Tires Always Screwy After Service...

Every time my tires are tampered with (ie change brakes, rotation, etc.) I always have to balance them again and again and also align them over and over. Does anybody else have this problem? I find this kinda wierd.

Also, is it normal to have a little vibration in the steering wheel going freeway speeds or is balancing precise enough to get rid of vibration at whatever speeds (45mph -160mph)?

What kind and size of wheels/tires do you have?

I've never had to rebalance a tire or realign the suspension after rotating them or working on the brakes. A tire will run a bit differently after you rotate them, but should quickly feel normal after a weeks worth of driving or less.

If you have to rebalance/realign after every tire/wheel removal - you have a serious problem. Could be as simple as the lugnuts coming loose (common with alloy wheels, after putting the wheels back on, you should recheck them after a 100-150 miles. Using the proper lugnuts and torque are also very important.

If these are the OEM wheels steel wheels with OEM sized tires - then you may have a suspension and/or steering related problem or the people doing the rebalancing/realigning are doing shoddy work.

Vibration at highway speeds are generally not normal - this shows a tire balance issue, hub problem, wheel bearing problem, steering issue, suspension issue, a bad tire, or a bent wheel. Hopefully you meant 45-60MPH, the only what a Corolla can hit 160MPH is to drive it off a cliff.

Every time my tires are tampered with (ie change brakes, rotation, etc.) I always have to balance them again and again and also align them over and over. Does anybody else have this problem? I find this kinda wierd.Also, is it normal to have a little vibration in the steering wheel going freeway speeds or is balancing precise enough to get rid of vibration at whatever speeds (45mph -160mph)?

I had no vibration at all with my rims/stock tires until I changed tires this past spring. It took me at least three tries at the local dealer here to get the right front balanced correctly. The final time seems to have worked as the manager made sure an actual mechanic did the job.

Hmm...mk

Fish, they are completely stock (basic cheap black steel) and I haven't lowered my susp at all.

So I guess there is something seriously wrong with my car then. Wierd that no mechanics <-plural have said anything about my car. If they have found something wrong, I would think that they would tell me so they can make more money. I have a couple more questions.

1) Do you have to change your alignment when you get a complete set of NEW tires?

2) My car is not aligned and it gets noticably worse when somebody is in the car with me, what does everybody think about that? My car drifts to the right a little bit when I'm driving but when somebody is sitting next to me, the car drifts even further to the right by what seems to be 2 fold. Does this have anything to do with my passenger rear strut being shot?

3) Has anybody ever changed the tire on the rim itself by deflating, taking off the tire, then putting the tire back on the other way (assuming symmetrical), and inflate it again? Can you even do this (ie are symmetrical treads still have a set postition to turn?) If so, how much did it cost? Do you have to balance them again? I am thinking about doing this because the shoulders on my tires are always the first to go bald and yet I still have alot of meat left on the middle of the tread and on the inside shoulder.

4) when rotors are warped and you want to fix them, is that process called "turning"? Like to turn rotors.

1) Do you have to change your alignment when you get a complete set of NEW tires?

If the alignment was fine before the new tires went on - then there is no reason to have it done afterwards. Many place "recommend" an alignment after getting new tires - most of the time it is to just squeeze more money out of you.

2) My car is not aligned and it gets noticably worse when somebody is in the car with me, what does everybody think about that? My car drifts to the right a little bit when I'm driving but when somebody is sitting next to me, the car drifts even further to the right by what seems to be 2 fold. Does this have anything to do with my passenger rear strut being shot?

I though you had to align the car over and over again? Any case, if the alignment changes due to an extra passenger or two - then you have a suspension related problem for sure, could be more than just the the strut, but having a blown strut is not helping things at all - not to mention very unsafe.

3) Has anybody ever changed the tire on the rim itself by deflating, taking off the tire, then putting the tire back on the other way (assuming symmetrical), and inflate it again? Can you even do this (ie are symmetrical treads still have a set postition to turn?) If so, how much did it cost? Do you have to balance them again? I am thinking about doing this because the shoulders on my tires are always the first to go bald and yet I still have alot of meat left on the middle of the tread and on the inside shoulder.

I know a few peope that have done that - turn a symetrical tire around to get more life out of it or to even out the wear. Not worth the trouble. Tires are cheap - best to fix the problem causing the tires to wear in that manner. Also, tires will have a "nap" to them from turning in one particular direction most of the time.

If you flip them around, the tire will wear excessively fast for a little while and introduce issues like poor fuel economy and handling issues, until the tire starts to wear down a bit. If any part fo the tire is worn down to the wear bars or close to it - scrap the tire. Just because there is still meat on the tire elsewhere, you will not have enough material on hte really worn section - ie, better chance to suffer a blow-out or have poor handling in the wet or low traction surfaces. Cost is pretty minimal - to unmount, remount, and balance - costs about $20/tire.

