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ycr99

Grade Of Gas

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im saying that it cant advance timing past a certain point. the ecu comes with one program for 87 octane fuel and that program has maximums and theres also maximums built into the coil packs. i mean that if the ecu says advance timing 20 degrees the coild pack may not be able to do that, theres limits to its range, its not magic.

 

why would toyota make the car do things it doesnt need to do? why would they spend that extra money on a feature it doesnt need and that most drivers would never use or be aware of. also its one more thing to go wrong.

 

your mitsubishi eclipse is different, its a PERFORMANCE car. the corolla is an ECONOBOX, 2 entirely different objectives.

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You said most ECUs don't try to advance timming. What ECU's don't try? Do you have a list? All of them have limits, even mine. Your right, the ECU can only do so much, it has peramitors. If you would have mentioned that in a few post above, we might have been on the same page. I never said that ECUs just keep reaching for the sky and keep tring to advance timming forever.

 

The question is, does 87 octane in a newer Corolla allow the ECU to run optimal on a hot day, or going up a step hill? The Corolla might not be a sports car, but it is a performance engine for what is has and what it does. The Corolla is a damn good performer for having a 1.8l that runs on 87 and gets the fuel economy it does. Making power is easier then making power with good fuel economy. The only way I know to get great fuel economy and have power is to lean a car out as much as possible without knocking. Controling spark timming and fuel injector shot timming is going to make a car run leaner or richer. The car uses sensors to get readings on what is going on. Intake temps and the o2 sensor being the main ones. I don't know what timming the Corolla can max out at on our 05 under load, and I doubt that you do either. So without knowing exacly how the ECU works and what it's limits are, it's stupid to tell a forum that the Corolla doesn't need anything higher then 87 because it's a economy car. 87 is the minimum required. About 5 years ago, you could acually buy 85 octane fuel at Sunoco, but that is the only place I have ever seen anything less then 87 pump, so now days it's probably hard to run the wrong fuel.

 

You are making assumptions that the Corolla can't run better on higher octane fuel because it's a economy car and not a performer. It is a performer, just in a different way. The new Corolla's are rather amazing acually.

 

All I'm saying is don't make assume. You know what happens when you assume? snip happens :)

 

In the heat of summer during heat waves, I'll probably put 89 pump in our Corolla. Cause intake temps play a big roll in knock.

Edited by gvr4ever

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http://corollaperformance.com/TechInfo/1ZZFE.html

 

for the last time, the 1zzfe does not take advantage of higher octane fuels. this is from the mouth of toyota!

 

Compression is a relatively high 10:1, especially considering that the 1ZZ-FE is designed to run on 87-octane gas. Toyota claims no performance benefits from using higher octane fuel, so tuning is probably pretty conservative to avoid detonation. Some power may be hidden away in the ECU if you re-tune it for 92-octane gas. ROM-tuning Toyota ECUs tends to be relatively expensive, but in this case, it may be worth it.

 

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=592500

 

thread about octane and the 1zzfe (in the celica, same motor and same tune as the corolla)

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You said most ECUs don't try to advance timming. What ECU's don't try? Do you have a list? All of them have limits, even mine. Your right, the ECU can only do so much, it has peramitors. If you would have mentioned that in a few post above, we might have been on the same page. I never said that ECUs just keep reaching for the sky and keep tring to advance timming forever.

 

The question is, does 87 octane in a newer Corolla allow the ECU to run optimal on a hot day, or going up a step hill? The Corolla might not be a sports car, but it is a performance engine for what is has and what it does. The Corolla is a damn good performer for having a 1.8l that runs on 87 and gets the fuel economy it does. Making power is easier then making power with good fuel economy. The only way I know to get great fuel economy and have power is to lean a car out as much as possible without knocking. Controling spark timming and fuel injector shot timming is going to make a car run leaner or richer. The car uses sensors to get readings on what is going on. Intake temps and the o2 sensor being the main ones. I don't know what timming the Corolla can max out at on our 05 under load, and I doubt that you do either. So without knowing exacly how the ECU works and what it's limits are, it's stupid to tell a forum that the Corolla doesn't need anything higher then 87 because it's a economy car. 87 is the minimum required. About 5 years ago, you could acually buy 85 octane fuel at Sunoco, but that is the only place I have ever seen anything less then 87 pump, so now days it's probably hard to run the wrong fuel.

 

You are making assumptions that the Corolla can't run better on higher octane fuel because it's a economy car and not a performer. It is a performer, just in a different way. The new Corolla's are rather amazing acually.

 

All I'm saying is don't make assume. You know what happens when you assume? snip happens :)

 

In the heat of summer during heat waves, I'll probably put 89 pump in our Corolla. Cause intake temps play a big roll in knock.

 

You like to argue, don't you?

Why don't you look at some objective data for a change?

http://9thgencorolla.com/forums/viewtopic....6789&highlight=

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Bitter, your doing just as much arguing. This is going to be my last post on the matter since no matter what I say, you just have to be the last person to get something in. The only reason I keep replying is because I belive (in my years of car knowlage, tunning, ect) is that you are giving fulse information. You have very little knowlage of ECUs and knock sensors. I've acually read that link before. It looks like generic software for any car. http://www.qcontinuum.org/obdgauge/index.htm Also, I don't see where it reads knock. Without looking at knock and what the ECU does after knock, you can't really tell what changes the ECU makes during knock.

