[corollarocks]

I have a 95 Corolla that started to miss a little when I was driving it and then it started to have trouble at stop lights and at stop signs. It would run roughly and it would even stall. After the stall it would start right up again but when I tried to exellerate after it didn't want to go. It would just chug and not get over 20 mph and then would go a few blocks or a dozen feet and then it would stall again. Then you might start it again and it might do the same thing or it might just go like there was nothing wrong with it until the next stop light or stop sign. I got a new fuel fitler and a guy cleaned the manifold (I think it was the exhaust manifold) and he thought it was bad gas. After he thought it was bad gas I used it for a week or so making sure I kept it full with high grade gas and it seemed to get better but then I let it go down to a little below a half a tank and filled it at a different gas station than I got the "bad gas" and it got considerably worse. It seems to go well in the morning when it has had a rest and it goes okay to work...1.2 miles but if it goes any further I almost get stranded (sometimes do). Earlier today I just went about 8 miles and it stalled out about 12-15 times. That is about 4 places it stalled and about 1-6 times I tried to start it at each place. Sometimes it only goes about 4 feet before it stalls again. The feeling is that maybe it isn't getting the gas or air properly but I really dont' know that is just what people here have said. Any thoughts? My car is too old for the codes....I tried that. Thanks

[Bikeman982]

corollarocks, on May 15 2009, 08:17 PM, said:

I have a 95 Corolla that started to miss a little when I was driving it and then it started to have trouble at stop lights and at stop signs. It would run roughly and it would even stall. After the stall it would start right up again but when I tried to exellerate after it didn't want to go. It would just chug and not get over 20 mph and then would go a few blocks or a dozen feet and then it would stall again. Then you might start it again and it might do the same thing or it might just go like there was nothing wrong with it until the next stop light or stop sign. I got a new fuel fitler and a guy cleaned the manifold (I think it was the exhaust manifold) and he thought it was bad gas. After he thought it was bad gas I used it for a week or so making sure I kept it full with high grade gas and it seemed to get better but then I let it go down to a little below a half a tank and filled it at a different gas station than I got the "bad gas" and it got considerably worse. It seems to go well in the morning when it has had a rest and it goes okay to work...1.2 miles but if it goes any further I almost get stranded (sometimes do). Earlier today I just went about 8 miles and it stalled out about 12-15 times. That is about 4 places it stalled and about 1-6 times I tried to start it at each place. Sometimes it only goes about 4 feet before it stalls again. The feeling is that maybe it isn't getting the gas or air properly but I really dont' know that is just what people here have said. Any thoughts? My car is too old for the codes....I tried that. Thanks

Do you get the "Check Engine Light" (CEL)??
You can connect the E1 and the TE1 contacts on the diagnostic plug and then read the flashes of the CEL on the instrument cluster to get a code.
The code will tell what system is malfunctioning.

[Ghost]

Could be the Idle Air Control valve.
Or may be the fuel pump if it's 14 years old.

Try checking the air filter first, it's the easiest and a good place to start when diagnosing air flow issues.

[Bikeman982]

Could be anything from a fuel problem to an electrical problem.
Fuel might be clogged injectors, filter, lines, etc.
Electrical could be spark plugs, wires, distributor, etc.

[corollarocks]

Do you get the "Check Engine Light" (CEL)??
You can connect the E1 and the TE1 contacts on the diagnostic plug and then read the flashes of the CEL on the instrument cluster to get a code.
The code will tell what system is malfunctioning.


The check engine light does not come on and I went in to ask about the codes and they said my car was made too early in 1995 to have the codes.

[fishexpo101]

I'd go to another shop - even though your car was made before OBD-II, it still has a built in OBD diagnostic program. Just not as "detailed" as the newer OBD-II. Even though a CEL is not on, there could be trouble codes stored in the ECM that might prove to be useful.

Here is a link to how to do it visually, Bike already mentioned what pins to short to run the diagnostics.

http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota/

The place that you got the bad gas from, I would just avoid. You don't need to make the problem any worse, until you find out what is exactly wrong with the car.