4) when rotors are warped and you want to fix them, is that process called "turning"? Like to turn rotors.

Correct - as long as the rotor is above the minimum wear thickness, you can turn down the rotors. Keep in mind that doing so will also make it that much easier to warp the rotors. Since the rotors have less mass and as such less heat capacity, you'll find that they will act differently. I usually get about two sets of pads on the rotor - on the third set, I replace both pads and rotors, I don't cut or turn them at all. OEM rotors only give you 2mm worth of wear (1mm per side) before you have to scrap them (new rotors are 22mm thick, scrap when they wear to 20mm thick). Used to be that you could turn down the rotra a few times before you ran into trouble, but they are too thin now (saves weight and cost). If the rotors are fairly new - then you might be able to get a single cut - hard to say for sure. Think of it this way - everytime they turn down a rotor, they generally remove a minimum of about 10 thousandths to 20 thousandths of an inch. Doesn't sound like much, but you can "feel" a warped rotors at 20 thousandths of an inch or about 0.05mm - to effectively get rid of that variation, you have to turn down the rotor at least to that variation - with only 1mm of meat to spare, doesn't leave too much for you. If the runout is way past 0.05mm - then the rotor is scrap.

Bikeman982

Every time my tires are tampered with (ie change brakes, rotation, etc.) I always have to balance them again and again and also align them over and over. Does anybody else have this problem? I find this kinda wierd.Also, is it normal to have a little vibration in the steering wheel going freeway speeds or is balancing precise enough to get rid of vibration at whatever speeds (45mph -160mph)?

Your steering should not have any vibration at freeway speeds.

I just experienced the hardest braking of my life down here in so.cal. Traffic was going along at 85mph and around a corner, traffic was stopped. I had broke into the new rotors and pads for about 500miles. I had to slow from 85 to 0 as fast as I could and as best I could without hitting the cars in front of me. So I braked just enough that I didn't lock them, pulled the hand brake a little and downshifted into 3rd gear for enging braking. You know that ghost sound you get when you brake with slotted and drilled rotors? Well after a certain pressure point, I don't think it was making that sound anymore default_laugh Just hard grinding so it seemed. They still do now but not in that particular instance. They appear to not be cracked. Anyhow, they're warped, had them installed 2 weeks ago and now they are warped. So my question, .05mm is enough to feel in the pedal and steering wheel (which i do feel), is it worth getting them turned? Will my braking performance just go out due to the warp?

Yup, just a little variation can be felt through the wheel and brake pedal as you are braking. Could also be the transfer layer on the rotor has eroded away unevenly - making it feel like the rotor is warped. Might try driving around for a few days and see if the pulsing goes away - if not, then you might have to either take them in to be turned assuming there is enough material on the rotor to safely turn (NOTE that some shops don't like turning drilled/slotted rotors - if they complain, find another shop, equipment is the same, just they have to cut it more carefully) or just get new replacement rotors.

Braking performance will suffer with warped brakes - a pad that is not making good contact with the rotor is not doing you any good.

Bikeman982

I just experienced the hardest braking of my life down here in so.cal. Traffic was going along at 85mph and around a corner, traffic was stopped. I had broke into the new rotors and pads for about 500miles. I had to slow from 85 to 0 as fast as I could and as best I could without hitting the cars in front of me. So I braked just enough that I didn't lock them, pulled the hand brake a little and downshifted into 3rd gear for enging braking. You know that ghost sound you get when you brake with slotted and drilled rotors? Well after a certain pressure point, I don't think it was making that sound anymore Just hard grinding so it seemed. They still do now but not in that particular instance. They appear to not be cracked. Anyhow, they're warped, had them installed 2 weeks ago and now they are warped. So my question, .05mm is enough to feel in the pedal and steering wheel (which i do feel), is it worth getting them turned? Will my braking performance just go out due to the warp?

The problem with braking that hard on the freeway is the car behind you. You may stop in time to avoid hitting someone, but watch out for the rear-end.

I would get the rotors turned down so that they are not warped, or else replaced. Don't settle for anything but the best when it comes to stopping the car and saving your life (or someone elses).

Ok so I changed my blown strut and the car was still drifting to the right a little. I got my balance checked and they all are zeroed out. I got a free alignment check and the mechanic told me I needed all 4 wheels aligned. Well, the problem got worst. The vibration in the steering wheel is noticably worst at highway speeds. My car still kinda drifts to the right but now the steering wheel isn't dead center. What the hell? I tell you man, something ALWAYS screws up when mechanics are screwing around with my tires. Never fails so of course this would come to no surprise to me.

