Jump to content

Registered users (members) don’t see this ad!

Sign in to follow this  
De Daddi

Engine Swap In 00 Corolla

Recommended Posts

Hey fish I think I'm going to just do a rebuild like u said, however tho. I found a deal (well atleast that's what I think) on some Carrillo rods and CP pistons. The only thing is that the compression ratio is 9.1 instead of 10.1 as stock. I'm going to turbo when I'm done building but not right away so I was wondering since the compression ratio is less than stock how much hp decrease would I encounter on driving it without the turbo untill l'm ready to do it? I know my tranny makes my engine rev up quickly cause of the way its geared(4.5).

 

If I get rods only its $680. Then I can get wiseco piston from mwr with 10.1 ratio(stock) for $545. Which totals $1300 compared to $1099 for the cp and Carrillo rod kit.

 

I was told by one the guys from mwr that my stock rods can hold up to 265 hp. I don't know if I should just get a rebuild kit from ebay with NPR pistons and just do that wat or spend the extra $$ (that I don't have ) and go with forged kit?

 

Any input would help thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the drop in compression - the car will run a little off until you get it boosted. A drop from 10:1 to 9:1 isn't a huge change - but you can almost guarantee a 5-10WHP hit right away, assuming the powerband didn't shift. If it did - power drop will be quite a bit more pronounced.

 

As far as which way is best - depends on what power gains you ultimately want to see, or even if you'll stay with the car.

 

From some of my past project cars - best advice - spend what you can spare, but don't go all out. Set a sensible budget - then double it, as you won't stay on budget. Build up on what you plan to run immediately - planning for the future can be problematic. Build it all in one shot if you can - as you'll find that you'll only get one chance/plan for one build at a time.

 

Stuff can and will come up - will push this boosted project further down the road. I've seen a number of build where the owner ran on low compression pistons while they were waiting for boost. 1) They ran into either time or financial issues which sideline their boost project indefinitely, or 2) since the engine was "broken" in without boost - as soon as they ran boost, they broke something, which in turn lead them eventually to point #1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I found this topic very interesting since I am in the same situation. I have a 2001 corolla CE my engine is burning oil I check it many times is not leaking. I saw a video apparently these corollas from 98 to 02 have only 4 holes in the pistons and once they are sealed the engine burns oil. The car is not burning a lot, it does it slowly. Honestly, I don't understand why my car failed on me that way; I always take good care of it and it uses full synthetic oil. Anyway, my option is to change piston and rings or just the rings and drill holes and clean the old pistons; However, I wanted to turbo the car in the future, and I came across this forum.

 

Now my problem is I cant find forged pistons for the car, so I was wondering if 2zzge forged pistons can fit my 1zzfe. I also was wondering my auto transmission will have to be swap for a 5 speed manual since it is just a 3 speed transmission I don't think it will hold the power. I only want to reach 175 or 200 HP, so I am guessing I can go just 8 psi to be safe. Below are the piston characteristics.

K569M82 2ZZ 82.00mm (Standard Bore) 11.25:1

 

Any help is welcome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Automatic should hold under that amount of power, but you definitely want to run auxillary cooling to keep the ATF temperatures under control.

 

2ZZ-GE pistons are not interchangeable with the 1ZZ-FE - even though they have the same displacement (1.8L), the 1ZZ-FE uses a longer stroke and narrower piston compared to the 2ZZ-GE (1ZZ-FE = 79mm, 2ZZ-GE = 82mm). Surprised that you could not find any forged pistons for the 1ZZ-FE, Wiseco still makes a decent forged set - 0.5mm over.

 

Check out MonkeyWrenchRacing (http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/) - probably the best place to source aftermarket performance parts for the 1ZZ-FE and 2ZZ-GE, NA or boosted applications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks fish, I was looking at some other post where you guys mention the TRD Super charger. I read somewhere I could possibly make it fit in the 8th generation with some custom work but my question is do I need internals change like the forged pistons for this type of supercharger? , and you think my tranny will hold just like you said it would survive on a turbo charger in low psi? or just the supercharger and some tuning work plus making a whole on the hood and adding the scoope will be enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The TRD supercharger, if you can still find them, was a low boost variant. Added about 30-40HP tops in stock form, more if you modified the pulleys. With that sort of boost level, as long as you had the right engine management system in place and properly tuned, the rest of the engine could stay completely stock and be perfectly fine. The transaxle is another matter - with manual transaxles, be a good idea to upgrade to a slightly beefier clutch and pressure plate - to make sure the added power could get down to the wheels. On automatics - almost require auxillary cooling to make sure that fluid temps stay under control. Running at elevated temperatures will kill an automatic transaxle more quickly.

