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corollamike

Corolla Electric Power Steering

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As I've mentioned before, I have an '09 Corolla S. Last summer, when washing it, the doors suddenly locked. I heard them click. I was standing with my washing sponge at the driver's side door. I took my key out and unlocked them. A little while later, the doors locked themselves again. Wondering what could be doing it, I noticed where and how I was standing next to the driver's door. In my pocket was my cell phone, and it was on. I unlocked the doors, took my cell phone, held it up to the door lock, and the doors locked themselves!

 

Toyota claims there is nothing wrong with their electronic systems. My Samsung Hue II locks my Corolla's doors when placed close enough to them! Aren't all consumer electronic devices supposed to be inert when around other consumer electronic devices?

 

My steering hasn't gone whacky like others' have. I wonder if something as simple as a cell phone or iPod being too close to the steering's motor could cause the steering to go wild. From the reviews I've read, many have claimed their steering felt wrong not long after buying their Corolla.

 

Check out what others have said at Topix: http://www.topix.com...VQJ8NDQHTI3G12G

UPDATE: See the article at AOL Autos about this topic: http://autos.aol.com...g-investigation

 

Here is a little snippet of the article: " notice the steeering wheel sometimes pulses only when my cell phone is...docked to the right of the steering wheel," wrote one Corolla driver in an official complaint on June 26, 2009. "It's strange I can sometimes tell if my Blackberry is going to ring or get an email. The steering wheel seems to shake or try to steer on its own. This is similar to my other 2009 Toyota Corolla that I resold to the dealer. I wonder if more shielding is needed to reduce any interference."

 

Interesting.

Edited by corollamike

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Check out what others have said at Topix: http://www.topix.com...VQJ8NDQHTI3G12G

 

Interesting discussion there, even though it sounds like some posters don't know how to write. 2 people in the short discussion reported accidents and one mentioned this:

Drive by wire is similar to fly by wire:RF issue

My neighbor is a retired Navy mechanic. They had an radio frequency interference issue. If they would use equipment in the 2.4 ghz range the "FBW" equipment would go nuts. Well we tried it with my Electric power steering sensor (near keys). We used a wireless card in a laptop and a freq generator. It caused the Toyota Sensor to reset or (reboot). We tried a standard blackberry and a cell phone which was putting out near 1.8 ghz. It caused the same issue. They need to shield the senor right under the drive column. It's built different then the Prius where the Prius sensor is near the floor.

Be carefull gang.

 

You might be on something with the cell phone issue. I meant to test cell phones against my RAV4 with DBW, but had no time. Maybe this weekend.

 

I'm glad I still have my 03 corolla with throttle cable and hydraulic steering.

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Wow, wonder who else can open your car with their cell phone. Sounds like a case of bad electronic shielding.

 

Thankfully, the phone LOCKS them, and does not open them!

 

If the phone opened them, I would've had that fixed. But for them to be locked by my cell phone is only a nuisance. When I wash my Corolla, I keep my phone with me in case of a call, of course, but have since taken to keeping it in a dry spot within earshot of hearing it ring.

 

It's the fact that one electronic device has an effect on another that concerns me. I have just been thinking in the couple of days since, that maybe -- just maybe -- the same sort of "phenomenon" is occurring with the electronic feed from the gas pedal. After all, the sensor is just down from the steering wheel, and not so far away from the door locks.

 

Hopefully, SOMEONE, if not Toyota, will find out just what is going on. I assume Toyota is looking into this, as this effect is happening to others. I know it is, because the posts are everywhere.

Edited by corollamike

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Guest spiderz

You guys are right on the ball. I got the idea of testing my cell phone to see if it was interfering with my electric power steering on my new 2009 Toyota Corolla.

 

The results were astounding. The car was dancing all over the place at 120 km/h on the highway. As soon as I switched off the cell phone the car began to drive straight. I tried different speeds: 100, 140 and 160 Km/h with the same result. I also left the phone on and placed on the rear seat away from the steering box, and the vehicle's steering stabilized quite significantly.

 

Obviously radio wave electromagnetic interference is the source of the corolla electric power steering problems. It baffled me why this car was brand new and it couldnt steer straight. Toyota said nothing was wrong with it and it was within manufacturers specifications.

