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fishexpo101

Next New Car: To Be Or Not To Be Toyota

Toyota Motor Company - as good as it gets, or are there better choices  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. If you had to buy a new car in the next couple of months, would you choose Toyota?

    • Yes, Toyota still makes the most reliable vehicle out there for the money
    • No, Toyota has sat too long on its reputation, competitors are making better vehicles for your hard earned money
    • Maybe, depends if they start stepping up their vehicle's quality, go back to what made Toyota legendary in the first place


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I test drove the vw jetta gti sedan and it was fun plus the interior was nice. Only reason I wouldn't buy one is because my local dealer's service is poor despite having the best equipment. They can't even balance tires right so one couldn't expect their more detailed service to be better.

 

I'm not buying toyota or honda next time since neither tried to keep me as a customer by standing behind their products when things went wrong. I had to pay for their bad choices since they were too chicken to cover them. Penalizing customers for malfunctions they had no involvement with is not a good way to keep them buying again in the future.

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I can agree with that. I had to replace my fuel pump and my intake manifold gasket at MY expense. Now I need a new belt tensioner.

I think all TSBs should be Recalls!

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Fish

I know Subaru recommends 7500 miles oil changes but is that to long between oil changes. I thought the longer your OCI and the longer the oil sits in the sump that was bad. The longer the oil sits in the sump the acidity in the oil is bad for the car. So that is why I am thinking their 7500 mile oil change interval could be too long. Even though it's factory recommended by Subaru if you are going that long between oil changes should you do Used oil analysis to stay on top of acidity.

Actually its 7500 or 7 1/2 months what ever comes first. She never hits the milage so we change oil every 7 1/2 months

On my O5 corolla if I switch to synthetic oil I can bump OCI from 3000 to 5000-60000. Now because of oil sitting to long and acidity in the oil any thing over 5000 miles I should do used oil analysis.

So it's a two fold question: with Subaru OCI 7500 long between oil changes should I be doing UOA to stay on top of acidity in oil.

Also with 05 corolla if I switch to synthetic oil 5000-6000 mile oil Change interval what would be the time to do UOA to stay on top of acidity in oil. At 5000 miles.

Thanks Frank.

 

Acidity factor of the oil will be dependent on the operational mode of the car, ie - how it is driven and the type of motor oil used. You've probably run across the term TBN or Total Base Number of the motor oil. TBN refers to the available reserve alkalinity of the motor oil, the higher the TBN, generally the more acid it will be able to neutralize.

 

If your driving style/conditions will cause an excessive amount of acid to form in the engine - you'll have to pull a UOA to find out. In general - with most of the current synthetic motor oil in the latest API spec - 7500 miles is nothing to them. In the case there car will be seeing some very short trips or low accumulated miles over the year - stick with the old rule of changing the oil twice a year.

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Fish

The maintenance schedule for Subaru is 7500.

My wife works near our house. She goes 4 miles a day round trip to work. So that is not many miles a year. Following the Subaru maintenance schedule at 7500 that only comes out to 1 oil change a year.

Fish in your opinion since she does not go a lot of miles a year would you follow the recommended Subaru schedule of 7500 mile oil change interval.

Or would it be better to do to oil changes a year. If you do 2 oil changes a years at what milage would you change your oil.

Fish what would you do. Please let me know.

Thanks Frank.

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Best way to answer this is to pull a sample of oil to be tested. Every engine is unique - some can run longer on an oil change than another. Since the cummute is so short, don't worry too much about Subaru's recommended change mileage - go by elapsed time.

 

If I was guessing - you could probably get away with one oil change a year, on synthetic. The 4 mile round trip will be the tough part - that will generally not get the oil up to temperature long enough to burn out all the moisture/fuel. If you through in a longer coummute couple of times a year - should be OK. Just have to get the oil up to temperature and keep it running, varying the load for a solid 10-15 minutes if you can.

 

If the UOA comes back and says your TBN is too low - they just halve whatever interval you were using at the time. If you running one year interval - say couldn't even get to 7500 miles, maybe got it up to 5000 miles - then do it twice a year, don't mind the mileage.

