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Bull6791

Engine Oil Discussion - Topic Split

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MOBIL 1 OIL AND ENGINE NOISE

Look at my post called TIGHTER TOLERANCE ENGINES. One of the first couple posters post something from TOYOTA Nation called: DIFFERENT LOOK AT 0w-20 OIL AND NOISE. This happened to HARDTOP and I was curious why that oil gave the engine noise.

I want to try MOBIL 1 oil for my car. Why do some people get engine noise when they use Mobil 1 oil. That is why I am nervous to try it.

Thanks.

Edited by Bull6791

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Each car is different - some cars like thinner, less viscous oil - some do not. Noise is not necessary an indication of a problem, could just be sound damping issue only - some engines just transmit more noise than others. The move to 20 weight oil was to push corporate CAFE MPG numbers, as dictated by federal regulations. Depending on the engine and the driving conditions - the lower viscosity oil worked just great for some, terrible for others.

 

Two of my cars love thinner oils - because of my driving conditions and the typical speeds I drive at - the thinner oil works great. For the other car, since it seems more varied driving conditions and driven by my wife - the heavier viscosity oils work better. UOA and routine checks of fluid levels, MPG, and overall noise will tell you which oil your car likes the most.

 

As for differences in oil filters - between Toyota OEM and Denso - I'd say it is a wash, both are similar in quality. They flip-flopped between several different media designs in the different part numbers - some use a heavy, stacked pleat setup, some use a special foam media, others more like conventional pleated paper elements.

 

The vid that dom posted is a good example of a wide range of potential media and filter construction. You can come up with all sorts of metrics to try and categorize the different filters. Why one could be superior to another. Why one could filter better than another. Bottom line - matters less of what brand of filter you get, more than you change the fluids and filters on a routine schedule.

 

I have used pretty much all the filters you can easily get your hands on out there over the years. If you look in my garage - you'll see a small stockpile of Toyota OEM, Denso, WIX, NAPA gold, K&N, Mobil 1, Purolator, Mann, Champion, and TRD. I just stock up on them when they go on sale - don't have a favorite filter or go-to brand. Only one that I don't buy is Fram - doesn't mean that it is a poor filter, just my personal choice. In fact - Champion labs makes Fram as well as Mann, Purolator, Bosch, Car and Driver, AC Delco, Lee, STP, Deutsch, Mobil 1, PowerFlow, Motorcraft, and more. They could look markedly different internally, but they all come from the same parent company. Its one of the largest oil filter manufacturers out there. WIX is made by Dana and includes NAPA filters. Denso markets their own and makes Toyota OEM.

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Fish

What is sound dampening issues.

I have been using PENNZOIL ULTRA PLATINUM and I like it. I want to try one of the thiner 5w-30 oils like you. would it be worth

A try. Like Mobil Valvoline sin power and GERMAN CASTERAL.

IS German casteral good and where do you get it.

Edited by Bull6791

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Just that many engine noises can be attenuated or reduced by any number of things - change of a specific part, adding more mass to the engine, adding insulation, running different fluid viscosities, etc. Some engines make less noise with a heavier viscosity - some make less noise with a thinner viscosity.

 

If you have been running the Ultra Platinum and have been happy with it - there is no reason to run anything else, other than to satisfy your curiosity. Like that old adage says, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". If you have UOA for that run on Ultra Platinum - then post it up. No reason to switch oils unless it run badly in the engine or your UOA comes back poor.

 

GC or German Castrol motor oil can still be found in some retailers, but not always stocked up. As oil goes, its makeup is pretty decent. Known to have good UOA results, made up of Group IV PAO and Group V Esters basestocks, oil's color is green, later formulations are now gold.

 

Takeaway - there has been some extreme responses to this oil, some cars completely "hate" this oil. Likely from the particular mix of PAO/Esters - some cars that initially didn't consume oil / leak oil - now leak and/or consume oil. Others run exceptionally well on this oil. If you will fall in the former or latter - can't tell until you run a couple of crankcases full of this stuff.