 

All of the new corollas do not have this fault, maybe like less than 20%. The first batch of 2009 corollas from 2008 to early 2009 doesnt seem to have the power steering problem. My car was manufactured in japan in Dec 2009.

 

This is a serious problem that can cause an accident. I hope toyota start implementing the recall soon

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Hmm, quite an interesting response to the RF from a cellular phone. Very interesting to see if it is specific to a carier, network, protocol.

 

Have to wonder if this is a problem that wasn't seen when the 10th gen Corollas were first designed. Not sure if many now - but there typical design cycle for an automobile is between 5-8 years - if there is a platform change, could be even longer. Basically, when the 9th gen Corollas first came out in 2003, Toyota was already started working on the 10th gen Corolla. Also note that 3G networks were started up in 2003 or so and now the premier network for bandwidth hungry consumer devices. Very possible that the first designs of the electric steering and some of the components for the DBW system were never tested against an active 3GPP signal - as those signals were not as ubiquitous as they are today. Depending on the amount of interference - could be a simple shielding issue all the way to a complete redesign of the electronics.

 

I know this is not hte first time that cars acted funny like this - remember when CB were the preferred long range coms in vehicles. Back then, you could run a pretty decently powered CD radio and didn't have anything to worry about affecting driveability. Then when people installed them in EFI cars - their ECMs either got bad signals making the car run "off" or worse, fry the engine computer, leaving the person stranded. Sometimes it didn't need to be inside the car - some truckers ran high-powered boosters to extend their range - sometimes if they transmit close to a sensitive car - the car would suddeny be affected.

 

Suprising that we still haven't learned from EMI issues now. Even my computer systems at work, I have to keep my smartphone away from them to prevent funky behavior. Still affects my speakers attached to the onboard audio on the one machine though - sort of like ESP. The speakers will buzz and pop about 2-3 seconds before my phone rings. Annoying, but interesting nonetheless.

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Interesting stuff on the 3G (now, 4G in some areas) network interference angle. Many drivers report either out-of-control steering or acceleration that "just happened". Are the geographical areas where these incidents "just happened" hotbeds of RF activity? Are they always "hot", meaning, always active, or simply sometimes active?

 

There is a report (unable to find where I bookmarked it, will look for it later) out on UA in other makes of cars. While Toyota had more reports than Ford, Audi seemed to have the most -- more than Toyota and Ford. A lot more.

 

Japan has a HUGE wireless market in their country. Nearly EVERYONE in Japan is connected to the network. Now, consider, if you're Toyota, the implications that your electronics -- your JAPANESE electronics -- are faulty, and subject to manipulation by RF interference -- even Japanese RF interference. That would be a HUGE complication for you. You would want to downplay that 24/7/365, would you not? Yes, you certainly would.

 

But talk of RF being the cause of UA would fall flat like talk that reverse-sugar substitutes cause behavioral problems (which they do -- just ask an airline pilot). People who are overweight, or have diabetes, use altered sugar substances to reduce caloric intake. The FDA will NEVER take them off the market. Wireless communication is here to stay, too. So, the question is, with car companies refusing to admit their electronics are subject to the whims of RF signals, where do we go from here?

 

Bet the farm that every company who uses drive-by-something-or-rather is hard at work to secretly squash this problem. I'll bet no company admits to electronic-system shortcomings. If they do, I'll be wrong, and the world will be a safer place to drive.

 

It's going to take more than a tin-foil hat to shield us from this one.

Edited by corollamike

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I'm brand new here and saw this topic and the responses thus far and felt compelled to respond. There appears to be so much misinformation ITT.

 

Doors locking themselves:

 

I feel this is a simple issue of RTFM (Read The F&*king Manual). From the owner's manual (Page 35):

 

Security feature

If a door is not opened within approximately 60 seconds after the vehicle is

unlocked, the security feature automatically locks the vehicle again.

 

 

In other words, if the doors are locked, and you press the unlock button on your key fob, the doors will unlock. However, if a door is not opened with 60 seconds of the door being unlocked, the doors will relock themselves. That's how it works. It's impossible that a cell phone could lock the doors. If you have not done so, even if you think you know everything there is to know about your car, pull out the owner's manual and read it cover to cover. I am always surprised at the amount of people who never read their car manuals. It's like someone buys a $10 gadget from the store and will read the manual on how it works, yet the same person buys a $15,000+ machine that has the potential to kill you or someone else if used improperly, and forgoes the manual for some reason. I don't get this.

