Toyota Vs. Volkswagen Quality

Well, I have recently gotten a furious bug about possibly selling/trading my '03 Corolla for a new model 2006.5 VW Golf or Jetta TDI. I view diesel engines as the way of the future, and I want to get on the bandwagon.

Does anyone have any experiences and well-founded opinions regarding the qualitative differences between Toyotas and Wolkswagens? I have a friend who's owned a TDI New Beetle, Jetta, and Passat all within the last few years, and he claims they have been bulletproof -- albeit not crash-proof in the case of the Beetle. A neighbor has just purchased a TDI Jetta, but she obviously wouldn't have any experience with it yet. I want to know just how good they are, and not just in terms of drivetrain reliability. I want to know how everything from the door locks to the turn signals hold up, how expensive and owner-maintainable they are, basically, everything we already know about our Corollas.

I don't take the notion of giving up my Corolla likely, but with no prospect of Toyota giving us a diesel-powered version any time soon, I don't want to go any longer without the ability to exploit the virtues of diesel power and it's biodiesel fuel flexibility. Comments, please!

Hello! I too have a 2003 Corolla. I know many people who have had VW's in the past, including me.

My sister had an '85 Golf. It was loud and it was slow. It was hard to start on cold days. But man, once she started it, it ran and ran and ran and ran. Then, she bought a '99 Jetta and swore she would never buy VW again because everytime it went in the shop, it came back with expensive repair bills. The first month she had the '99, she had to get her driver door lock replaced because it decided it didn't like her keys anymore!

A close friend of mine had a '95 Jetta. She loved it, but as it got older, it began to break down more and more. She ended up replacing it with a Civic. Though she misses the VW, she likes the Honda more.

I had a '97 Passat VR6. It ran well for 70,000 miles. My brake sensors went bad and at the same time I needed a coil pack replaced. Both repairs at once about killed my paycheck (at the time). Not to mention some other sensors and annoying things going bad over time. Whenever I took it in, it always took a few days to get back because they had to order the parts special. When I ended up selling it, the transmission was starting to slip.

On the other side, my fiancee, her parents, cousin, a friend of mine, and I all have Toyotas. Talk about bullet proof! They just keep running! My biggest complaint about VW is the repair bills and how often it needed to be repaired. I realize cars break, but I also noticed I was paying twice as much for VW parts and labor than I was with my Toyota. My Corolla has 90,000 miles and has only gone in for a wheel bearing.

That's my experience, but maybe VW has changed their quality since I've dealt with them. Hope that helps you out somehow!

now_driving_VW

The only reason why I have a VW is the TDI motor.

The TDI motor is very stout. People exaggerate the maintenance requirements on the TDI motor.

Since you are looking at a new one (get one while you still can)---

you need to use a oil that has VW505.01 certification.

Another misconception is parts are expensive. Yes, at the dealership, it is, but you can buy OE parts cheaper from outside resources.

VW fanatics are dash-strokers. Yes, the quality of the materials used on VW's are nicer to touch.

The 2006 Golf is on the older chassis. The 2006 Jetta is on the newer MKV chassis. Ergonomics and handling is a lot better on the MKV Jetta.

Based on my 2002 Golf TDI....

I had to replace my coolant temperature sensor ($6 part) and MAF ($130). I do have to replace my turn signal switch ($100)

When my front bearings went at 80,000 miles--- I upgraded the spindle & brakes to the larger 1.8T/VR6 ones (next step... TT brakes). THe front brakes are 11" and the rear 9"-- discs all around with ABS. (the MKV Jetta also has traction control)

Mods.... I have an older one... but a chip does yeild excellent results-- more power and a lot more torque. Sure...0-60 isn't that great, but passing power is ample stock.

Maintenance is as follows:

100,000 miles: Timing Belt & Water Pump ($500 installed)

every 20,000 miles: Fuel Filter ($30)

the first 5,000 miles is oil change, then at 10,000 miles, then every 10,000 miles thereafter.

40,000 miles: air filter

Cabin filter (once a year)

Also... www.ross-tech.com -- you can buy hardware/software to access the OBDII & ECU and make changes!!!

Repair manual??? About $100 or less for a Bentley manual www.bentleypublishers.com -- they are an VW recommended manual

The engine breaks in at about 10,000 to 15,000 miles-- that's when you see the mpg jump!

Lastly... GET HEATED SEATS

As long as VW keeps selling TDI's... I will keep buying a VW for my commuter car.

If you pull the dipstick--- don't become paranoid it's black. You cannot judge oil condition by its color.

