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By kimandfil, November 20, 2004



Hello -

I recently bought a used '99 Corolla with 18K miles (I couldn't believe the miles either, but I've done some background checking on the car and I think thats the true mileage). Anyway, my driveway has a slight slope to it (approx 15-20 deg) and when I parked it I left it in 1st gear. About 20 minutes later I noticed that the car had slipped to the end of the driveway.

After pulling back up in the driveway, I stood outside the car and watched and sure enough, about every 45 seconds the car will slip about 2-3 inches. I was shocked. Every other manual trans car I've had I could park it in 1st gear and it would hold fine. My other manual trans cars were rear wheel drive. Don't know if that makes a difference.

Is this typical ? Has anyone else noticed this kind of thing ? Obviously I have started using the parking brake. I realize that using the parking brake is good practice with a manual trans, but I'm concerned that something is terribly wrong with the trans, the clutch, the engine, or all three.

The clutch doesn't appear to be slipping. When the car slips backward I can see the drive belt on the engine turning. Do I have a major problem ? or does the engine just not have enough compression to hold the weight of the car ?

I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks !

If the belt is turning while the car is slipping back - then your clutch is holding. 15-20 degrees is pretty steep. I usually put on the parking brake on anything but level ground. Chances are everything is still OK - a car should hold in 1st - but some will not hold on a hill. Compression is pretty strong for this engine - but nothing like some of the six or eight cylinder engines.

I notice that my Honda will not hold on a hill - have to set the brake. I've seen people flat tow a smaller car and accidentally left it in gear. The tow vehicle pulled it around for a while before they noticed - but no permanent damage was done.

It is possible that the car has bad rings or worn cylinder walls. I would get a leakdown test and see something is amiss. Meantime - I'd set the brake.

Good Luck.

Thanks fishexpo101 !

I appreciate your comments. That was my first thought, that maybe the cylinders aren't sealed like they should. Either a bad gasket ? or bad rings ?

I would like to think that with only 18K miles, the rings and cylinder walls are OK. Obviously there is not a perfect seal around the piston rings. ****uming the gaskets are OK, it would be interesting to see if the car still slips if I could perfectly plug up the PCV valve hose to eliminate any opening for air even if some did slip past the rings. Not sure I could create a perfect seal anyway.

I've talked with a few mechanics and they all said not to worry about it and just start using the parking brake.

Thanks again for your help !

Put the car in REVERSE and apply the parking brake. Many vehicles will slowly creep in a steeply parked situation. Reverse is a lower gear ratio and has more frictional holding power but always use the emergency/parking brake to park. Local vandals think its funny to go thru Wallyworld pushing cars into the lanes......

I can't believe that you would think that a car engine will simply hold back using compression effect (only) for hours.... you have been really lucky that you have any cars left at all. A manual transmission cannot hold any car back much less yours.... Use a hand brake and I would recommend that you buy wheel chocks for the street side wheels so that if the brake doesn't hold, the chocks will.... good luck.... and, use reverse as others have suggested. Jim

friendly_jacek

I will chime in that leaving cars in gears on hills is a no no. Even diesel cars with higher compression can roll and even pushstart the engine with catastrophic results (remember, old-style diesels are purely mechanical engines with no electric ignition). This is exactly why you have to turn the steering wheeel to have the front wheells againt the curb on hills.

It is convienient to do it on level surface though.

I've been down this road before. Some vehicles will hold. My Rx-7, Volkswagen and 74' Toyota Corona all held their own on pretty steep hills. The manual trans. Corolla DEFINITELY will not. I took this question to a Toyota mechanic a few years ago and, because he hadn't heard the complaint before. He tested my '98 and was a bit surprised by the roll. We tested a brand new Corolla and an older one (about a 95?) that was in the shop at the time. Same thing for all. Use your parking brake or you might have a long walk back to your Corolla.

Cheers,

Regular Joe

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm now into the habit of using the parking brake.

After reading your comments, I'm pretty amazed that I never had an issue before. Like I said, I've had manual trans cars in the past and all of them could hold on a reasonable hill. Obviously on a steep hill I would use the parking brake.

My first thoughts were that I had an engine/trans problem. Glad to hear that it's not unusual for a little slipping to happen.

Thanks again, I appreciate your help !

Guest Toyota-san

We once had a '62 International pickup, three on a tree that would creep down the driveway. It had no e-brake so we just put a brick under the wheel.

By contrast, Dad's '78 Dodge would hold on the driveway with a load of sand or gravel in the back no problem. Of course, the motor was in lot better shape.

I agree with others though, use the ebrake and always place shifter in 1st gear or reverse.

Guest djwolford

Put the car in REVERSE

Yes sir.

 

 

I had not experienced this so appreciate the discussion. Not all that surprising when you think about it, since you can let out the clutch to decelerate and the car obviously keeps rolling, even in 1st.

I always use parking brake in any case, and turn wheels out when parking on an uphill curb (and turn them in toward the curb on the downhill). On really steep hills I let the tires catch on the curb before adding the clutch and the e-brake to clinch the deal. I had an old car with an unreliable parking brake and I would curb the tires so at least if it went, it would roll in a circle!

By the way, new cars have a circuit breaker button under the clutch that has to be completely depressed before ignition is possible. No more rolling and popping the clutch to start the engine, or using the battery to pull a stalled car off railroad tracks.

I once went a couple of weeks with a bad battery and no money, getting started by rolling and popping the clutch! Those were the days, and we didn't have enough sense to know we should be unhappy. default_laugh

Ten years later....... my starter died and yes you can.

I drove my car for three days pushing it jumping back in and using second gear to start it.

Sure glad it is a manual. just can't move it with the starter in gear.

Another 10 days more to say that's right. The clutch pedal lockout switch disables the starter only.

Reverse gear ratio is only very slightly lower than 1st gear, at 3.250:1 compared to 3.166:1.

You want to park it in reverse gear only if on an ascending slope (rolls backward)... When parking on a descending slope (rolls forward), you want to have it in 1st gear. The engine produces less compression if it's rotating backwards because of the valves' operating sequence in relation to piston movement. It is also adviseable to have the engine's crankshaft and valvetrain rotating and reciprocating in its natural intended direction.

Hey man, better late than never right

Now I see even more clearly that if the "ignition" is disabled unless the clutch was fully depressed, the car would die every time you tried to drive it!

Exhaust Power Compression Intake. ..

It's hard for me to visualize each stroke, not only in reverse order but also in the opposite direction.

The Exhaust stroke would intake air through the open exhaust valve . A reverse power (up) stroke would compress that air with both sets of valves closed ,

Then back down for the decompression stroke. And up to blow air out of the intake valves. That doesn't sound too good for the engine.

Then I forgot about backwards

Valve Timing.

Park on any slope, whatever the degree of incline, and apply the parking brake = what everyone should do all the time. Call me crazy, but I apply the brake wherever I park and have an automatic trans.

Yeah, it's good to use the parking brake to have the rear brakes Assist in stabilizing the car on steep enough terrain for sure. It does appear to be its intended purpose.

I agree with corollamike, I always use the parking brake, even with automatic, even on flat ground



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