Toyota Sludge Recall

The policy was extended to cover the V-6 engine in the 2002 models, but only up to a certain production date (around April 02, I think but I am not certain of the date)

I don't know if I would go so far to say don't buy one of those models. I would just say if you are going to buy one, have the valve cover pulled to check for sludge, find out if it has already had a sludge-fix, check all maintenance records and make sure you get all the maintenance receipts so you can get the policy honored if the engine fails. I would also want to first verify with a dealership that the policy will cover you if you are not the original owner. I have seen varying accounts on whether or not it is just for the original owners.

After that, I would go with a synthetic oil or blend and get all oil changes between 3,000 and 5,000 miles.

I don't see how you get sludge problem in the first place if you change your oil every 3K with a good quality oil and filter. If you listen to Toyota and change it every 7,500K and filter every other time, you will get sludge, that's common sense.

LOL

Looks like Toyota lacked common sense when they wrote their manual.

Ya it seems very strange that they wouldn't be conservative/safe in making the oil change interval. I mean why increase the interval to 5000+ when most people would expect to change every 3000 any way....so yes its a nice suprise...but not a selling point really.

Personally I will just try to get mine changed every 4000 or so.

Does anyone know what the exact statistic was? I remember reading that the toal number of complaints and documented occurances of sludge was under 0.1%... maybe even less that 0.01% that is why and official recall was never enforced by the government. The combined years and models represent millions of models and only a few thousand cases of sludge have occured.

This will not cost Toyota a significant amount of money...it's good ot see that at least they are finally doing the right thing. I think because of the relatively low number of complaints.... they were hesitant ot admit there was an issue wihtout performing and thurough study and analysis of the problem.

I still contend this isn't a direct diesign flaw...but a design "weakness" rather that under the right circumstances and conditions.... can result in the problem occuring.

To my knowledge, there never was anything that documented the number of cases. When the sludge policy was announced in 2002, Toyota said at that time that they received somewhere around 3,000 "complaints" of sludge. Is it possible that someone inappropriately translated this number into an occurence rate?

To my knowledge, there never was anything that documented the number of cases. When the sludge policy was announced in 2002, Toyota said at that time that they received somewhere around 3,000 "complaints" of sludge. Is it possible that someone inappropriately translated this number into an occurence rate?

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302

That number was in 2002 before Toyota even sent out the 3.3 million (wow!) letters letting people know about the problem. I can't find any updates on the numbers.

Excerpt from the link posted by DB1 (aka Whozitz on Cartrackers), shows that the 3000 complaints were referenced in the article, AND that 3.3MM letters were sent out a week BEFORE the article appeared:

"In a letter sent last week to more than 3.3 million owners of vehicles equipped with the two engines, Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. says it will pay repair costs for sludge damage in cases where customers can provide proof of "reasonable efforts" to maintain the vehicle.

The special policy adjustment, requiring proof of only one oil change in a year, is good for one year. At the same time, the U.S. sales arm refused to veer from its position that negligent owners, not the product, are the source of the problem."

Another interesting development re sludge as illustrated by the following editorials---complete text can be accessed at www.autosafety.org:

Audi, Chrysler, Toyota, VW Oil Sludge Problems

News

Monitors Could Combat Oil Sludge - 9/6/04

Chrysler Oil Sludge

CAS Requests Extended Warranty on 1998-2002 Chrysler 2.7L Engines - 8/26/04

CAS Letter to Dieter Zetsche, President and CEO of Daimler Chrysler - 8/26/04

Chrysler Urged to Act on Engine Complaints - 8/28/04

Consumer Advocacy Group Says Chrysler V-6 Has Sludge Problems - 8/30/04

VW-Audi Oil Sludge

Volkswagen Extends Engine Warranties - 8/14/04

Oil Sludge Woes Plague VW - 8/30/04

Volkswagen Owner Letter

Audi Owner Letter

So it appears that sludge is no stranger to many other makes of automobiles!!

Good sludge article from Automotive News:

Monitors Could Combat Oil Sludge

Issue heats up at VW, Chrysler

By Richard Truett

Automotive News / September 06, 2004

DETROIT -- An inexpensive device that checks the condition of engine oil and warns the driver when it's time for an oil change could help Volkswagen of America Inc. and the Chrysler group avoid future troubles with oil sludge.

Both companies have come under pressure after reports were published of engine failures caused by sludge buildup.

General Motors says about 95 percent of its 2005 models will come with an oil life monitor. GM says the device - a $10 sensor in the engine that measures the number of times the pistons fire and the temperature of the oil - has helped drivers avoid sludge problems.

Sludge clogs oil passageways in the cylinder block. These passageways, which are about the circumference of pipe cleaners, are like arteries.

Once the passages are clogged, moving parts such as valves, pistons and camshafts are starved of oil. They can seize, causing engine-destroying failures.

Similar sensors

Toyota and Chrysler offer oil sensors on a few of their most expensive vehicles, such as the Toyota Sienna minivan and the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Chrysler spokesman Sam Locricchio said the automaker is considering offering oil life monitors on more nameplates.

Last month the Center for Auto Safety asked Chrysler to extend the engine warranty to 10 years and unlimited mileage on 2.7-liter V-6s used in a variety of vehicles. The center said there have been several cases in which sludge-filled engines seized in traffic.

VW last month sent a letter to 426,000 passat and Audi A4 owners warning them of sludge problems with 1.8-liter turbocharged engines. VW is extending warranties from five years to eight years and is requiring dealerships to use synthetic motor oil and a larger oil filter.

VW does not offer an oil life monitor on vehicles and says it is not considering them.

Chrysler has evaluated about 400 warranty claims of sludge-filled 2.7-liter V-6 engines used in a variety of vehicles.

VW would not disclose how many complaints it has received, but a source at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the agency has had 12 to 15 complaints.

Bob Orlee, a GM engine engineer who specializes in oil issues, said GM installed the monitors because many consumers did not read their owner manuals to learn when they should change their oil.

He also said some consumers didn't know that severe driving areas, such as those with high heat and heavy traffic, required them to change their oil more frequently.

He said synthetic oil likely won't prevent sludge buildup.

Confusion abounded

"We realized in research back then when we talked to customers that they had no idea if they were severe or moderate drivers," he said. "Even with all those words we put in owners' manuals it was so difficult to describe to people when they should do an oil change. The oil life monitor simplified the maintenance procedure."

GM began using oil life monitors in the 1980s.

Chrysler engineers say improper maintenance is the likely reason for sludge buildup in some vehicles. About 70 percent of the vehicles with sludge-filled engines were sold to rental car fleets before consumers bought them as used vehicles, Locricchio said.

"The second or third owner can change oil on time, but if the first owner didn't, the engine can be susceptible to sludge," he said.

VW recommends oil changes at 5,000 miles or six months, or more frequently when climate or driving conditions are extreme.

Chrysler says owners should change oil every 3,000 miles in city driving or every 7,500 miles in highway driving.

Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc., which wrestled with a sludge problem in 2002 and 2003, denied there were design flaws in some of its four- and six-cylinder engines and also pointed to consumers for the problem. But Toyota extended warranties, replacing engines for free and changing the oil breather system in valve covers.

Orlee, the GM engineer, said sludge always has been a problem for engines. But improvements to motor oil and engines have reduced problems.

Said Orlee: "Sludge has to do a lot with how you drive. classic sludge was related to low-speed operations, like in taxicabs. Some of the sludge out there now we believe may be a different form of sludge. Some of it happens only in hot climates."