 

In conclusion, RTFM!

 

 

Electronic Power Steering:

 

READ, electronic power steering is NOT a drive-by-wire, or steer-by-wire system. There is STILL a steering column and shaft directly geared to the rack and pinion drive. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the car to steer itself independently of the steering wheel. IMPOSSIBLE!. Don't believe me? Try this. Pull the negative terminal off the battery (no more electricity), get back in the car, insert key to unlock steering column. Put car in neutral. Magically, you can still steer. OMG! You see, the electronic power ASSIST steering in the corolla is no different than the traditional hydraulic assist in older cars, other than its motive force. Both systems have a hard geared drive from the steering wheel to the rack and pinion. The difference comes in the assist; one is hydraulic and the other is by electric motor. Both systems STILL have direct drive to the steering wheel.

 

So, why does the Corolla wander? This is more of an issue of OVER assisting. Slight movements in the steering wheel are generating larger than desired movements in your lane. Still, the car is not going to steer itself without moving the steering wheel. It simply cannot do so because the steering wheel is geared to the rack and pinion.

 

Please stop confusing EPS (Electric Power Steering) with some sort of drive-by-wire or steer-by-wire system.

 

Thanks!

Edited by Corners

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^^^ I'm pretty sure people are clear on the distinction of DBW throttle body and electric power steering here. The issue is the possibility of electrical noise interfering with the proper operation of said components.

 

As you mentioned, the EPAS uses a electric motor instead of the conventional hydraulic pump to provide steering assist. No voodoo here - same mechanical steering setup, but use an electric motor instead of the old belt driven hydraulic pump. The potential problem area deals with the sensors that are used to detect the motion and torque of the steering column, and ECM commands that are sent to the electric motor coupled directly to the mechanical components of the steering system.

 

It is unknown what it takes to introduce a potential steering error here, but it is possible that signals that are misinterpreted by the ECM could change the amount of assist to the steering wheel, which can be disasterous in certain conditions.

 

I completely agree that the car cannot "steer" itself independantly of the steering wheel - as the system is still mechanically coupled, but I could see the electric motor "thump" - manifesting as a kickback in the steering wheel.

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I'm brand new here and saw this topic and the responses thus far and felt compelled to respond. There appears to be so much misinformation ITT.

 

Doors locking themselves:

 

I feel this is a simple issue of RTFM (Read The F&*king Manual). From the owner's manual (Page 35):

 

Security feature

If a door is not opened within approximately 60 seconds after the vehicle is

unlocked, the security feature automatically locks the vehicle again.

 

 

In other words, if the doors are locked, and you press the unlock button on your key fob, the doors will unlock. However, if a door is not opened with 60 seconds of the door being unlocked, the doors will relock themselves. That's how it works. It's impossible that a cell phone could lock the doors. If you have not done so, even if you think you know everything there is to know about your car, pull out the owner's manual and read it cover to cover. I am always surprised at the amount of people who never read their car manuals. It's like someone buys a $10 gadget from the store and will read the manual on how it works, yet the same person buys a $15,000+ machine that has the potential to kill you or someone else if used improperly, and forgoes the manual for some reason. I don't get this.

 

In conclusion, RTFM!

 

 

Electronic Power Steering:

 

READ, electronic power steering is NOT a drive-by-wire, or steer-by-wire system. There is STILL a steering column and shaft directly geared to the rack and pinion drive. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the car to steer itself independently of the steering wheel. IMPOSSIBLE!. Don't believe me? Try this. Pull the negative terminal off the battery (no more electricity), get back in the car, insert key to unlock steering column. Put car in neutral. Magically, you can still steer. OMG! You see, the electronic power ASSIST steering in the corolla is no different than the traditional hydraulic assist in older cars, other than its motive force. Both systems have a hard geared drive from the steering wheel to the rack and pinion. The difference comes in the assist; one is hydraulic and the other is by electric motor. Both systems STILL have direct drive to the steering wheel.