Get to another mechanic - or if you have the paperwork with the alignment results - post those. The 8th gen Corolla has a very specific range that must be met - very sensitive to bad alignments and wheel balance.

Vibration in the steering wheel means you have a either a bad tire, bent wheel, or lugs on wrong (too tight or too loose). Could also be something wrong with the suspension, brakes, or steering components - but since it immediately got worse after an alignment - I'd got look into the wheel/tire components.

Bikeman982

Alignments are supposed to make the car track straighter, not worse.

I question the quality of the alignment you got.

Alignments are supposed to make the car track straighter, not worse. I question the quality of the alignment you got.

me too. But everytime i get an alignment, I get it from somebody else because something always screws up. My car is just a friken wierd case! I cannot get it down right. If i have good alignment then my wheel vibrates. If my wheel doesn't vibrate then my alignment is screwed up or both at the same time.

I'd double check the tire balance - best way to do them is with a road force system - one that presses the tire against a rolling drum to measure "real world" aspects of the tire and to measure forces generated in such a scenario. If the tires are as heavily worn as they are - the tech should have refused the alignment and tire balance - since even driving a few miles will change the settings.

For hard to balance, hard to align cars - have to make sure the tire and wheels are perfect (even wear, wheels true, no plugs, no retreads, check for water or mud in tire). They also have to make sure the suspension is on (no loose or worn components) and the hubs are withing in spec. If all gets the green light the specs are as follows in this image:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...ignmentspec.jpg

I'd double check the tire balance - best way to do them is with a road force system - one that presses the tire against a rolling drum to measure "real world" aspects of the tire and to measure forces generated in such a scenario. If the tires are as heavily worn as they are - the tech should have refused the alignment and tire balance - since even driving a few miles will change the settings.
For hard to balance, hard to align cars - have to make sure the tire and wheels are perfect (even wear, wheels true, no plugs, no retreads, check for water or mud in tire). They also have to make sure the suspension is on (no loose or worn components) and the hubs are withing in spec. If all gets the green light the specs are as follows in this image:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...ignmentspec.jpg

Is this alignment spec for a 98 corolla? I took my car back to Big-O Tires and the alignment and balance is all green. The manager then suggested that the next less expensive factor is a defective tire due to a radial pull. It sucks because I have to pay for it. It is not covered by the warranty per manager's explanation eventhough I got the tires from the same place. Hmmm. I've had these tires for a while, the drift isn't too too bad but bad enough that when driving off the freeway, I must have a hand on the wheel at all times or else I'll get into an accident.

sounds like rear toe is out of whack and theyre just charging you out the ###### for not fixing it. i had the same problem once, try another shop.

sounds like rear toe is out of whack and theyre just charging you out the ###### for not fixing it. i had the same problem once, try another shop.

This manager seems to really care. I had my alignment checked and he would normally charge 90 bucks to get an alignment, however, he charged me 65. Which is pretty good around here in so cal. Anyhow, I went back like I said and had the mechanic check it again and then cross rotated the tires to see if the problem persists. If so, then he suggests that its due to a radial pull.

Bikeman982

Drive it and see if there is any big difference. Rotating the tires can totally change the handling characteristics.

Every mechanic I've been to takes the hubcaps off before they balance them. I have a lot of scrapes on my hubcaps that can cause some uneven weight on one side. I always have vibration. I was wondering, could my vibration be due to crappy hubcaps? I mean something as small as changing your valve covers on your tires could throw off your balance. After all, mechanics only use ounces to balance a tire.

Bikeman982

Every mechanic I've been to takes the hubcaps off before they balance them. I have a lot of scrapes on my hubcaps that can cause some uneven weight on one side. I always have vibration. I was wondering, could my vibration be due to crappy hubcaps? I mean something as small as changing your valve covers on your tires could throw off your balance. After all, mechanics only use ounces to balance a tire.

Wheels have to be balanced without hubcaps to get the little weights put on the right spots.

Hubcaps are relatively balanced and should not be the cause of vibrations.

Every mechanic I've been to takes the hubcaps off before they balance them. I have a lot of scrapes on my hubcaps that can cause some uneven weight on one side. I always have vibration. I was wondering, could my vibration be due to crappy hubcaps? I mean something as small as changing your valve covers on your tires could throw off your balance. After all, mechanics only use ounces to balance a tire.
Wheels have to be balanced without hubcaps to get the little weights put on the right spots.
Hubcaps are relatively balanced and should not be the cause of vibrations.

You take your car where for an alignment????

You can check for a radial pull your self .Get in a parking lot take your hands off the wheel and accelerate hard off the pline radial pull will go to the tire thats bad. hit the gas and it goes pretty good left then the left tire is bad.and so on.and someone will come back at that with"torque steer".slight right pull on wheel yes but hard right and its the tires.