Definitely have some fuel or fire issue, could be both. Could be anything from not getting fuel like (some previously mentioned):
- bad fuel pump
- bad gas
- bad fuel pressure regulator
- clogged or damaged fuel filter
- leaky fuel injector log
- clogged fuel injectors or bad fuel injectors
- kinked or damaged fuel line
- bad signal wire from ECM to injectors
- etc.

Could also be an ignition issue:
- worn or bad plugs
- worn or faulty plug wires
- worn or faulty cap and rotor
- damaged coil packs
- bad signal wire from ECM to igniter (coil)
- etc.

General wiring issues / excessive electrical noises / poor chassis ground or ground loops present, clogged IAC valve in throttle body, clogged EGV valve/vacuum modulator, leaky PCV valve, loose or missing vacuum hoses / huge vacuum leak, clogged air filter, charging system is faulty, mechanical issue with engine, shifted timing, bad timing, bad or faulty knock sensor, throttbody issue (electrical and mechanical), intake restriction, exhaust restriction, etc.

Need a little more information:

- When did this problem start?
- Did it start suddenly, or was it a more gradual process?
- When you ran it on the premium gas - did it stall at all?
- What is the maintenance history of the car?
- What have you changed at this point / parts wise on the car? Any new aftermarket additions / modifications?
- When it stalls, do you notice anything unusual? Burning smell, fuel odor, excessive smoke from tailpipe, etc.?
- Did any of the mechanics "read" the spark plugs (should have been one of the first things they did)? What did they check exactly?
- How is the car otherwise? Starts OK, any oil consumption?

[corollarocks]

Need a little more information:

- When did this problem start? A couple of months ago, my car started to just miss a beat in the idling every now and then- hardly ever. Then maybe three weeks ago I went into Tyler (about 50 miles r/t) and it started running really really bad and stalled out a couple of times. It seemed to be a fuel problem to me but I don't know much about cars. It seemed like it wanted to go but it was getting choked out. I had recently bought gas gut was almost out again so I stopped to get some thinking it might dilute the gas and maybe help unclog a fuel filter if those were the problems. On the way home it stalled out at a traffic light and wouldn't go again (although it would start fine, it wouldn't go). When someone came to rescue us, it started right up (about a 45 minute wait) and then went for about 4 miles and then did it again at a traffic light. After we pushed it off the road, we waited about 10 minutes and it seemed it would go for awhile again but when I got back on the road, it sputtered and spurted and never really got going and stalled about two blocks down the road. From there, we towed it home. There is a friend who is a good mechanic who looked at it. He cleaned the intake manifold and changed the fuel filter which he said didn't look bad. He said it could be a lot of things and but the best he could figure was that it was bad gas and that I should use the highest grade gas and keep it full and put some injector cleaner in it. After that, I ran around in it for the next couple of weeks. I only went to Tyler once in that time and thought I was going to get stranded again because it stalled at lights several times but it always ran well once I started it up again. When I went to Lindale, our closest town (about 14 miles- r/t) I would stall about twice a trip. I noticed that it was best not to give it lots of gas to try to keep it running but if it started to act like it would stall at a light, just let it. Many times it wouldn't but if it did, I waited for the light to change and would start it back up and push lightly on the gas and it would go. It was much more successful than trying to give it lots of gas to try to make it not stall and giving it lots of gas to get it going when the light changed. I avoided all of my regular places that I got gas before so I didn't get more of the bad gas, if it was that. It started to run better so I actually let the gas go down to about 3/8 of a tank of gas about five days ago since I figured it was bad gas and it must have mostly worked its way out but when I filled it up again- high grade, I barely made it home and have had many problems since that time as described above. I only work 1.2 miles from my home so I have no problems going back and forth to work but really can't go anywhere else.
- Did it start suddenly, or was it a more gradual process? see above.
- When you ran it on the premium gas - did it stall at all? yes but not as much until recently.
- What is the maintenance history of the car? I try to do all of the regular maintenance. I think I was late once on oil and late once on transmission fluid but pretty good on other stuff. Timing belt need changed in about 5,000 miles, about time for transmission fluid again, just did tune up and spark plugs a few month ago. I don't know if some of the stuff has been done like steering and suspension check, fuel system checks, evaporative emissions control system check, valve clearance check. I usually tell them to check all of that but they say..you don't need that for some of them.
- What have you changed at this point / parts wise on the car? Any new aftermarket additions / modifications? besides regular maintenance, the only thing I have changed is the alternator. Don't remember if that was aftermarket but it hasn't been that recent. The car normally runs well. Although about a year ago it started to run a little hotter and started to burn some oil...around the same time as the alternator needed replaced.
- When it stalls, do you notice anything unusual? Burning smell, fuel odor, excessive smoke from tailpipe, etc.? Not much burning smell but did notice it maybe once or twice. Fuel odor once (figured it might have flooded some since it was after multiple starts). No smoke that I noticed.
- Did any of the mechanics "read" the spark plugs (should have been one of the first things they did)? What did they check exactly? Mechanic says they are too new to read. What they checked is above.
- How is the car otherwise? Starts OK, any oil consumption? Great car. Starts well and runs well normally except what I have already mentioned. Oil consumption is more than it had been in the past. I used to never have to add oil between oil changes. In the last year, I add oil about every 1,500 miles and it is down about 1/2 way on the dip stick. I also think it is using more gas since this stalling problem started but might not be. My car used to run about 3/8 of the way up on the tempurature gauge but in the last several years, it has barely moved. I asked about it at several mechanics and they said if it moves, don't worry about it. Anyway, since the stalling problem began, it is back to the 3/8 range. I don't know if this means that is just started working again or if my car is running somewhat hot. It doesn't seem to be overheating though.

