup. Car still will operate, but the ECM will likely run in a degraded more, as it cannot see the DBW unit. Not really an issue, as most ECMs have multiple failsafes for sensors that "disappear" - I personally would not shy away from a 2005+ engine if it was the right price.

TomDee

when i was on original toy mods years ago twas my understanding if going newer engine / trans into older chassis you could easily get it refereed in no issues So our 1 g gte engines into Ma7 supras are floating round cali quite a bit legal

markd89

Tom and Fishexpo,

Thanks, I appreciate your help!

Mark

markd89

I came up with a couple more questions..

I'm thinking again about DBW. Does the Corolla have a switch to turn-off traction control?

If I can avoid installing a vehicle speed sensor, I'd like to do that...

Also, I see that a return-less in-tank fuel pump is used. I suppose I could replicate this by installing an in-pump tank in the VW, but it would be easier to workaround the issue with an external pump and regulator. Any thoughts here? What fuel pressure is needed?

Thanks,

Mark

The ones with TRAC function, there is a traction control button that you hold in to turn off the system temporarily. No easy way in getting around the VSS, the Toyota ECM will immediately through a CEL. Though if you go with a standalone ECM, then it doesn't matter.

There are others that run a return style fuel system on the 1ZZ-FE. Most are for extreme turbocharged projects where even an upgraded fuel pump and regulator will be the fuel bottle neck. Fuel pressure at the regulator is typically between 44-50PSI. The trick here, is that the 1ZZ-FE is a "demand" type fuel system, meaning that the system will only pump gas as needed by the engine. Going with a return style fuel system and all the disconnects that you likely need to make will cause the ECM to just pass out.

Choices are to just tape over the constantly illuminated CEL or run a standalone ECM.

markd89

The ones with TRAC function, there is a traction control button that you hold in to turn off the system temporarily. No easy way in getting around the VSS, the Toyota ECM will immediately through a CEL. Though if you go with a standalone ECM, then it doesn't matter.

 

There are others that run a return style fuel system on the 1ZZ-FE. Most are for extreme turbocharged projects where even an upgraded fuel pump and regulator will be the fuel bottle neck. Fuel pressure at the regulator is typically between 44-50PSI. The trick here, is that the 1ZZ-FE is a "demand" type fuel system, meaning that the system will only pump gas as needed by the engine. Going with a return style fuel system and all the disconnects that you likely need to make will cause the ECM to just pass out.

Choices are to just tape over the constantly illuminated CEL or run a standalone ECM.

Thanks Fishexpo. I have to keep the stock ECU and no CELs to comply with California smog. It sounds like the easiest solution is that I should grab the fuel tank from the Corolla and find a way to incorporate the in-tank pump into the VW tank. Do all Corollas have a VSS or just the DBW ones?

Thanks,

Mark

On the VSS, all Corollas have it. As for the plumbing, shouldn't be too bad to setup on the VW - basically it is just a fuel line running to the injector log, connections are just for electrical power, fuel pump and sending unit signals.

The Corolla's setup is basically all self-contained: fuel pump, regulator, fuel filter, pickup, float, etc. are all in one "can". Might be able to retrofit that into the existing VW tank, worse comes to worse - can run an aftermarket fuel cell. As those can be adapted to almost any use, many can be bought in different form factors, designs as well.

Tricky part would be the EVAP system. As the connections are all made to the gas tank itself and a major headache for anyone trying to mod this setup. Have seen it done to an aftermarket fuel cell, though I'm not sure how Cali emissions/vehicle registrations will handle it. I'd double check before you get too far along on this project.

Definitely be interesting to see how it turns out - be the first 1ZZ-FE Toyota powered VW that I've heard of. Actually not an unheard of swap - older 1970's VW vans were running Toyota 1.8L 3TC engines due to the VW engine reliability/tuning issues at that time.

markd89

On the VSS, all Corollas have it. As for the plumbing, shouldn't be too bad to setup on the VW - basically it is just a fuel line running to the injector log, connections are just for electrical power, fuel pump and sending unit signals.

 

The Corolla's setup is basically all self-contained: fuel pump, regulator, fuel filter, pickup, float, etc. are all in one "can". Might be able to retrofit that into the existing VW tank, worse comes to worse - can run an aftermarket fuel cell. As those can be adapted to almost any use, many can be bought in different form factors, designs as well.

Tricky part would be the EVAP system. As the connections are all made to the gas tank itself and a major headache for anyone trying to mod this setup. Have seen it done to an aftermarket fuel cell, though I'm not sure how Cali emissions/vehicle registrations will handle it. I'd double check before you get too far along on this project.