 

The real key in any power adder is the tune. Without a proper tune, even a low boost application will kill the engine. With a great tune, even those high revving, high compression 2ZZ-GE survived 10-12PSI boost on a stock engine. On a 1ZZ-FE, with a good tune, 8-10PSI on stock internals should be fine. The crank on the 1ZZ-FE is actually pretty strong, those running a 2ZZ-GE stroker project actually run a 1ZZ-FE crankshaft.

Edited by fishexpo101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I see, Yeah I was looking all over for those TRD Superchargers and I found out they were discontinued by Toyota. I wish there was an easier way to boost the car a little. The only intake that looks nice and apparently is perfect fit for the car is an injen short ram. However, short rams only put more hot air. I even though of extending the stock intake box so it could receive direct air through the upper grill, but I think is a very bad idea :lol:. Will a piggy bag improve it without an exhaust and intake? or I need to have the three of them to actually see an improvement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Short ram might still be worth it - heat soak is your main enemy there. Once the car is under way, the outside ambient and underhood temps are pretty close together. With a CAI, depending on where you live, hydrolock is a possibility. Modifying the stock intake is a mixed bag - some have gotten similar power gains of a CAI by removing the stock resonator (behind the bumper cover, between the fender and wheel well) and dropping in a free flow panel filter. Atleast it makes the same sort of noise as an aftermarket intake.

 

Adding a piggyback might be worthwhile - will need to find one that can control the VVT-i to get any appreciable gains. That means something like a CAMCON or similar. Problem is, these are non-trivial to tune. Unless you can find a garage to help you tune this - it would be a matter of you street tuning it, trail and error. This would also mean adding a wideband O2 sensor to help you tune it. The factory tune is pretty conservative. Optimizing it with a piggyback might yield 5+ HP gain.

The classic I/H/E (intake / headers / exhaust) doesn't generate decent gains on the 1ZZ-FE, as it is already pretty optimized. The exhaust manifold is already a tubular design - some Celica guys were able to port and polish it and get a couple of HP gain. Surprisingly, just bolting on a TRD muffler made a decent jump in power ~ 5HP. But that was on a Celica - same basic engine, but they have a different tune, different setup of intake and exhaust, and slightly oversized valves in the head. In case you were curious, yes, there were a number of owners that move the Celica GT ECM and intake/exhaust to a Corolla - gains achieved was basically zero. Intake mods are a mixed bag as well. Some have reported good results with a composite shorter length runner design of the 9th gen intake with their larger throttle bodies. Not a huge amount of power, couple of HP, but the real gains were in throttle response. The car sound and "felt" like it had more power.

 

Tune for I/H/E + piggyback - maybe look at 10HP gain, possibly more. The engine is just too optimized to get a lot from bolt-ons.

 

To really unlock some power, need to crack open up the engine. Aftermarket cams have shown good results for the least amount of work on the engine. Coupled with a good intake / header / exhaust + EMS - could be realistically looking at 20+HP gain. But at that point - might as well strip down the whole engine and rebuild it with higher CR pistons, P&P, etc. - go all out N/A. Or go the other directions and pump money into a forced induction project. Cheapest way to get more go is to go nitrous. Can always do a swap as well - couple of interesting possibilities - depends on amount of money and time you want to put into it.

 

The 1ZZ-FE is a great engine - but to get any tangible gains - you need to spend some serious amount of money on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I live in South Florida and from May to September rains almost 3 or 4 times during the week sometimes it gets flooded so yeah there is a high probability to get hydro locked the good thing is that the injen Short ram I wanted to buy also comes with a cover that prevents water to get inside. Honestly I want my car to have better response time during traffic time I want to be able to get in the next lane fast and safe. I usually drive it in the Highway almost everyday.

