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allaroc

Crypticlineage Car?

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It's confusing trying to follow two different owners getting similar advice about their different problems. Can 'crypticlineage' start a new post so we can follow his problem?

Many states have consumer agencies that can help in some situations.You can go online and file complaints with the Better Business Bureau about the scummy used car dealer. Some states have links at their atoorney general's site for consumer fraud.

I wouldn't buy anything for the car until you have exhausted all the legal sources. Maybe just oil for now.

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It's confusing trying to follow two different owners getting similar advice about their different problems. Can 'crypticlineage' start a new post so we can follow his problem?

Many states have consumer agencies that can help in some situations.You can go online and file complaints with the Better Business Bureau about the scummy used car dealer. Some states have links at their atoorney general's site for consumer fraud.

I wouldn't buy anything for the car until you have exhausted all the legal sources. Maybe just oil for now.

Maybe crypticlineage can restate the problem?

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Thanks Allaroc & Bikeman for bringing this up. Briefly:

 

SPECS:

 

Toyota Corolla VE 2000

Automatic Transmission: 3 spd.

Purchase odo: 108700

Current odo: 110207

 

1ZZ-FE 1.8L

SAE 10W30 Advance Auto Parts Brand

2 Quarts per 100 miles

 

Octane 89 rating BP Amoco Silver (Always)

Highway MPG: 30 @ 60-75 MPH

 

 

MAJOR PROBLEMS:

 

1. Too much oil consumption: I went to see my gf yesterday (100 miles each way), the car used 1 gallon of oil.

 

2. Considerable power loss on steep roads: Car is slow on acceleration, if I am going at 70 and hit steep road, I drop to at least 50 until I am on flat surface again. This power loss has occurred over time (8 weeks since the car was bought now). Makes me wonder if it is more of a cat problem than engine. My MIL has been on throughout (P0420 code has not gone away after changing both O2 sensors).

 

 

LEGAL ISSUES:

 

1. I talked to a lawyer last week, he thinks the only way I can sue the dealer is if I can prove he had knowledge of the engine problem. We would have to go back to previous owners and hope that they will talk to us and tell if they knew there was a problem and got a bad price on trade-in because of it. This evidence would have to be presented in the small cause court. The lawyer wants $400 to obtain the title history and talking to previous owners. I do not know if its worth spending that much on just finding out if I can sue the dealer, not to mention I dont have that kind of money right now. Perhaps if it is possible for me to obtain the title history from DMV without going through a lawyer (I live in TN), I could pursue this whole thing myself. Any ideas?

 

2. In case the suit has no substantial ground, I will file a complaint with BBB and TN Governer's consumer fraud department. But none of those agencies can bring me my money back, it would be only be useful for future buyers. By the way, I found out that the dealership has one unresolved dispute listed on BBB website. The dealer failed to respond to BBB about a consumer complaint.

 

 

ALTERNATE SOLUTION:

 

In the end, if I cannot get the dealer to buyback the car, I am considering keeping it as it is until it is due for smog test in Dec 06 and invest in swapping the engine, fix the cat problem and keep the car. I was going to make twice the regular payment on the loan to bring the principal down in one year and then trade it off, but I might as well save that money and invest it in swapping the engine. My mechanic (the only good mechanic I found so far) also thinks that I should just swap the engine and keep the car.

 

I think under the circumstances, this would minimize my losses the most. I have already invested six and half grand in it, if I just trade it in I will lose at least four and half grand, and then will have to take another loan. Since I dont have to commute and my driving needs are limited to shopping and a long trip of few hundred miles once or twice a year, the existing car could serve my needs if I fix the problems.

 

Thanks for listening. Comments, suggestions, advice are always welcome.

 

V

Edited by crypticlineage

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Thanks Allaroc & Bikeman for bringing this up. Briefly:

 

MAJOR PROBLEMS:

 

1. Too much oil consumption: I went to see my gf yesterday (100 miles each way), the car used 1 gallon of oil.

 

2. Considerable power loss on steep roads: Car is slow on acceleration, if I am going at 70 and hit steep road, I drop to at least 50 until I am on flat surface again. This power loss has occurred over time (8 weeks since the car was bought now). Makes me wonder if it is more of a cat problem than engine. My MIL has been on throughout (P0420 code has not gone away after changing both O2 sensors).

 

 

LEGAL ISSUES:

 

1. I talked to a lawyer last week, he thinks the only way I can sue the dealer is if I can prove he had knowledge of the engine problem. We would have to go back to previous owners and hope that they will talk to us and tell if they knew there was a problem and got a bad price on trade-in because of it. This evidence would have to be presented in the small cause court. The lawyer wants $400 to obtain the title history and talking to previous owners. I do not know if its worth spending that much on just finding out if I can sue the dealer, not to mention I dont have that kind of money right now. Perhaps if it is possible for me to obtain the title history from DMV without going through a lawyer (I live in TN), I could pursue this whole thing myself. Any ideas?

