Jump to content

Registered users (members) don’t see this ad!

Sign in to follow this  
Bull6791

Engine Rebuild/swap

Recommended Posts

I do not know I guess a engine swap is just taking an engine out of an other car and putting it in your car. When you do a swap I do not know what engine you can use.

 

With the 2azfe engine what is the issue: Toyota tryed a different piston design and it did not work.

I do not know. Now I guess they came up with a TSB with an updated part.

I think the best thing to do is get a new or rebuild engine from Toyota because you will be guaranteed to have the right updated part.

 

Engine rebuilder: that is all he does all day. He should be able to build engine with right part that is his business.

I am going to look the 07 Camry up on KBB and get the value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct, engine swap is exactly like it sounds - you are taking a known good engine out of a donor car and installing it in the target car. You can technically use any 2AZ-FE engine, though it is usually best to stick with the same generation / same model to avoid unnecessary fabrication and modifications.

 

Not all 2AZ-FE engines have the problem with oil consumption. Some have gone over some extreme distances and don't drink a drop of oil. Others can consume all the oil in the crankcase on a single tank of gas. The real trick is find those 2AZ-FE that won't consume oil - unfortunately, this is nearly impossible to do - as this is not something that can easily be determined. Even if the donor engine doesn't have a history of oil consumption, there is no guarantee that it will never develop oil consumption in the future.

 

Same with a brand new engine - if you can find them - so called crate motors. No guarantee that they will not eat oil. Factory remanufactured engines (reman) are favored by some, as they usually come with a warranty. Many are clean, used engines that have been lightly rebuilt and verified by factory personnel - usually have updated parts in them, but that is not always the case. Unfortunately, with many of these remans, you can't tell if the parts are updated unless you open up the engine and verify it yourself.

 

IMO, rebuild is usually the best way to go - you know exactly what parts are being installed, you can see if there are any issues with the engine. Biggest problem you'll run into - is the skill of the rebuilder. If possible, get one that has specific experience with this particular engine, not just one that works on any engine. I've seen guys that have rebuilt 100's of SB/BB GM engines - but doesn't mean they are remotely qualified to work on my engine. Rebuild is also one of the more costly options, given the amount of labor involved in this sort of work. Costs can approach that of a brand new engine - some cases, can even be more costly.

 

Looking up the value of the car is a good start. Gives you a good baseline to figure out what would be the more viable option of swap / rebuild / junk - time and money-wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fish

What is actual problem with 2azfe: Toyota tried a different piston design and it did not work.

So now they have a TSB with up dated part.

 

Would it be better to get new engine right from Toyota so you are guaranteed to have correct part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For owners with oil consumption, it was an issue with the oil drainage holes in the piston itself. Over time, those holes got clogged with deposits that prevented the oil from draining properly. This is exactly the same issue that some of the heavy oil consuming 1ZZ-FE engines had.

 

Just like the 1ZZ-FE, not all 2AZ-FE engines have oil consumption - some were exceptionally reliable and didn't burn an excessive amount of oil. Lots of people point the finger at Toyota and say faulty engineering - but I think it is more of an engine build QC issue, how the car was initially broken in, maintenance schedule, faults during operation, etc. If you add up all the complaints of oil consumption vs the number of vehicles sold with that engine in it - you are talking about fractions of a percent of cars with excessive oil consumption.

 

Don't think you can get a brand new engine from Toyota - might be able to find one at a retailer that has some NOS parts (New Old Stock). Even if you could source one, it may not have the new part in it. The TSB only addresses issues with certain cars experiencing a particular problem, it is not something that will be automatically be done with all replacement parts.

 

That's why I mentioned that a new or reman engine will not guarantee you will never have oil consumption down the road. This is also why it is critical that if you go the engine rebuilder route, that the rebuilder knows the quirks of the 2AZ-FE engine. Revised pistons are only one potential fix to oil consumption, the builder has to be look at the engine carefully and address any other shortcomings as well. If that person is not familiar with this family of engines, you could be looking at repeat work done down the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the problem with the 2azfe engine is over time the oil drainage holes in the piston clog.

What I do not get is how come no other Toyota engine ever had this problem.

Maybe the holes are too small or their must be something else.

 

Fish

I like to know what is different with new part that makes it not burn oil as opposed to the old part.

Fish if you know what makes the old and new parts different can you let me know.

Edited by Bull6791

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just gave you one other that has this same issue in above post - the 1ZZ-FE 1.8L engine. There are quite of few other engines that also have issues, but may not get the same notoriety as the 2AZ-FE and 1ZZ-FE engines, given how vocal many of these owners are. Some manufacturers - like VW and Chrysler actually have worse oil consumption, but you don't really hear about them as much. Toyota, having a more robust reputation, any issue that pops up - owners freak out.

 

Some have blamed the oil drain holes being too small or located in an area that gets too hot - but it is likely that we may never know what the true cause was. IMO, it is likely due to a number of issues, compounded together, that merge into a perfect storm to cause this oil consumption.

 

I haven't seen the new parts myself - so I don't know what the exact differences are. Only thing I know is that they are designed to reduce the likelihood of the drain holes being clogged. There are pictures floating around on the net with pistons with more holes, larger holes, shorter piston skirt, reworked / machined on the thrust side of the piston, etc. But I'm not sure if these are a function of being the new part or if the shop modified the piston.

 

At some point, I might drag myself to the parts counter and see if they can pull up the two parts numbers and compared the two designed side by side - maybe when I get more time in my schedule. My Matrix has the same engine and started to consume oil - but I've kept it manageable to this point, since I'm checking the levels often. But eventually, I'll be in the same predicament and will have to make the call then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just so I understand. The piston had 3 sets of rings. The last set are the oil control rings the one with the holes causing all the problems in some Toyota engines.

What are the first 2 sets of rings called and what do they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Piston rings (top down)

 

- Top ring or 1st ring: Primary compression ring and majority heat transfer

 

- Second ring or intermediate ring: Second compression ring, secondary heat transfer and oil control

 

- Oil control ring: Primary oil control ring, oil scraper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fish

How many miles on your Matrix. What engine is it 2azfe.

Fish I am surprised with how good you maintain your cars it is starting to consume oil.

 

The 2azfe engine and 1zzfe engine are the same engine or are they made the same because both engines have the same problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got about 90K on the Matrix - same engine as yours, the 2.4L 2AZ-FE. It started to consume oil when I first got it and I knew about the potential aspect of oil consumption. So I stayed ontop of checking oil levels, topping off immediately. Not a perfect solution, but keeps the car running well. There is nothing special or vastly different that I'm doing, compared to other owners, I just keeping an eye on fluid levels and top them off ASAP.

 

The 2AZ-FE and 1ZZ-FE are two different family of engines but similar in overall design. Both are distributorless ignitions, return-less fuel systems, have VVT-I (on later 1ZZ-FE), timing chain (interference engine), taper squish combustion chamber design, self-EGR, use low tension rings, similar cooling setup, etc. They also have to run a lot hotter than older engines (emissions requirement) - which likely contributed to oil consumption. But this is not unique to Toyota - lots of other manufacturers also have oil consumption, some much worse that Toyota - but usually becomes a bigger deal with Toyota given their reputation for exceptional reliability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

(Only shown to guests, not registered members.)


×
×
  • Create New...