 

I was looking at all possibilities since eventually I have to open up the engine because of the oil burning problem. Turbo and super chargers are expensive and unsafe and I guess is not for a daily driven car. The option you just gave me sound safer, but I don't know if it really would be a cheaper than turbo charging it lol. Now my next question is changing the internal parts will mean basically switching from 1.8L to 2.0L by getting bigger bore and higher compression ratio pistons, and a lighter camshaft. Last question before I go to sleep I was going to do the engine rebuilt by myself with some supervision of a mechanic, but this new camshafts will have a different timing than the stocks or it will be like putting the stock camshafts? taking apart the engine takes time effort and patience but putting the stuff in the right timing is a little bit tricky since it is VVT-I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of ways to go, if you don't want to run forced induction. You can keep the displacement the same or punch it to as much as 2.2L, though most tend to stay under that for engine longevity.

 

Replacement camshaft - just plug and play, you don't have to mess with anything on the timing side. Only thing that these aftermarket performance cams change is lift and duration. Timing will be uneffected, even with VVT-i in the mix. Some tuning will be required to make sure the cylinders get properly filled, also have to make sure that the lift isn't too high, as it could make contact with the piston. Remember that the 1ZZ-FE is an "interference engine" with a very tight taper squish designed combustion chamber. Choice of pistons, if you plan on oversizing the valves, shaving the head/block to raise compression, etc. - need to balance all this out.

Taking apart the engine isn't so bad - its getting back to get that this the hard part. You particular case, it is a perfect opportunity to look into engine mods - the engine has to come apart anyways, just depends on how elaborate you want to get with the mods. You are correct, you can easily spend the same amount or considerably more running a N/A engine vs a supercharger or turbocharger. As far as reliability - all boils down to the tune. If the tune is conservative - you can run a supercharger or turbocharger on a completely stock engine without any internal mods. Power won't be crazy high. but it will be more than what you have. If you want to build more power - completely possible with the 1ZZ-FE - just would take a small fortune to make it happen.

 

Take a peek at Monkey Wrench Racing - www.monkeywrenchracing.com - one of the few sites that cater specifically to the 1ZZ-FE / 2ZZ-GE engines. Their project cars have produced some staggering numbers - they list what they've done and how much it cost, so that people can get a handle on what it will cost them. If anything, be something good to price check against as your getting your wish list ready.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I just checked MWR and I was looking for a setup I found Darton Sleeves 82.5mm $349, Wiseco Pistons 82.5mm $619 12:1 compression ratio, and crower Camshafts 272/272 duration, .396/.396" Lift $419, ring compressor 82.5mm $39. According to this setup valve springs don't need change, doesn't need to be machined. Do I need all of this? do I need new connecting rods?

 

all the parts just say 1zzfe without year and I have the feeling is for other year models of the 1zzfe will they fit regardless?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, most of the 1ZZ-FE internals are interchangeable through the model years, aside from the VVT-i option on the 2000 and up model years. Darton sleeves, Wiseco pistons, Crower cams - couldn't get much better than those parts, absolutely top notch stuff. Don't forget the right rings as well. All seals all around the block and head, any head work you want done - swap in a Celica or MR2 1ZZ-FE head to automatically get larger valves, P&P, etc. Now is the time. That much potential increase in flow - you would be best served looking at fabricating a new induction setup. Throttlebody would be the chocking point, need to punch that out - not a whole lot of meat on there, so boring it will result in little gains. Others have used the larger TB from a 9th gen Corolla or Celica GT, some have gone big and worked in an V8 Infiniti's throttlebody.

 

Running a punched out engine (3.5mm larger diameter piston and bore with the stock 91.5mm stroke ~ 2L) coupled with a 12:1 compression - probably be in your best interest to upgrade the rods as well. Crank will be fine, valve springs don't need to be upgraded unless you want to push the engine past 7000RPMs, where valve float might be a possibility.

 

Don't need to get a ring compression unless you have access to a shop to push out the old cast liners, machine the block, and then push in the new ones. Make sure the shop understands a 1ZZ-FE engine, cannot freeze the liners and heat the block to ease the install - those liners don't shrink appreciably much when cold, block will crack if they don't evenly and lightly heat it (heat bath is best) - as the block is an alloy of high tensile aluminum, ie. brittle. Its an open deck block - so a torque plate has to be installed before boring.