 

2. In case the suit has no substantial ground, I will file a complaint with BBB and TN Governer's consumer fraud department. But none of those agencies can bring me my money back, it would be only be useful for future buyers. By the way, I found out that the dealership has one unresolved dispute listed on BBB website. The dealer failed to respond to BBB about a consumer complaint.

 

 

ALTERNATE SOLUTION:

 

In the end, if I cannot get the dealer to buyback the car, I am considering keeping it as it is until it is due for smog test in Dec 06 and invest in swapping the engine, fix the cat problem and keep the car. I was going to make twice the regular payment on the loan to bring the principal down in one year and then trade it off, but I might as well save that money and invest it in swapping the engine. My mechanic (the only good mechanic I found so far) also thinks that I should just swap the engine and keep the car.

 

I think under the circumstances, this would minimize my losses the most. I have already invested six and half grand in it, if I just trade it in I will lose at least four and half grand, and then will have to take another loan. Since I dont have to commute and my driving needs are limited to shopping and a long trip of few hundred miles once or twice a year, the existing car could serve my needs if I fix the problems.

 

Thanks for listening. Comments, suggestions, advice are always welcome.

 

V

 

 

You can try your DMV for previous owners but I'm not sure they give out that information without filing a form and paying a small fee.

Carfax might be helpful for the vehicle history.

I don't see how that car passed emissions previously with that much oil consumption. I assume you have looked under the car for leaks? Check your lemon/purchase law in Tn carefully. It may be online.

You could stand on the sidewalk outside the dealer with a big sign saying "I bought a lemon at this dealer". I know personally that something like that gets their attention very quickly.

I would try the cheap stuff first before you spend real money.

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Yes, DMV has a form and fee of $15 for running title history but I dont know if anyone is allowed to do that, or you have to hire legal help to initiate tile history inquiry.

 

Carfax on the vehicle is clean. I checked it before I bought the car. I also registered for carfax buyback guarantee.

 

How car passed the emission is the biggest mystery. I did emission test at 10am, paid dealer at 10.30am, went, filled octane 89 gas, had lunch and as I was driving back home around 12.30, the MIL came on. Called dealer, he said dont worry about it. I was naive, but worried. When I checked it out next day, the code was P0125 and P0420. I remember at the smog test center, the guy on the duty asked me if I worked for the dealership (sounds fishy).

 

There are no leaks, no puddles under the car at any time. Lemon law in TN does not apply to used car purchases.

 

Its funny you brought this up, I have been thinking about standing there holding the got cheated sign, but dont know if there is anything illeagle about it. I am on work visa in the US and do not want to mess up with that under any circumstance.

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I remember your earlier posts of heavy oil consumption - but Wow!! 4 quarts of oil in 200 miles - you, my friend, do not have an oil consumption issue - oil is just running through the car. Engine cannot burn that much oil in that short amount of time without making a massive smoke screen everywhere you drive.

 

The most I've ever burned was 1 quart in 100 miles on a Big Block Mopar running on 7 cylinders, because the motor decided that one cylinder should suck in the valve and bend the push rods on a few other cylinders. The amount of smoke produced was almost comical - like driving down a dirt road (zero visability for hundreds of feet).

 

If the code P0420 is still on there - it might be a problem with the ECT sensor or messed up timing. Both would cause very poor performance. But if you are burning that much oil - a clogged catalytic converter is almost a sure thing. If you decide to keep the car - have a underbody shop cut the cat off and see if the car turns over and runs better. If it does - then you have a clogged cat and need it replaced.

 

As far as the legal road - you might be better off than you expect (documentation is the key). A CARFAX report will help ($15 for single car history) and you can also contact the original owner on your own, if you can still find them. Most of these times - especially with the amount of time that has passed and what you have laready done with the car to get it running for you - you are probably looking at a judgement only for loss of value of the car.

 

In any case - I hope that you are able to find some resolution to this problem. Good Luck.

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Yes, DMV has a form and fee of $15 for running title history but I dont know if anyone is allowed to do that, or you have to hire legal help to initiate tile history inquiry.

 

Carfax on the vehicle is clean. I checked it before I bought the car. I also registered for carfax buyback guarantee.

 

How car passed the emission is the biggest mystery. I did emission test at 10am, paid dealer at 10.30am, went, filled octane 89 gas, had lunch and as I was driving back home around 12.30, the MIL came on. Called dealer, he said dont worry about it. I was naive, but worried. When I checked it out next day, the code was P0125 and P0420. I remember at the smog test center, the guy on the duty asked me if I worked for the dealership (sounds fishy).

 

There are no leaks, no puddles under the car at any time. Lemon law in TN does not apply to used car purchases.

 

Its funny you brought this up, I have been thinking about standing there holding the got cheated sign, but dont know if there is anything illeagle about it. I am on work visa in the US and do not want to mess up with that under any circumstance.

 

I understand your reluctance. Your choices are pretty limited with your circumstances in mind. I guess trying to find a good mechanic it the best way out. Ask your co-workers and neighbors for any suggestions.

 

Make sure the oil filter is tight A leak there would be burned off on the exhaust pipe down below so you would not see leaks unless it was running.