 

So, why does the Corolla wander? This is more of an issue of OVER assisting. Slight movements in the steering wheel are generating larger than desired movements in your lane. Still, the car is not going to steer itself without moving the steering wheel. It simply cannot do so because the steering wheel is geared to the rack and pinion.

 

Please stop confusing EPS (Electric Power Steering) with some sort of drive-by-wire or steer-by-wire system.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Haven't anything better to do than say "...(Read The F&*king Manual)...", eh?

 

At the risk of getting a warning, why don't you go BITE A ROCK?

 

For the love of Peter, Paul and Mary, what is it with you forum crawlers bent on browbeating people? We're on this thing to discuss what we know, what we think we know, and how we feel about our Corollas. CRAM IT, punk.

 

Oh, and Thanks!

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As I've mentioned before, I have an '09 Corolla S. Last summer, when washing it, the doors suddenly locked. I heard them click. I was standing with my washing sponge at the driver's side door. I took my key out and unlocked them. A little while later, the doors locked themselves again. Wondering what could be doing it, I noticed where and how I was standing next to the driver's door. In my pocket was my cell phone, and it was on. I unlocked the doors, took my cell phone, held it up to the door lock, and the doors locked themselves!

 

Toyota claims there is nothing wrong with their electronic systems. My Samsung Hue II locks my Corolla's doors when placed close enough to them! Aren't all consumer electronic devices supposed to be inert when around other consumer electronic devices?

 

My steering hasn't gone whacky like others' have. I wonder if something as simple as a cell phone or iPod being too close to the steering's motor could cause the steering to go wild. From the reviews I've read, many have claimed their steering felt wrong not long after buying their Corolla.

 

Check out what others have said at Topix: http://www.topix.com...VQJ8NDQHTI3G12G

UPDATE: See the article at AOL Autos about this topic: http://autos.aol.com...g-investigation

 

Here is a little snippet of the article: " notice the steeering wheel sometimes pulses only when my cell phone is...docked to the right of the steering wheel," wrote one Corolla driver in an official complaint on June 26, 2009. "It's strange I can sometimes tell if my Blackberry is going to ring or get an email. The steering wheel seems to shake or try to steer on its own. This is similar to my other 2009 Toyota Corolla that I resold to the dealer. I wonder if more shielding is needed to reduce any interference."

 

Interesting.

 

 

the doors automatically lock its a safety feature on most new cars

ive noticed on my 09 corolla ce that when the drivers door is unlocked after a while it locks it self but when all four are unlocked they stay unclocked

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I'm brand new here and saw this topic and the responses thus far and felt compelled to respond. There appears to be so much misinformation ITT.

 

Doors locking themselves:

 

I feel this is a simple issue of RTFM (Read The F&*king Manual). From the owner's manual (Page 35):

 

Security feature

If a door is not opened within approximately 60 seconds after the vehicle is

unlocked, the security feature automatically locks the vehicle again.

 

 

In other words, if the doors are locked, and you press the unlock button on your key fob, the doors will unlock. However, if a door is not opened with 60 seconds of the door being unlocked, the doors will relock themselves. That's how it works. It's impossible that a cell phone could lock the doors. If you have not done so, even if you think you know everything there is to know about your car, pull out the owner's manual and read it cover to cover. I am always surprised at the amount of people who never read their car manuals. It's like someone buys a $10 gadget from the store and will read the manual on how it works, yet the same person buys a $15,000+ machine that has the potential to kill you or someone else if used improperly, and forgoes the manual for some reason. I don't get this.

 

In conclusion, RTFM!

 

 

Electronic Power Steering:

 

READ, electronic power steering is NOT a drive-by-wire, or steer-by-wire system. There is STILL a steering column and shaft directly geared to the rack and pinion drive. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the car to steer itself independently of the steering wheel. IMPOSSIBLE!. Don't believe me? Try this. Pull the negative terminal off the battery (no more electricity), get back in the car, insert key to unlock steering column. Put car in neutral. Magically, you can still steer. OMG! You see, the electronic power ASSIST steering in the corolla is no different than the traditional hydraulic assist in older cars, other than its motive force. Both systems have a hard geared drive from the steering wheel to the rack and pinion. The difference comes in the assist; one is hydraulic and the other is by electric motor. Both systems STILL have direct drive to the steering wheel.