 

Another option is to have MWR put it all together for you - they have blocks already setup, ready to roll - you your old block as the core return. Just an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I got confused lol. you say from 2000 and up models parts are not interchangeable? My car is vvt-i 2001. That would mean I cannot use those parts? also I think adding the cams will be out of my budget do you think just getting a bigger bore (Pistons and sleeves) would be enough to see a nice power gain? also when talked about the throttle body, and rods you meant I have to change that too or that is just optional? and Btw sorry for asking so much, but I am recently starting to learn all of this, like a month ago I had no idea loll. I have been reading a lot about it lately.

 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry - meant to say that the 2000+ 1ZZ-FE engines are mostly interchangeable. There are some differences, like slight variations in the camshaft profile from the 8.5 gen (2000-2002) and the 9th gen (2003-2008) 1ZZ-FE. The 7th gen Celica GT and the MK3 MR2 1ZZ-FE are the same on the bottom, but internally and on the head - they are slightly different. Lighter weight con rods for higher revs, larger valves in the head.

 

Just running a bigger bore and sleeves with the required pistons will see more displacement, but not necessarily equal power gains. Usually, increasing the displacement will yield more potential torque, but not really horsepower. There is a possibility that you could even lower VE - volumetric efficiency, which would mean that it could be making less power than before. Just changing those bits will almost guarantee a lower VE. You'll have to make complementary changes to the cam profile, induction and exhaust system + custom tune to take all those changes into account. This will be a pretty big project.

 

Adding the high compression pistons you list will help in boosting potential power gains, but the tune will be absolutely critical - will need to set a reasonable baseline - probably no safe way to do a street tune with that, at least I would not recommend that.

 

Con rods - the stocks ones are pretty decent, but you can always improve on them. Aftermarket rods are generally lighter in weight (good for a higher revving project) as well as stronger (better materials, difference in designs). Some trade weight for more strength. With a high compression setup, like you are envisioning, the stock rods could be your weak link.

Throttlebody and induction system (intake manifold and associated piping, etc.) - on a build of this scale - could be your bottleneck to getting enough air into the engine. Also depending on your powerband, you may have to experiment with intake runner lengths, possibly add a surge tank, venturi horns, etc. The stock one is a long, tubular design - good for maximizing torque and power from off idle to middle of the rev range, but will be choked at increasing RPMs. Running a short runner design, like the composite intake on the 9th gen 1ZZ-FE will help with swelling the power band in the middle, but is not efficient at the low or very top of the rev range. Some Toyotas have a variable induction setup - started with Toyota TVIS system on the 4AGE engines and like my 2.5L in the Rav4 - actually have two sets of intake runners - off idle and lower RPMs, they run through a long length runner, as RPMs climb, they switch to a shorter runner length. They also incorporate a surge tank in the layout to help keep the cylinder filled at high RPMs.

 

Usually with engine mods - you generally want to start from the outside and work your way in. That will minimize the amount of downtime and "shock" factor when you see how much all this could cost you. Changes you make on one aspect of the engine has to be balanced out to ensure you get the most gains from it. Example - if you improve the intake flow so that engine breathing is optimized, then you have to make a complimentary improvements to the exhaust (has to be able to push more exhaust out) and bump up the injection strategy (more air require more fuel), while making sure that you don't run into a heat issue (may have to increase cooling to compensate), etc.

 

That's you see people installing mods that don't seem to do anything - improving one aspect needs help from supporting systems to be effective. Would explain why one person saw significant gains, while others didn't see anything or worse, lost performance. Of course there are mods that really don't do anything - but that is another thing altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I see, so is not that simple. Hm Ill think about it then I have to open it up anyway, but I dont want to end up wasting money for less performance lol. Btw I changed my air filter yesterday put a purolator and my car feels so heavy lol. Im going to clean my K&N and put it back in there it really does improve response. I think that K&N filter is better than adding a short ram. The only bad thing is that the first time I think I didnt add as much oil as I was supposed to and I found some very thin dust in the intake, thats the reason I took it off plus I heard MAF sensor gets damaged from the oil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

(Only shown to guests, not registered members.)


×
×
  • Create New...