 

The key is to see what the engine can do - need to pull a UOA - you can sample every month if needed, using a siphon will help minimize unnecessary downtime for you. With a really short duration drive, may not even get it up to full temp - might have to consider running a HDMO (Heavy Duty motor oil that is as close to the recommended grade as possible). Again - won't know until you test the oil.

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I test drove the vw jetta gti sedan and it was fun plus the interior was nice. Only reason I wouldn't buy one is because my local dealer's service is poor despite having the best equipment. They can't even balance tires right so one couldn't expect their more detailed service to be better.

 

I'm not buying toyota or honda next time since neither tried to keep me as a customer by standing behind their products when things went wrong. I had to pay for their bad choices since they were too chicken to cover them. Penalizing customers for malfunctions they had no involvement with is not a good way to keep them buying again in the future.

 

 

I can agree with that. I had to replace my fuel pump and my intake manifold gasket at MY expense. Now I need a new belt tensioner.

I think all TSBs should be Recalls!

 

Yeah, that's why I refused to even look at Fords for so long - terrible dealership network and insane fees ($80 garage fee to pull the car into the garage before anything is touched). Though in some cases, can't really fault the manufacturers, could be the dealeraship that is the problem. I know that some Toyota dealerships bend over backwards to work with customers - some, couldn't give a crap.

 

I agree than some TSBs are pretty serious mechanical fixes - should really be a recall. But that is the NHTSA's call - sometimes they don't see the numbers that would justify a recall, compared to what information that can be picked up on a forum.

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Fish

If I do UOA of Subaru what does it mean if TBN comes back low like you said. You said if TBN comes back low take 7500 Subaru OCI and cut it in half.

I just do not know why if TBN comes back low I would cut OCI in half.

Fish you told me before why is it not recommended to do only one oil change per year and more preferred/ better to do at least 2 per year.

Fish What I am trying to do is prevent engine damage. I know my wife only puts 4 miles a day on her Subaru and that comes out to not a lot of miles a year. I just do not want engine damage because 7500 mile OCI is too long because we are not driving enough miles per year and I could have prevented it by changing the oil more frequent when we do not drive the vehicle that much.

Thanks Frank.

Edited by Bull6791

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TBN is low - then have to look at your wear metals, insoluables, fuel dilution, flash point, etc. Most of the UOAs that I've seen have some technican comments. If it is an issue, they will let you know. Usually tell you if the oil is still OK to use, ready to change, or well past useable service life.

 

Cutting OCI 1/2 was just a suggestion to a possible low TBN - not a specific course of action that you must do. Lots of ways you can do this, could be done iteratively - check every month, note UOA numbers, continue checking until oil protection is depleted. Get the best answer to how the engine is doing, what the oil change interval you safely run. But also take the most amount of effort on your part (sampling at regular intervals, can get expensive depending on duration). Or you can do it by bisection - run to a set change interval, see what the numbers look like - next run 1/2 that interval - see what the numbers look like. From there - you can choose to bisect again or say that the safe oil change interval will be between the 1/2 point and your initial interval.

 

All depends on what the numbers look like. There is no set oil change interval that will apply to all situations. You need to get all the numbers in hand and then make a decision from there. No point guessing at this until you get a UOA - otherwise you could get spun up / worrying about a non-issue.

 

Unfortunately, we don't have a crystal ball - so there is no definitive way to know if there will be any engine damage, long term. That's why manufacturers tend to err on the conservative side - assuming normal operating conditions. In your wife's case - that is not considered normal operating conditions, be considered special operating or severe duty. They recommend 3750 miles or 4 months in those cases, shorter if you have a turbocharged engine.

 

IMO, that is pretty conservative on synthetic oil fill even with short trips. One year could be stretching it, if you have any doubts that change it more often. Twice a year should be plenty with synthetic, assuming a pretty steady accumulation of miles. Again, can't say for sure without UOA numbers.

 

Kind of oil, brand of oil, UOA numbers, filtration media, how the miles are accumulated, type of driving, etc. - take the factory recommendation as a good starting point, as information comes your way (UOA, forum knowledge, DIY experience, etc.) modify it to get a good balance of cost, downtime, and protection.