 

Don't get too caught up in the running this brand or that brand of oil. The type of basestocks, additive package, blending, oil specs - those are just numbers, none of that really matters to the engine - it is the finished oil and how it runs in the engine that counts. Those numbers might add up to an awesome TBN for the oil, but if you change it out before the number significantly - you are effectively wasting the oil's useable life - not getting any additional protection or benefit for yourself.

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FISH

Most people at my work use MOBIL 1 oil with MOBIL FILTER. How is MOBIL filter.

The MOBIL oil lasted the longest for you. Almost 18k miles. So I am curious to try that or VALVOLINE SYNPOWER.

Fish do you think I will get engine noise like Hardtop. He used MOBIL 0w-20 and 0w-30. I would use MOBIL 5w-30

Thanks.

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Mobil 1 filter is OK - I get them free with Mobil 1 oil specials. As indicated in my earlier post - they are made by Champion Labs - same company that makes Purolator and Fram.

 

Both Mobil 1 and Valvoline Synpower ran well for me - but I have to add that this is "extremely" dependent on your engine and driving conditions. Some engines like the way that Mobil 1 shears down in grade over time - some do not.

As for noise with lower viscosity oils - you can only find out by running them. There generally isn't much difference between the 0W- oils and the 5W- oils. Remember, the oil number that matters at operating temperatures is the second number. Ex. 0W-40 vs a 15W-40 - both oils are "40" weight at temperature. 0W would tend to flow better at low temperatures, compared to the 15W oil - hence the "W" designation or "winter".

 

A 0W-20 vs a 0W-30 - now there will be a difference in viscosity at operating temps, as you are comparing a 20 weight to a 30 weight.

 

Again I'll caveat that there is a lot more going on than what the numbers imply. Along with the stated oil weights, the type of basestock blended into the finished oil and how much VII (viscosity index improvers) are added to the oil will also greatly influence how this oil could potentially perform in an engine. This is critical if you push the oil to extended oil change intervals. For your usage - 5000 mile oil change interval, will be likely very hard to see any differences between these synthetic oils.

 

But we are getting WAY off topic, as your filter thread is breaking down to an oil and tribology thread.

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Fish

Just so I understand. MOBIL 1 and VALVOLINE SYNPOWER shear down thinner oil and Pennzoil ultra platinum shears up thicker oil.

 

Thanks

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As for shearing up/down - that is not universally the same for everyone. In my experience, running those oils in my cars - Mobil 1 sheared down the most, Synpower sheared down but not as badly, PP and PU (Platinum and Ultra) stayed in grade or sheared up. Much it was dependent on fuel dilution in the oil - more fuel saw greater changes to viscosity - where Mobil 1 sheared down to the next oil weight, PP sheared up the next weight higher.

 

Not sure what you are trying to understand from this - oil thickness (viscosity) is not proportional to wear protection, ie, thicker oils will not necessarily protect as well as thinner oils. You'll have to ask a tribologist to get the details - but the advances in chemistry have changed the game a bit. Plus there is a no clear correlation between UOA numbers, oil specs, engine in question, driving style, driving conditions, length of service, etc. that definitively point to any combination that works superior to another. Most of the observations are anecdotal - ie, "butt feel" - car seems to run "smoother", engine seems to have more power, etc.

 

Bottom line - don't worry about if the oil shears up or down - run the oil that the car seems to like the best.

 

As for who makes Toyota branded oil - it varies depending on region and what sort of oil - synthetic, conventional, new 20 weight oils or higher weights. Mobil is the OEM provider for many of the oils, especially automatic transmission fluids. Also the major supplier for conventional Toyota branded oils. As for its synthetics - could be Mobil, Shell, or Nippon. The additive package (determined by VOAs) on Toyota synthetics are considered surprisingly simple in makeup. Your other synthetics may have a more stout additive pack, but the Toyota ones have shown great (low) wear numbers in owners UOAs. If you can get synthetic Toyota oil on sale (sometimes as low as $5 a quart), I wouldn't hesitate to buy a case or two.

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