Larry,

On the diesel issue, I don't fully agree with your thinking. The way of the future will be a good sturdy bycicle. Diesel still comes from the same oil barrel. So does bio-diesel in a sence, since the energy used to grow the fuel, harvest it and convert it comes for the same oil barrel. Right now it takes 1. 5 to 2 gallons of fuel to produce 1 gallon of bio-diesel (This doesn't apply is you own a french fry stand and have unlimited supply of waste you can use for fuel). Hybrids (either gas hybrids or diesel hybrids)will be used in the transition from cars to bicycles or public transport, so get a Smart For2!

My experience on VW is 'old' I bought a 1991 gasoline Jetta brand new (Mk2). To date, it is the car that loved to drive the most. But I was at the dealer throught out the warranty period. The schedule maintenances, and the wear parts not under warranty cost me an arm and a leg. During the warranty period, I was probably at the garage once a month for a variety of glitches, some under warranty, some not. I was almost in tears at first, since I was back at the dealer every other week for the first few months. After the warranty period expired, the car suddenly got reliable, I switched to an independant garage who did exclusively VWs and used OEM parts. The parts beign more expensive is a myth.

A colleage of mine of who swears by diesels has had an 88 Jetta and 92 Golf (both Mk2) and he also experience the reliablilty improving the day the warranty expired. The 92 he still has, must be over 300K. Not being able to find a reliable, used and cheap VW diesel, his other car is an Echo. The older Mk2 VWs were economy cars, the new Mk4 and Mk5 are like small luxury cars

His daughter had an Mk3 or 1st year of the Mk4 and it is a reliability nightmare, the rear disk brakes cost $$$ to fix and were prone to the turbo gunking. The turbo issue was fixed the following year but they never recalled the older ones. She was left high and dry with major repairs afeter warranty expiration. She is selling it for a Matrix XRS.

I do not know anyone with the newer Mk5 (MkV), they do look very nice. The 2007 Golfs are availble here in Canada, so an MkV is what you would be getting if buying new. Unless you do a lot of sitting in traffic, I don't think you will save much on fuel.

When I bought my 91 Jetta, it was probably about the same price as a Tercel. A 2007 Jetta is probaly more expensive than a Camry. I would wait until VW decide to import the Lupo or Polo!

Lastly, nothing drives like a VW and those who own them are willing to sacrifice reliabilty for the increased driveability. My colleages 14 year old Golf with 13'' tires will outcorner my Corolla any day, however with the older diesels speed is not an option (I think they had about 50 HP)

now_driving_VW

Right now it takes 1. 5 to 2 gallons of fuel to produce 1 gallon of bio-diesel

Sounds like stuff that came from the "expert" Cornell study, which has been widely disapproved due to the erroneous and broad assumptions made by the author.

When you take the whole picture, the life cycle energy balance, biodiesel comes in at 3.2 or 220% energy yield.

Compared to gasoline, 0.805 (19.5% energy loss) or petrol diesel, 0.843 (15.7% energy loss).

It does take some energy to produce biodiesel--- however, you have a significant energy gain.

Since biodiesel is derived from natural resources, plants-- it uses a lot of solar energy.

Gasoline, petrol diesel, etc... is also from natural resources, but it is the result of millions of years of matter.

Also, TDI's can run biodiesel without modification. Corolla motors, are not Flex Fuel Capable, it can't run over 10% Ethanol-- of course fuel quality is a major issue.

I'm also considering to buy VW (possibly TDI Passat station -wagon)

And regarding to bio-diesel I read that bio-diesel does not have a lubricating ability which leads to some engine an fuel system problems.

now_driving_VW

biodiesel has higher lubricity than petrol diesel-- especially the more they refine petrol diesel to remove the sulphur--- they lose lubricity with it..so lubricity additives are added.

The biggest issue is getting poor quality biodiesel. That can cause expensive damage

Right now it takes 1. 5 to 2 gallons of fuel to produce 1 gallon of bio-diesel

Sounds like stuff that came from the "expert" Cornell study, which has been widely disapproved due to the erroneous and broad assumptions made by the author.

When you take the whole picture, the life cycle energy balance, biodiesel comes in at 3.2 or 220% energy yield.

Compared to gasoline, 0.805 (19.5% energy loss) or petrol diesel, 0.843 (15.7% energy loss).

It does take some energy to produce biodiesel--- however, you have a significant energy gain.

Since biodiesel is derived from natural resources, plants-- it uses a lot of solar energy.

Gasoline, petrol diesel, etc... is also from natural resources, but it is the result of millions of years of matter.

Also, TDI's can run biodiesel without modification. Corolla motors, are not Flex Fuel Capable, it can't run over 10% Ethanol-- of course fuel quality is a major issue.