Definitely be interesting to see how it turns out - be the first 1ZZ-FE Toyota powered VW that I've heard of. Actually not an unheard of swap - older 1970's VW vans were running Toyota 1.8L 3TC engines due to the VW engine reliability/tuning issues at that time.

Thanks Fishexpo,

I am thinking that just using the Toyota pump in the VW tank is the easiest way to go. The VW tank is deeper than the Toyota one, but I think I can probably add a tube to extend the suction end down to the bottom of the tank.

I had not thought of the EVAP system and had to go read-up on it. The VW has a rudimentary one - carbon can only. From what I read the OBD2 computer checks the pressure in the tank very precisely. This may be an issue. One nice thing is that the VW tank is at most a couple of feet away from the engine. I'll want to look into this more. I'm also going to try to talk to the smog referee and see what they expect to see. It may be that I'm better off with an older engine with simpler systems :-(

I am drawn to the 1ZZ-FE because...

It is a modern, high compression, efficient engine. I want decent MPGs.

It has usable torque across the RPM curve.

It can be happy at 4000 rpms sustained.

I expect it to last 200,000+ miles.

Decent jJunkyard engines are $1K.

Power will be greater than the VW engine it replaces.

If I've missed another alternative, please let me know. I want to work out all the details and (most of the) gotchas right now in planning so there's fewer $urprises and hassles later...

Thanks again,

Mark

Depending on the mileage and power you are expecting, some other (older) Toyota engines to look at are:

1.6L 4A-FE, 1990-1997 Toyota Corolla/Prism, 102-105 HP/101 ft.lbs TQ

1.8L 7A-FE, 1993-1997 Toyota Corolla/Prism and 1994-1999 Celica ST, 105-115 HP / 105-117 ft.lbs TQ

1.6L 4A-GE, 1988-1991 Toyota Corolla GT-S/Prism GSi, 112-135 HP / 97-105 ft.lb TQ

2.0L 3S-GE, 1986-1997 Toyota MR2 and Toyota Celica, 135-165 HP / 137-141 Ft.lbs TQ

2.2L 5S-FE, 1990-1997 Toyota Celica GT and 1993-2001 Toyota Camry, 130-136HP / 145-150 ft.lbs TQ

Arguably, the A-series of engines, are considered by many to be some of the longest lasting engines that Toyota made - indeed, they were Toyota's longest running series of engines - fuel efficient E-heads and the easily modified/higher performance G-heads.

The S-series of engines are also considered in the same league as the A-series. Where the A-series lacked low end power, the S-series made up with larger displacement.

The 1ZZ-FE doesn't have the same "mystic" as these engines, but it is considerably more compact, lighter, has higher performance, and more efficient in comparison. Basically taking the best the older engines have to offer, and improve upon it with new tech. But these older engines have a much simpler EVAP system (pre-1997 engines) and return type fuel systems. Could make a sway that is exceptionally difficult to one that is quite doable. Age of these engines will also make the much less expensive, though quite likely to have abit more mileage than a 1ZZ-FE. These older engines still have good parts support, in both OEM and aftermarket - so getting mega-mileage out of them is not a problem, as long as you stay on top of maintenance.

ramon rod

can i swap out a 2001 toyota corolla vvti engine and put it in my 1998 toyota corolla le car

Depends on how you swap the engines.

As for a direct swap - it will "work", but the sensors (ie, camshaft position sensor) and some electricals (individual coil on plug igniters instead of the twin coil packs on the other ) will be slightly different, as you are swapping a VVT-i variant in place of a non-VVT-i. The actually short block (bottom end of the engine) are identical between the two.

You can try and swap the 2001 ECM and make mods to the wiring harness - then you could effectively have a functional VVT-i engine in an earlier 8th gen Corolla. You could also opt to disable the VVT-i (not connect it) - keep the existing ECM, still make a slight change to the wiring - then it will effectively act like the original 1998 engine.

Everything really depends on why you are swapping engines in the first place, how much money and time you want to tie into this swap, etc.

pepodiaz

hi

i need help

Torque and secuency toyoya corolla 2005 motor 1.8

FA41 ZZE130L-DEPDKA

MAIN BLOCK

Which torque numbers are you specifically looking for? There is a lot of stuff hanging off the short block - need to narrow it down for us. If you need "all" of them - be much faster/cost effective to pickup a Chilton or Haynes repair manual for your reference.