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ijf0

99 Camry Tranny

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Fish-

I feel kinda bad for continuing to post my Camry questions in the corolland forums but geez this is the place i feel most comfortable with the information. I greatly appreciate all your help.

 

I decided it would be best to start a new thread for this trans issue as its rapidly getting worse, not better. :blink:

 

To summarize the previous post (so those reading it for the first time dont have to go back)

1999 Camry bought used (and clearly abused)

1. I started hearing a whine in 5th gear of the manual trans (210,000mi) but didnt think much of it

2. until it started to growl in 5th gear only and only on the drive side of the gearing (not coasting)

3. At Fish's recommendation I changed the gear lube and determined most of the old lube had already leaked out (from a so far unknown location, but i think at the drivers side axle bearing seal)

4. the growling got a little quieter but has not gone away.

 

So yesterday (which was my frist day driving w/ the new lube) I noticed that 2nd gear felt really really sloppy in that gray area between acceleration and coasting ... the car would jump a lot and i could feel a TON of play in the shifter ... every time i would step on or let off the gas the shifter would move (wayyyyy more than ive ever noticed before). other than that, things seemed semi-ok (except for the growling in 5th gear, which is now a little quieter since the tranny has some lube in it)

 

This morning I'm driving to work and w.o thinking much about it i had the car in 5th cruising along at 55 or 60, came to the top of a hill, let off the gas a little ... got toward the bottom of the hill and when i went to accelerate a little the trans had slipped out of 5th gear!!! I shifted it back in and it popped out again almost immediatly. so now (getting a little P.O.ed) i thought, what happens if i hold it in 5th? well, i tried and it went into gear fine, but when i was letting the clutch out i felt the shifter push back a tiny bit and it instantly started grinding the gears (not the growling noise ... but grinding like i had let the clutch up too soon). Can I please drive this car off a cliff!!!???

 

I want my Corolla back ... damn you car theifs! :angry:

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Sounds like it's time for a new or rebuilt transmission. I know of no fix in a bottle for what you describe. Usually when transmissions are popping out of gear it is a sign of internal bushing and/or shaft wear.

 

Good luck,

Jay in MA

 

 

Fish-

I feel kinda bad for continuing to post my Camry questions in the corolland forums but geez this is the place i feel most comfortable with the information. I greatly appreciate all your help.

 

I decided it would be best to start a new thread for this trans issue as its rapidly getting worse, not better. :blink:

 

To summarize the previous post (so those reading it for the first time dont have to go back)

1999 Camry bought used (and clearly abused)

1. I started hearing a whine in 5th gear of the manual trans (210,000mi) but didnt think much of it

2. until it started to growl in 5th gear only and only on the drive side of the gearing (not coasting)

3. At Fish's recommendation I changed the gear lube and determined most of the old lube had already leaked out (from a so far unknown location, but i think at the drivers side axle bearing seal)

4. the growling got a little quieter but has not gone away.

 

So yesterday (which was my frist day driving w/ the new lube) I noticed that 2nd gear felt really really sloppy in that gray area between acceleration and coasting ... the car would jump a lot and i could feel a TON of play in the shifter ... every time i would step on or let off the gas the shifter would move (wayyyyy more than ive ever noticed before). other than that, things seemed semi-ok (except for the growling in 5th gear, which is now a little quieter since the tranny has some lube in it)

 

This morning I'm driving to work and w.o thinking much about it i had the car in 5th cruising along at 55 or 60, came to the top of a hill, let off the gas a little ... got toward the bottom of the hill and when i went to accelerate a little the trans had slipped out of 5th gear!!! I shifted it back in and it popped out again almost immediatly. so now (getting a little P.O.ed) i thought, what happens if i hold it in 5th? well, i tried and it went into gear fine, but when i was letting the clutch out i felt the shifter push back a tiny bit and it instantly started grinding the gears (not the growling noise ... but grinding like i had let the clutch up too soon). Can I please drive this car off a cliff!!!???

 

I want my Corolla back ... damn you car theifs! :angry:

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Corolla, Camry, all about the same, as far as maintenance and general diagnosing - no worries.