Those numbers sound like a study done by the DoE in the late 90's - I know we did some work on that, computer modeling wise. But that was also studying mostly soybeans - there are many other sources now (some better some worse) and even though the study was fairly wide ranging, there were avenues that were not explored (can never take everything into account - study would cost too much). There is a standard that biodiesel must comply with to ensure even quality across the board for larger manufacturers, but would be impossible to impose on your "DIY" homemade biodiesel. But make it more availabe, build more infrastructure, and the quality would take care of itself.

The real number of what the actual energy yield is really anyone's guess. Eventually it will be up to the consumers - Europe has already taken a jump on biofuels - and here in the states, more areas are adding the infrastructure for biofuels. I don't believe that 100% biofuel will be a possibility in my lifetime - but I could see some blending of biofuels and petrofuels being the way to go, especially with some government backing (in some states, this is already the case).

On the diesel side of the question - takes a different driving approach to drive a diesel vs gasoline cars. Drive two Golfs or Jettas (one of each) and you'll see what I mean. Not really too bac, effect would be the same type of deal if you jumped out of a subcompact economy car and into a exotic car or compact FWD vs titanic SUV.

Comparing Toyota to VW is not a even comparison - both have qualities that would appeal differently to each person. I agree with now_driving_VW that interior appointments and quality of materials used is much better on say a VW Jetta side than anything you could pickup on the Toyota Corolla (both models very similar in size). Same goes for ride quality and handling - two different beasts - but you pay for the different as well. Depending on how much the dealer played around with mark up on the cars - you'll shell out $5K - $10K more for a Jetta vs a Corolla - but you also get more standard features, better materials, and more electronic "stuff" (great for you button pushers, out there). Some have complained about overall quality of the vehicles - no doubt due to variances in build quality from a relatively new plant and employees(Corolla - most built in Canada, Jetta - most built in Mexico). Build quality - hard to say - depends on what floats your boat. VW is like a tank compared to the Corolla - just check out the door hinges on the VS vs the Corolla (Corolla has a hinged bar, VW has a beefy BAR). Slam the door shut and the VW closes with authority - not like the Doritos chip door of the Corolla (curb weights: Jetta ~3200lbs, Corolla ~2600lbs). Only thing that made me jump over VW - Dealer. Look up the definition of a bad dealer and you might see a picture of a VW dealer. May not be the case in all areas - but in the two states I've lived in when we had a VW, service was poor to nonexistent.

now_driving_VW

you guys take your cars to the dealer for service??? Never did with my previous Toyota and now my VW.

In some states in the midwest, they imposed (state law) a blended diesel with biodiesel... up to B5 (or was it B2...it's late in the day to be thinking)-- which also helps their local farming economy.

Didn't want to start an off-topic thing with the bio-diesel. default_sad I'm reading Richard Heinberg's The Party's Over and don`t remember the value but it apparently includes the whole picture (from oil and gas unsed to make fertilizer, the gas used in farm equipment, transporting the corn to conversion facilities, etc...) I can look into it further if anyone is interested

I'll agree with fish on the build quality of the body. I could stand-up on my door handles (I actually did once to access my car keys through the sunroof) Woudn't attempt something like that with a Toyota. I was amazed with my brother got his golf, at the doors, closing and opening them, precisely and noiselessly, same with the hood, no clunks to be heard!

My Jetta was built in Germany, not Mexico, and it still had reliability issues at first. Like if it had a 2 year breaking-in period where a bunch of things that weren't right need to get fixed.

If I'd get a diesel it would be a Smart or a fulls size pick-up

I have a relative who owns a successful bodyshop.

He swears German vehicles are the best built,not so much engine wise but body wise.

in my experience, the jetta has been more problem plagued than

my corolla.

friendly_jacek

In Europe, people almost worship VW cars. I'm not sure why because the ones USA gets are very unreliable. Made in mexico?

It's true that TDI is a very good powerplant and the best part of the VW cars. But I find the TDI underpowered and noisy. A friend of mine hypes his VW with TDI but admits that his electric locks don't always work.

Bikeman982

Although German cars are supposed to be well-engineered and assembled well, I would recommend you stick with your current car and save the money.

Although German cars are supposed to be well-engineered and assembled well, I would recommend you stick with your current car and save the money.

Bike et al:

Thanks, all of the inputs have been most enlightening.

I still haven't had an opportunity to test drive any VW's yet, but I will do so over time as an ongoing project. My Corolla is perfect after over three years and almost 38,000 miles. All I've ever done to it is replace oil/filter every 3,000 miles, drain/replace just over 4 qt. of transmission fluid at around 28,000, the cabin air filter last month, and a new serpentine belt last fall. This is the most minimal maintainence I've experienced on any vehicle I've ever owned, and I did most of it myself -- the only exception being the serp belt which was replaced under warranty at the dealer.