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Fish

If a person only drives 12,000 miles or less a year why is it better to do at least 2 oil changes a year rather than just one a year.

thanks Frank.

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6000 mile, 6 month oil change interval is quickly growing industry oil change CYA (over your a$$) mantra. The old 3000 mile, 3 month oil change have been shown to be exceptional too early for most instances, situation. Manufacturers are pushing for longer change intervals - many are pushing from 5000 miles to 7500 miles. Some are 10K, some at 15K or more. Many of these cars have more specificated algorithms than before and actually can monitor and calculate when the oil needs to be changed.

 

It all boils down to a pain threshold - what is your pain threshold for oil changes. Many are hesitant to go that far, because of all the dooms-day sayers still with a 3K oil change interval. 3K was too short, 10K was too long, 5K and 7500 were pretty popular - so 6K pretty much split the difference.

 

In a modern car, in good running order covering about 50 miles daily round trip commuting - works out to about 12K mile yearly. Could a single oil change run that distance? Sure - lots of Prius owners are doing this with good results, My Corolla and RAV4 could do this as well, though I run more conservative change, as it gives me a buffer incase I get sidetracked. Does it mean everyone could do it? Impossible to say - but I'd would say that some cars could definitely NOT make it that far - like my Matrix. Wether this also applied to your vehicle - depends on how you drive it, what oil you use, how you are going to monitor oil performance (UOA) and your pain-threshold.

 

Whenever you have doubts - follow the manufacturer's recommendation. Don't want to risk voiding the factory warranty on a possible lubrication snafu - if there is a problem, hope that it happens under warranty and that you are folling the manufacturer's schedule to the letter. Doesn't hurt to change the oil earlier - just keep in mind that you could be possibly wasting time, money, and adding to the the environmental impact. Extending it longer is possible - advances in lubrication tech makes it possible - just have to approach it smartly.

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Fish

I have questions about UOA.

I want to run a sample on my car after the next oil change. What would be the better way to go.

1. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 3000

2. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 5000.

3. Try Synthetic oil for the first time and see how it does and sample after 5000 miles.

Fish in about 800 miles when I do my oil change this will be the first time I ever took a used oil sample. The lab is Blackstone.

How do you get the stuff for oil sampling and how much does it cost.

If you think I should go the synthetic route I would probably try Mobil and Valvoline synpower oil. How good are these oils.

Thanks Frank.

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Love my '09 Corolla S, which is my first Toyota, but have to say I'm not too impressed with the 11th generation version. If I had to choose a Toyota, it would be the Camry or RAV4. But if I didn't have to choose a Toyota, I'd go with either the Hyundai Elantra GT, Mazda 3, Mazda CX5, Mazda 6, Subaru XV Crosstrek, or Subaru Legacy.

 

Toyota have forgotten what made me a first-tiime Corolla owner (and I'm not kidding): an upper glove box, spare change coin box, a carry tray in the trunk for a gallon of milk (the salesman made a particular point about that), two--count 'em--two 12 V outlets, room in the back for me to "sit behind myself", and 40+ mpg highway.

 

Okay, the new 'Rolla will prolly achieve the same mileage, but has anyone sat in the back of one? Not only is there less head room, your head is right up against the top of the door. Really, there isn't as much room in the back as Toyota want us to believe.

 

But since my Corolla's mileage is only a smidgen over 36,000, I shouldn't have to look for a new car anytime soon. Will Toyota have their act together by then? Who knows.

Edited by corollamike

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my 2013 Rolla S is the first Toyota product I have owned. I am satisfied with the choice and to be honest initially I chose to purchase it was because it was a good deal at the time and it has the reputation to outlast me. That being said I do believe Toyota has relied to much on there reputation up until several years ago. Mind you only in North America as the 10th gen Corolla came standard with a 6 speed manual and in some markets with CVT (I do believe). Of course in other countries the corolla is more up market than in the US, even in Canada the Corolla was available with features that were not available in the US. I think Toyota is starting to turn the tide and are now realizing they have to offer more and modern tech to compete. The Camry is refreshed for 2015 and while the new Corolla is great I do agree the missed one thing on it. While I'm not a boy racer I find the 9th and 10th Corolla S and XRS were good lookers that were set apart from the other models (side skirt, spoiler ETC) I think it was done tastefully. The new S is no different than the others. Lip spoiler? that is the same as the ECO one. the only difference is the front bumper cover. I think the S should have a skirt package like previous and I think it would be wise for Toyota to bring back the XRS. All that said I have no issues with my '13 and will not trade it in as I am a sensible guy and if it aint broke then I don't need to fix it. If I were in the market for a new vehicle.........I would consider the new rolla but I am really liking the new Nissan Micra (sorry guys that is Canadian only)

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Fish

I have questions about UOA.