With that much oil being lost, the car should have blue smoke pouring out the exhaust pipe and there is no way it could pass emissions. Contacting your state's attorney general's office to report a possible criminal collusion between the emissions guy and the dealer is possible but it's your decision.

You do have choices but I know your work visa limits you. Good luck!

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I did see blue smoke all the time on the speedway, but nothing that would obscure vision for hundreds of feet behind me. Its still very embarrassing. It is not so noticeable during city driving.

 

The more I think about this whole thing, the more confused and depressed I get. I think probably I am going to end up considering this, "a lesson well learnt" and try to salvage this car by investing a couple of grands into it. On the bright side, I did not spend 10-15 grand on this lemon, because that would have just been impossible to get over.

 

You guys have been real supportive. As I mentioned earlier, apart from my mechanic, here is where I got most information and support. So, thank you. :)

 

Edit: By the way, the car is giving 30 MPG on speedway.

Edited by crypticlineage

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Not to incriminate anyone, but there are people that do emission (smog) checks in California that can make any car pass. Even with it burning oil and not running well, it could pass. Some people have unscrupulously done it just to pass it prior to a sale. Then the problem becomes the new owner's problem. If it was my car, I would spend the money on getting it fixed, instead of pursuing legal retribution. If you are burning that much oil, chances are the rings are shot and your mechanic would be able to fix it. As long as the car is still running and it is just using a lot of oil, it is a fixable engine. Your good gas mileage is another reason to keep the car. Hope this helps.

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He could also just have a major oil leak too. Is no oil left on the ground? This might sound really stupid, but check your PVC valve too. You just take it out and make sure the little ball on the end of it can move and that it's not stuck open.

 

I just have a hard time seeing that much oil blowing past the rings. I think the car would have trouble starting due to low compression and I think it would be as slow as a turtle.

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What is a PVC valve? Where is it located? How can I check it?

 

No there is no oil left on the ground.

 

The car does not have much power on steep roads as I mentioned before, but its definitely not as slow as a turtle. It accelerates slow but I can take it upto even 80 (although it makes me very nervous), and it has no trouble staying at 70 unless its a steep road.

 

I would like to test this hypothesis:

 

Engine has minimal wear, oil leaking somewhere, e.g. PVC (or is it PCV) valve like you mentioned. The loss of power/performance is due to cat going bad overtime. When I test drove the car, it had very sensitive acceleration, the moment I press the gas pedal, car would jump. This power went down over time. I couldn't imagine the engine going bad within 8 weeks.

 

Who is the culprit: Worn engine, bad cat, or a big leak happening only during driving.

 

Help me solve :)

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PCV valve - Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve. A basic emission control device that returns unburned blowby gases back into the intake manifold. Also helps remove moisture from the oil - extending its lifespan and reduce the chance of "sludging".

 

Here's a pic for location:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/fis...01/PCVvalve.jpg

 

Once you take it off (your car has a plastic engine cover that may need to be removed for you to get at the valve). Need a pretty good sized socket or open end wrench to take it off (22mm or 24mm) - if it makes a rattling noise when removed and air passes cylinder head side to mainfold side and blocked coming the other way - then it is OK. But those things are cheap enough that it is easier to replacement every other year or 30K miles ~$4 to $5.

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Cheap fix check. The PVC valve. If it isn't working right, too much oil can get back in to your intake, clog your plugs, clog your cat, your intake manifold, your TB plate (that can cause idle problems), and all the above can slow your car down.

 

I would do a compression check too, but I wouldn't be surprized if it was acually a little high due to oil being on the intake side of the pistons as well as the crank side. If it's too low, your car wouldn't even start. You could get too much blow by, and the explosen wouldn't be trapped enough to push the piston.

 

Years ago I test drove a Galant VR4 and some slimy dealer. Smoke was pouring out the tail pipe and without really even looking at it, we just walked away. I figured at the time, it was a bad turbo or valve seals. Later I met the guy who bought it and a cheap ###### PVC valve was the fix.

 

Overall, even with a poorly taken care Corolla, I just can't see the pistons rings being dammaged so badly, that lots and lots of blow by on the piston rings accures. Rings usually get destroyed from knock causing them to burn up, or running dry of oil. My sister in law who is the worst car owner I have ever met in my life NEVER changes her oil. I acually checked her oil a few weeks ago and the oil on the dip stick was well below the low mark. On top of that, the oil looked like it just came out of the ground. It was BLACK. Now for a quick fix, I just added oil. It was two quarts low and then I took the car out for a drive and it acually drove pretty decent.

This is a late 80s early 90s Corolla too. Lots of car, very little love, and it still runs and some how does a good job of running. It starts up right away too.

 

Check for a oil soaked intake to the TB, and oil soaked spark plugs.

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maybe it would help with some specifics such as:

Year, model, mileage,stick or auto.

weight of oil, brand, consumption rate, quarts per mile.

 

it just seems to me to be a very high loss rate . Are you using 10/30 or 10/40 oil?

You are getting good ideas from the guys on the forum so keep in touch.

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