[corollarocks]

Oh, yeah, I will try to get the codes checked again. My friend said he would check online to see how to do it.

[fishexpo101]

Hmm.

Everything seems to be OK except for the running hot/cool. Most of the time, the temperature gauge should be in the middle or just a hair under - unfortunantly, the OEM guage doesn't have enough resolution to be real useful. If it is running too cool or too hot - the ECM will normally adjust the duration for more or less gasoline.

If it gets confused or gets a wrong reading - you could get cases of:
- an excessive amount of fuel = rich air/fuel mix and the car could stall, hesitate
- too little fuel injected = lean air/fuel mix and the car will again not have enough gasoline, stumble

Replacement alternator is another possibility - the fuel injection system is pretty sensitive to electrical noise and can put a decent load on the charging system. If the alternator isn't quite up to making juice or its voltage regulation is poor - would cause all sorts of headaches. Same goes for a bad or weak battery.

Could be an issue with the TPS sensor on the throttle body - could be reading incorrectly, causing the ECM to add or remove too much fuel. Could be an issue with the IAC valve, not letting enough bypass air past the throttle plate. A good throttle body cleaning may help with the latter. TPS sensor can be checked with a multimeter - may be need of an adjustment. Can be a good DIY project, need a high impedance multimeter, vacuum pump, set of feeler guages, easier to get at if the TB was removed. Though I would check the other stuff first - before I open up the TPS sensor.

You already did the plugs, have you checked the wires? Cap and rotor? Open it up and note any erosion or carbon tracking. Fuel pump not getting power or if it is dying could cause this issue. Fuel pressure regulator - if jammed, could bleed away fuel pressure in the injector log. Issues with any of them could cause the car to run for a little bit then die, restarting will repressurize the log, and run for a little bit before it dies again. Would also cause the car to immediately stall when trying to accelerate.

Ignition coils - they can be checked out with a multimeter. Try checking them both cold and hot - might be something faulty with the wiring causing it to die after running for a little bit. Misfires would also cause the engine to run "hot" as the ECM will see too much fuel/not enough oxygen and lean out the mix, which tends to raise the temp (higher combustion temperatures).