 

Also, ECUs take awhile to adjust. Unless the person unplugged the battery and let the ECU start out fresh, it could take days to take advantage of changes. I've also said before, I think it would be a complete wast to run 91+ octane. I don't think the Corolla could take full advantage of 91+ as it doesn't have enough compression. 89 octane could acually make a difference, especialy on a hot day, driving up a mountain, ect.

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Bitter, your doing just as much arguing. This is going to be my last post on the matter since no matter what I say, you just have to be the last person to get something in. The only reason I keep replying is because I belive (in my years of car knowlage, tunning, ect) is that you are giving fulse information. You have very little knowlage of ECUs and knock sensors. I've acually read that link before. It looks like generic software for any car. http://www.qcontinuum.org/obdgauge/index.htm Also, I don't see where it reads knock. Without looking at knock and what the ECU does after knock, you can't really tell what changes the ECU makes during knock.

 

Also, ECUs take awhile to adjust. Unless the person unplugged the battery and let the ECU start out fresh, it could take days to take advantage of changes. I've also said before, I think it would be a complete wast to run 91+ octane. I don't think the Corolla could take full advantage of 91+ as it doesn't have enough compression. 89 octane could acually make a difference, especialy on a hot day, driving up a mountain, ect.

the software, while it doesnt appear to monitor knock, does monitor timing. if the ECU was advancing timing with higher octane fuels then it would have showed up on that monitor.

 

 

so what are you saying about the knock sensor? that doesnt pertain to this since the engine would NEVER knock on a higher octane fuel. you werent initially talking about 'on a hot day in the mountains with a head wind' you were saying that the ecu DOES advance timing with higher octane fuel with NO evidence to support your statements. i on the other have HAVE evidence to support my statements from 2 sources.

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Bitter, your doing just as much arguing. This is going to be my last post on the matter since no matter what I say, you just have to be the last person to get something in. The only reason I keep replying is because I belive (in my years of car knowlage, tunning, ect) is that you are giving fulse information. You have very little knowlage of ECUs and knock sensors. I've acually read that link before. It looks like generic software for any car. http://www.qcontinuum.org/obdgauge/index.htm Also, I don't see where it reads knock. Without looking at knock and what the ECU does after knock, you can't really tell what changes the ECU makes during knock.

 

Also, ECUs take awhile to adjust. Unless the person unplugged the battery and let the ECU start out fresh, it could take days to take advantage of changes. I've also said before, I think it would be a complete wast to run 91+ octane. I don't think the Corolla could take full advantage of 91+ as it doesn't have enough compression. 89 octane could acually make a difference, especialy on a hot day, driving up a mountain, ect.

 

Sorry to say, but your reasoning is flowed and defies logic. If your engine, as you claim, performs better with 89 vs 87, why it can't with 91+ vs 87.

 

You actually could be correct in some circumstances as some fuel sold (especially in small, non-frencheese stations) is substandard and if you get lower octanes that you are supposed to. So, if you buy "89" at these joints, the car will run better and MPG could be higher than "87" that could be really 85 or so.

 

My corolla, farting with sulfur smell back in 2003-2004, gave me good ideas what local brands of gas were good and which were bad.

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My owner's manual says to use 87 octane or higher. I use the cheapest gas I can find and that is 87 octane. I don't feel a need to use anything higher. I am satisfied with the way my car runs - it does not knock.

Edited by Bikeman982

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Bitter, your doing just as much arguing. This is going to be my last post on the matter since no matter what I say, you just have to be the last person to get something in. The only reason I keep replying is because I belive (in my years of car knowlage, tunning, ect) is that you are giving fulse information. You have very little knowlage of ECUs and knock sensors. I've acually read that link before. It looks like generic software for any car. http://www.qcontinuum.org/obdgauge/index.htm Also, I don't see where it reads knock. Without looking at knock and what the ECU does after knock, you can't really tell what changes the ECU makes during knock.

 

Also, ECUs take awhile to adjust. Unless the person unplugged the battery and let the ECU start out fresh, it could take days to take advantage of changes. I've also said before, I think it would be a complete wast to run 91+ octane. I don't think the Corolla could take full advantage of 91+ as it doesn't have enough compression. 89 octane could acually make a difference, especialy on a hot day, driving up a mountain, ect.

 

Sorry to say, but your reasoning is flowed and defies logic. If your engine, as you claim, performs better with 89 vs 87, why it can't with 91+ vs 87.

 

You actually could be correct in some circumstances as some fuel sold (especially in small, non-frencheese stations) is substandard and if you get lower octanes that you are supposed to. So, if you buy "89" at these joints, the car will run better and MPG could be higher than "87" that could be really 85 or so.

 

My corolla, farting with sulfur smell back in 2003-2004, gave me good ideas what local brands of gas were good and which were bad.

 

 

First of all, I never said that higher octane fuel made a corolla perform better, I said it was possible due to the fact that the car had a knock sensor. However even the Toyota manual suggest you can use higher octane gas. With the fuel economy that the new Corolla's can get, it is going to take some pretty aggressive ECU software always trying to run as lean as possible without knocking.

 

As far as the 91+ octane question. That doesn't even deserve a answer. You don't know jack snip about engine compression if your going to ask such a stupid question like that.

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You would think that intelligent people such as they would just come to an agreement that they disagree with each other and leave it at that. It is no crime to have a difference of opinion.

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