 

So, why does the Corolla wander? This is more of an issue of OVER assisting. Slight movements in the steering wheel are generating larger than desired movements in your lane. Still, the car is not going to steer itself without moving the steering wheel. It simply cannot do so because the steering wheel is geared to the rack and pinion.

 

Please stop confusing EPS (Electric Power Steering) with some sort of drive-by-wire or steer-by-wire system.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Haven't anything better to do than say "...(Read The F&*king Manual)...", eh?

 

At the risk of getting a warning, why don't you go BITE A ROCK?

 

For the love of Peter, Paul and Mary, what is it with you forum crawlers bent on browbeating people? We're on this thing to discuss what we know, what we think we know, and how we feel about our Corollas. CRAM IT, punk.

 

Oh, and Thanks!

 

 

Geez. Someone has a little sand in their panties, huh? ;)

 

Just so you know, the acronym RTFM is a commonly used expression, especially in industry dealing with contracts and manuals. It's not meant to be derogatory. It's normal practice and just a general statement. Don't take things, especially things on the internet, so personally.

 

My statement still stands. As far as the claim that the doors lock themselves, "I feel this is a simple issue of RTFM".

 

Have a great day!

 

 

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I'm brand new here and saw this topic and the responses thus far and felt compelled to respond. There appears to be so much misinformation ITT.

 

Doors locking themselves:

 

I feel this is a simple issue of RTFM (Read The F&*king Manual). From the owner's manual (Page 35):

 

Security feature

If a door is not opened within approximately 60 seconds after the vehicle is

unlocked, the security feature automatically locks the vehicle again.

 

 

In other words, if the doors are locked, and you press the unlock button on your key fob, the doors will unlock. However, if a door is not opened with 60 seconds of the door being unlocked, the doors will relock themselves. That's how it works. It's impossible that a cell phone could lock the doors. If you have not done so, even if you think you know everything there is to know about your car, pull out the owner's manual and read it cover to cover. I am always surprised at the amount of people who never read their car manuals. It's like someone buys a $10 gadget from the store and will read the manual on how it works, yet the same person buys a $15,000+ machine that has the potential to kill you or someone else if used improperly, and forgoes the manual for some reason. I don't get this.

 

In conclusion, RTFM!

 

 

Electronic Power Steering:

 

READ, electronic power steering is NOT a drive-by-wire, or steer-by-wire system. There is STILL a steering column and shaft directly geared to the rack and pinion drive. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the car to steer itself independently of the steering wheel. IMPOSSIBLE!. Don't believe me? Try this. Pull the negative terminal off the battery (no more electricity), get back in the car, insert key to unlock steering column. Put car in neutral. Magically, you can still steer. OMG! You see, the electronic power ASSIST steering in the corolla is no different than the traditional hydraulic assist in older cars, other than its motive force. Both systems have a hard geared drive from the steering wheel to the rack and pinion. The difference comes in the assist; one is hydraulic and the other is by electric motor. Both systems STILL have direct drive to the steering wheel.

 

So, why does the Corolla wander? This is more of an issue of OVER assisting. Slight movements in the steering wheel are generating larger than desired movements in your lane. Still, the car is not going to steer itself without moving the steering wheel. It simply cannot do so because the steering wheel is geared to the rack and pinion.

 

Please stop confusing EPS (Electric Power Steering) with some sort of drive-by-wire or steer-by-wire system.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Haven't anything better to do than say "...(Read The F&*king Manual)...", eh?

 

At the risk of getting a warning, why don't you go BITE A ROCK?

 

For the love of Peter, Paul and Mary, what is it with you forum crawlers bent on browbeating people? We're on this thing to discuss what we know, what we think we know, and how we feel about our Corollas. CRAM IT, punk.

 

Oh, and Thanks!

 

 

Geez. Someone has a little sand in their panties, huh? ;)

 

Just so you know, the acronym RTFM is a commonly used expression, especially in industry dealing with contracts and manuals. It's not meant to be derogatory. It's normal practice and just a general statement. Don't take things, especially things on the internet, so personally.

 

My statement still stands. As far as the claim that the doors lock themselves, "I feel this is a simple issue of RTFM".

 

Have a great day!

 

 

 

I have a new acronym for YOU: CIP. Read above for the answer. And, you can shove your panties remark, freak.

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