I want to run a sample on my car after the next oil change. What would be the better way to go.

1. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 3000

2. Put Valvoline premium conventional 5w-30 in and sample at 5000.

3. Try Synthetic oil for the first time and see how it does and sample after 5000 miles.

Fish in about 800 miles when I do my oil change this will be the first time I ever took a used oil sample. The lab is Blackstone.

How do you get the stuff for oil sampling and how much does it cost.

If you think I should go the synthetic route I would probably try Mobil and Valvoline synpower oil. How good are these oils.

Thanks Frank.

 

This for the Subaru, Corolla or Camry?

 

In any case, push it to 5000 miles and sample, no real sense samplling sooner other than to see how the additive package gets depleted. Doesn't matter if it is conventional or synthetic - just pick the one you want to use down the road. If you are unsure of what to run and using this as the metric to pick either conventional or synthetic - then you'll have to sample both types at 5K.

 

Mobil and Synpower are perfectly fine to try out. Lots of good synthetic and conventional motor oil there - just pick on that you can easily get, goes on sale often.

 

UOA from Blackstone - go to their site and order a free sampling kit. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

 

When it get it, you should see two plastic screw top containers, label, order slip and a baggie. When you are draining the oil, left the first couple of seconds flow out to the drain bucket and the stream slows a bit - stick the clear container in the stream until you get a decent amount of oil, pull it out, cap it - clean it up, stick in a baggie, stick in other container - label, fill out the order sheet, stuff it all into the container, mail it out. Sampling procedure is explained in detail on their site: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas-sampling.php

 

Tests cost $25 for the standard analysis, TBN test is a separate charge - $10. So total cost will be $35 + postage. If you get a 6-pak prepaid testing kit - it drops the price down to $20 for a standard analysis.

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Love my '09 Corolla S, which is my first Toyota, but have to say I'm not too impressed with the 11th generation version. If I had to choose a Toyota, it would be the Camry or RAV4. But if I didn't have to choose a Toyota, I'd go with either the Hyundai Elantra GT, Mazda 3, Mazda CX5, Mazda 6, Subaru XV Crosstrek, or Subaru Legacy.

 

Toyota have forgotten what made me a first-tiime Corolla owner (and I'm not kidding): an upper glove box, spare change coin box, a carry tray in the trunk for a gallon of milk (the salesman made a particular point about that), two--count 'em--two 12 V outlets, room in the back for me to "sit behind myself", and 40+ mpg highway.

 

Okay, the new 'Rolla will prolly achieve the same mileage, but has anyone sat in the back of one? Not only is there less head room, your head is right up against the top of the door. Really, there isn't as much room in the back as Toyota want us to believe.

 

But since my Corolla's mileage is only a smidgen over 36,000, I shouldn't have to look for a new car anytime soon. Will Toyota have their act together by then? Who knows.

 

Toyota is planning to eventually axe the Corolla chassis, as it kept growing in size and may eventually compete against its stable mate, the Camry. From what I've read - the new Corollas will be based on the current Yaris platform. That's why I'm keeping my 8th gen - the front seats have more leg room than the 9th gen Corollas. On the 2nd gen Matrix (10th gen Corolla platform) - they increased the amount of room significantly. But surprisingly, our 2009 Matrix XRS feels a lot smaller than our 2003 Matrix XRS, even though dimensionally they are almost the same.

 

I agree - the little storage features seem to disappear on the new models. Hooks and extra storage removed to make way for more electronic content. Fortunatley, the Rav4 doesn't disaapoint with storage. Lots of covered bins and because we got the 3rd row delete option - we have a huge covered storage well to stuff pretty much anything we want.

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