Also another thing is road force.if you have high roadforce then you will get what feel like a wheel balalnce feel.however if the wheel doesnt shake side to side in your hand at 35-infinity then its not a wheel balance issue or seperation. its road feel from those tires.

Next time its time for a rotation try a side to side and see what that does.if it doesnt change then your rear tires have excessive road force and need turn on the rim or replaced.

Oh yeah did you buy an Avalon?? or a corolla??

Want an Avalon ride buy the Avalon.

or get a real nice set of michelins.

and an alignment for those new tires I know you have hit at least one pothole while driving since you got it aligned last time, huh???

Oh yeah the corolla must be 4 wheel aligned and most tech dont adjust the rears because they are out from the factory.

Later

i wanted to note about the braking, after heavy brake your rotors get hot, to help them keep life after hard brake, drive around a bit and use the brakes, this helps them cool alot more slowly, this will help from getting warped rotors especially with crossdrilled it will help them from cracking

Every mechanic I've been to takes the hubcaps off before they balance them. I have a lot of scrapes on my hubcaps that can cause some uneven weight on one side. I always have vibration. I was wondering, could my vibration be due to crappy hubcaps? I mean something as small as changing your valve covers on your tires could throw off your balance. After all, mechanics only use ounces to balance a tire.
Wheels have to be balanced without hubcaps to get the little weights put on the right spots.
Hubcaps are relatively balanced and should not be the cause of vibrations.

You take your car where for an alignment????
You can check for a radial pull your self .Get in a parking lot take your hands off the wheel and accelerate hard off the pline radial pull will go to the tire thats bad. hit the gas and it goes pretty good left then the left tire is bad.and so on.and someone will come back at that with"torque steer".slight right pull on wheel yes but hard right and its the tires.
Also another thing is road force.if you have high roadforce then you will get what feel like a wheel balalnce feel.however if the wheel doesnt shake side to side in your hand at 35-infinity then its not a wheel balance issue or seperation. its road feel from those tires.
Next time its time for a rotation try a side to side and see what that does.if it doesnt change then your rear tires have excessive road force and need turn on the rim or replaced.
Oh yeah did you buy an Avalon?? or a corolla??
Want an Avalon ride buy the Avalon.
or get a real nice set of michelins.
and an alignment for those new tires I know you have hit at least one pothole while driving since you got it aligned last time, huh???
Oh yeah the corolla must be 4 wheel aligned and most tech dont adjust the rears because they are out from the factory.
Later

So your saying that if it is an imbalance, then I will feel it at 35mph? Hmmm......I've had my wheel vibrate only at freeway speeds before and a balance fixed that. Also, since your a tech, could you answer this? My wheel will vibrate at freeway speeds for about 7sec, then will stop for about 7sec, then start vibrating again at 7sec, so on and so forth. The transition from vibration of the steering wheel is gradual and subtle. It doesn't just all of a sudden start vibrating and just suddenly stop. Why would my car behave like this?

NOTE: Happens for about 2 years now, ever since I've got my car

I have a 1998 toyota corolla CE (NO DAMN FRONT SWAYBAR! lol, PLOWS into corners real

real.......really nice!)

My car has never been in an accident and has 200k miles.

I take my car to BIG-O-TIRES for alignment

Could you also explain road force? That is a new one for me.

Also note that your vibration could also be a result of the suspension setup (ie. no OEM swaybar) - in that case, no amout of fiddling will work, untill you get it straighten out.

in your particular case - you have to religiously rotate those tires - even after 5K of mostly highway use, you can get enough wear on the tire to have these vibrations manifest themselves. I also would not rule out a hub related problem (shows up in some very hard to balance situations, or where the balance seems to be intermittent).

As for tire balancing, make sure the place uses something like this:

http://www.craigautometrics.com/huntergsp9700.htm

- most better tire shops, places like Tirerack, and dealerships will carry this machine. Makes for goof-proof balancing.

Also note that your vibration could also be a result of the suspension setup (ie. no OEM swaybar) - in that case, no amout of fiddling will work, untill you get it straighten out.
in your particular case - you have to religiously rotate those tires - even after 5K of mostly highway use, you can get enough wear on the tire to have these vibrations manifest themselves. I also would not rule out a hub related problem (shows up in some very hard to balance situations, or where the balance seems to be intermittent).
As for tire balancing, make sure the place uses something like this:
http://www.craigautometrics.com/huntergsp9700.htm
- most better tire shops, places like Tirerack, and dealerships will carry this machine. Makes for goof-proof balancing.

Will this detect out of round tires that of course require you to change tires until you get ones that are round?

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