 

I'm with TRCar54 on this - transaxle sounds like it is a goner. Sounds like some synchro wear at the very least. Might be bearing and/or shifter fork wear too. Especially at certain engine loads and RPMS, if the synchronizer is internally worn - it will no longer be "tight" enough to keep the transaxle in that gear. I've seen that happen alot on some makes (Mazda, Ford little trucks for me). We used to have a little Mazda truck at the shop - would constantly pop out of 5th. We ended up using a bungie cord and tied the shifter to the dash hand grip to keep it in 5th (not recommended).

 

A short term solution is to try something called a "Scotty Gray" mix for the transaxle. That seems to be well received in many forums as a quick cure all for shifting/transaxle woes for many people. Probably will not "repair" the transaxle, but will help determine if it is a physical issue with teh transaxle vs. a issue with the gear oil.

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Well I think i agree with both of you too ... sounds like internal problems ... likely aggrivated by the apparent slow leak which left me virtually without lube ... wheres the dang idiot light for that? Haha. Cant have everything i guess.

 

I see a few replacement transmissions on car-parts.com listed for only $150 supposedly in "A" condition ... what do you think I'll get? the transaxle housing w/no guts? Seems like a deal too good to be true. I'll call and see what they have to say about it.

 

Thanks guys, for your help. I had a feeling a rebuild/replacement was coming, was hoping differently though.

 

-ijf0

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Could it be that there isn't a huge demand for them...hence the low price?

 

Well I think i agree with both of you too ... sounds like internal problems ... likely aggrivated by the apparent slow leak which left me virtually without lube ... wheres the dang idiot light for that? Haha. Cant have everything i guess.

 

I see a few replacement transmissions on car-parts.com listed for only $150 supposedly in "A" condition ... what do you think I'll get? the transaxle housing w/no guts? Seems like a deal too good to be true. I'll call and see what they have to say about it.

 

Thanks guys, for your help. I had a feeling a rebuild/replacement was coming, was hoping differently though.

 

-ijf0

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Wow, a used tranny in "A" condition for $150, does sound too good to be true. I'd check into that and see what the deal is as I've seen similar deals for other cars - ended up being just the transaxle case - no guts (gears, syncros, nothing at all). That case, won't really help you as we don't know exactly what is damaged in the original transaxle. Call around for rebuilds as well, some have found really good deals on a rebuilds (replace synchros and all bears for parts cost + $200 in labor) - but since yours lost some oil, I'd be worried about a cracked case.

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Well ... i bought one of the cheapo ones (i paid 200 plus shipping) and its here and seems ok ... its still on the skid because its been about 10deg here so i havent opened it up to makesure all the innards are there but it doesnt look as if its been taken apart. I did tinker with the shifter linkages for about 2 minutes and it "feels" like there's gears in tehre. haha. guess i'll find out. I did ask the lady at the junk yard if it was just the case and she confirmed it was the full transmission, gears and all.

 

and yes TRCar, they did say the demand was very low for these.

 

Got any recommendations for removal / reinstall. The Hayens/Chilton's i have has instructions to go from the bottom. I've found what appears to be the factory service manual online and that also has instructions to go from the bottom however i also read through removing the engine/transaxle assm and christ that seems like it would be easier. I dont have a car lift or anything, just two "rhino ramps", a few jackstands and a smallish hydraulic floor jack. I DO however, have an engine crane and stand (after i go pick them up from mom's house some hours away) but like i said, it almost seems easier pull the whole thing out and replace the transaxle outside of the vehicle . .. is that crazy?

 

The timing belt NEEDS to be done also and while I'm at it I might as well replace the seals TRCar was mentioning in the other "few various things" thread.

 

IDK, maybe I'm just not looking forward to crawling around on the ice cold concrete garage floor with about 8 inches of clearance trying to wrestle a tranny down (that sounds bad ... its probably not P.C. either LOL) while keeping the engine "in place"

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IMO, easier to pull the engine/tranny as an entire assembly. But they you have to worry about wiring. plumbing, A/C, etc. - it is a lot of work, but it is so much nicer to get the whole shot out.

 

I've seen them drop the whole works out from below (least amount of work with the above stuff, but also the most dangerous) - if you don't mind spending the time - taking the hood off and pulling it from the top would be the easiest with your equipment. Granted - just pulling the transaxle from there is not too bad either. But I don't relish the though or wrestling with a heavy chunk of metal, on my back, with stuff dropping on me constantly. Floor jacks will help, but still a major pain to do it this way.