I've heard that VW's were maintenence-intensive, and I'm certainly not much interested in that. Therefore, I guess I'll have to get over my inclination to get a diesel Golf or Jetta for now, until I can gather more information.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to buy a German-made VW Golf or Jetta in the USA? If so, what would the VIN numbers start with? The few I eyeballed at the local VW dealer last Sunday seemed to all start with a "W." There were only two TDI's on the lot -- one new Jetta, one used (a 2002 Jetta). My guess is that the TDI's are in high demand, and getting a VW dealer to sharpen his pencil might be a challenge.

now_driving_VW

Jettas are assembled in Mexico

Golfs tend to be assembled in Brazil. You can get German assembled Golfs.

3 years and almost 38,000 miles.... it's not much miles, so a TDI may not be the right choice

I have 4 years and almost 136,000 miles-- on the original clutch

40,000 miles is minimal maintenance on most cars-- it's not that many miles.

I owned a '82 Rabbit Diesel. I bought it for the great MPG and it delivered as promised. It was reliable and a terrific ride. However it was slow slow slow. Dangerously slow. I'd have to turn off the A/C for a little extra power to merge into traffice or make it up a grade.

Later I bought a VW Scricco (sp?) great ride but torque steer was very annoying. It too was reliable and felt very solid when driving it.

From what I read VW quality and poor service from its dealers are what's driving customers away from the VW brand. If VW can solve those two problems I believe they would sell many more cars here in the USA.

I said that to show you I have some history with VW. VW has some strong points as a manufacturer, however, they have some glaring faults that need addressing. Only you can know how much you'll be able to put up with when quallity and service are in question.

Edmunds.com recently listed the Corolla as the "lowest total cost to own" (TCO) in its class. To me that says it all. You can find some vehicles that may get better MPG but what is the total cost to own? Edmunds says it is the Toyota Corolla.

Bikeman982

Corolla is the lowest TCO (Total Cost to Own)? Glad I own one of them!!

Ti-Jean

The first letter or digit in the VIN is;

W- Germany

3- Mexico

9- Brazil

1 and 4- USA

2- Canada

K- Korea

the above post is correct on the vin identification.

now for my confession. I have been using this site for not my corolla, but my girlfriends. I have a golf TDI, and it rules! I was never into cars until I got this golf, and now I'm addicted. I have owned two tercels in the past.

I think the golf body is very solid. the doors, and everything feel really heavy and solid.

Here is what I have weighed out:

The TDI is a car to own if you like to work on your car. It will need timing belt, fuel filters, and other maintanence. Much less expensive to do this yourself. Also very fun to drive, and mod if that is your thing. If you would like to upgrade the performance of a car, the TDI is the way to go. When the time comes to replace the injectors, you can get bigger ones. catch my drift?

The Corolla is a car to have if you don't want to work on your car. They are just known for reliability. Toyota is a good company, they just have way too many SUV's!!!

This site is a must for the TDI owner Click me!

Cheers,

Anton

From my experience and my co-worker's, German (WVW) built Golf/Jetta was/is not more reliable than the Mexican built (3VW), all had equal share of problems

Instead of getting heated seats, just get a down filled coat that is long enough to cover your behind when seated. default_biggrin

Hi,

My sister owns a 02 beetle and has had problem after problem. Keep in mind this is the 2 liter tubo engine, which is used on almost all the VW's (jetta, golf etc.) she had problems with the struts, horn, brake sensors, turbo valve and alternator. All these things had to be replaced. All these things went out before the car hit 70,000 miles. I have had my toyota corolla (prizm) since 1998 and have not even had to change anything not even brakes. Its at over 100,000 and nothing but tires and oil changed. With the amount my sister has paid on those repairs she could of paid for half a toyota corolla.

In addition the bettle looked really nice in the begining.. but the interior plastic is very cheap and scratches really easy... If you dont believe me when you test drive one (not the one your going to buy) just push your fingernail lightly on the plastic and it will tear..

I know the jettas and golf have sharper looks than the corolla but... the question is are you willing to sacrifice reliability and pocket money for it .......... thats what you need to be asking your self

Hope this helps

2.0 liter VW's do not have a turbo

1.8, and 1.9TDI have turbo

as well as VR6 i think

If she had them fix something on the turbo, then she should find a new mechanic!

now_driving_VW

Negative on the turbo for the VR6

It's just the 1.8T and TDI

Sorry the engine cover says 20 valve turbo

I thought it stood for 2 liter i mis read it

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