 

You can justify it this way - have to pop the axles out anyways with either method. A/C can be bungie corded out of the way (don't have to be opened up at all, if I remember correctly). All wiring makes use of quick couplers or bolts - just have to note the locations of all bolts, screws, brackets you remove. This will also give you a good look at the whole assembly, clean off old dirt and grease to locate leaks, clean out parts that would have been a nightmare to get at before (i.e. EGR). Might have to get creative - may have to take off intake plenum to give you more room - can't remember for sure (thinking back to my own Camry).

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Yeah, just reading through it in the book it seems pulling it from the top is cleaner and less dinking around with certain things like steering assemblies and the like, plus like you said, get to look at the whole thing unobstructed.

 

Anyone got a Corolla I can borrow while the Damry [sic] is "in the shop"? haha

 

BTW, I did get an oil report back and the note the guy wrote me was basically yelling at me for letting it go so long w/o being changed. The iron levels suspended in the oil were SOOOOOOOO high. The oil was basically liquid sand paper.

 

I'm not sure when the lube was changed last ... I know the previous owner said the engine was "new" (he claimed not to remember if it was new or used) around 120k b/c he never had the timing belt changed and thus he had a little accident one day. Duh! I can only assume that the lube would have to have been changed then, so about 80k on the tranny lube and 200k total on the gearing. I remember changing the lube in my Tercel at like 100 plus thou and it coming out looking basically brandy new (i could still see right through it with only a SLIGHT milky haze. But who knows, the guy may not have known how to drive stick and ruined it. My luck that i got stuck with it. Now I have my fingers crossed the timing belt doesnt go before i get it into the garage (Murphy tends to like me a lot).

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oh, i also wanted to say that i was on the camryforums earlier today looking to see if anyone had comments about changing the trans from the top or bottom and I had to get off so quick becuase people were just bashing left and right ... everything from spelling mistakes to asking "bad" questions. I wanted to add so many comments telling peopel just to shut up ... but i refrained and just came back here. haha. Its an interesting line that seems to be drawn between corolla owners and camry owners.

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I know what you mean...we appear to have a more emotionally mature group here. :D Whatever you can't find through a search over there can probably be answered here.

 

Jay in MA

 

oh, i also wanted to say that i was on the camryforums earlier today looking to see if anyone had comments about changing the trans from the top or bottom and I had to get off so quick becuase people were just bashing left and right ... everything from spelling mistakes to asking "bad" questions. I wanted to add so many comments telling peopel just to shut up ... but i refrained and just came back here. haha. Its an interesting line that seems to be drawn between corolla owners and camry owners.

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Hehehe...I got a good chuckle out of that...mostly because I didn't pick up on it until you mentioned it.

 

Have you checked out the labor to do the job at a shop? I was surprised the last time I checked. I believe a clutch replacement for a front wheel drive was $450 to $500. I assume they have to remove the transaxle from the vehicle to do the clutch.

 

Jay in MA

 

...... trying to wrestle a tranny down (that sounds bad ... its probably not P.C. either LOL) while keeping the engine "in place"

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There's a new tranny in there now (well ... one thats got 70k under its belt from another vehicle) and its smooth as butter. New clutch helped with the jumpyness too ... which is a dream to feel like I can drive stick again. The tranny mounts to the frame with 3 bolts (well ... its mounted to the engine too) but 1 of the bolt holes on the tranny was broken. For now 2 bolts seem to be holding it fine (and right now you're asking how a bolt hole could be broken ... well, its really a little appendage of the cast aluminum that broke. Is it aluminum? its soft like aluminum ... ?)

 

Among the other things I replaced while i was in there, the drive shafts were not on the list (neither were their boots or anything) but they had to be added b/c i couldnt figure out how to remove them while they were still in the car. The driver side one eventually popped out (after severe beatings while the engine assembly was on the bench) but on the passenger side I coudlnt get the center bearing to release (after removing the snapring) so I ended up taking the whole bracket off ... to re-assemble I put the bracket/bearing back on and slid the new tranny onto both splines at the same time.

 

I'm glad I'm not a full time mechanic. I think a lot of peoples' cars would have foot dents in the fenders.

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