Injectors themselves could be bad - if one or more of the injectors were dying (sticking) - then it would also explain your stalling situtation. You can do a quick audible check - use a mechanic's stethoscope or similar to listen to the telltale ticking noises of working injectors - if one of them sounds uneven, missing ticks - it could be a sign of a dying injector.

Could have "hot spots" in the engine - either a burned valve, worn valve seat, heavy carbon deposits inside the combustion chamber. The results of using higher octane resulting in slightly better driveablity sort of points to this being a possible issue. Since it is getting worse, means that the buildup is getting worse. On some cars - running higher octane may cause more carbon to build up or build up at a faster rate. But that is usually from cumulative use over several years - the amount of time you have been running it shouldn't have done anything like this.

One thing I forgot to ask is if the car stalls from a standing start, ie, from a cold start or a warm restart after the car stalls - if you are not moving, just at idle - will the car still stall? If it doesn't stall - try gunning the gas while it is running in park (automatic transaxle) or neutral (manual transaxle). See if the engine stalls at speed. If it doesn't might indicate a load dependancy that could point us in the right direction.

[corollarocks]

I did have the wires and cap and rotor all changed out when I got the new plugs. My friend reminded me that he changed them out. As far as stalling issues, I never have problems from a cold start in the morning. It almost never stalls when it is standing. I can't say never because I can't remember for sure but I think it may have stalled a time or two when was in park at a traffic light but mostly, it does it when I put it into drive or reverse. While I run it in park or neutral, I can give it gas and it will not stall. It is very tempermental. Once it gets warmer (driving 5 or so miles), it could just drive you right where you want to go with no problems or it could take you four feet. You can start it seven times and not know if the next one is that one that will take you right there. If you breakdown you can have someone come and get you and when you go back several hours later to pick it up, it will drive straight home with no problems (since it is cooled down then).

[corollarocks]

Sorry for taking so long in getting back to you. I was out of town. My friend came over to take a look at the codes tonight and there was a continous blink which supposedly means that it is in good working order.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. You have been very helpful. I will keep you posted as I find out what the problem is.

[corollarocks]

I took my car to the shop today and they said that from the tests that they ran, it seems like it is the distributor. What do you guys think? Would that make sense that it could be that?

[AlaricD]

corollarocks, on May 28 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

I took my car to the shop today and they said that from the tests that they ran, it seems like it is the distributor. What do you guys think? Would that make sense that it could be that?

It's most likely an ignition problem. I expect it's the Hall Effect sensor under the distributor cap (which replaced the old points and condensor system). As the engine warms up, that part gets hot and soon stops being able to detect when the rotor is turning.

This is easily checked with an ohmmeter and canned compressed air.

When the engine fails to run, check the resistance of the hall effect sensor while cranking the engine. The resistance should go up and down as the engine cranks (due to the magnet on the rotor passing by the sensor). If it stays at "infinite", then blast it with the canned compressed air (but hold the can upside-down to let the liquid run out on it). This will chill the part rapidly and you may find that the resistance once again fluctuates with the car being cranked.

As for mechanics saying "it's bad gas, use a higher grade gas"-- that's ridiculous. Higher octane gas is the same quality of fuel as lower octane. It is not more pure than the lower octane counterpart unless there is a problem with the tank the 'bad' gas is being stored in. If you suspect bad gas, get the SAME grade gas of a different brand from a different fuel station, as the station you are at may have leaking tanks that not only leak fuel out but allow water and other contaminants in. Once you've run a tankful or so of this different gasoline through, then change the fuel filter.

However, I expect it's been the ignition system all along.

This post has been edited by AlaricD: 02 June 2009 - 12:46 PM

[Crusier Head]

corollarocks, on 28 May 2009 - 04:26 PM, said:

I took my car to the shop today and they said that from the tests that they ran, it seems like it is the distributor. What do you guys think? Would that make sense that it could be that?

Did you ever figure out what the problem was? I have the exact same problem and I have been fighting it for months.

[AlaricD]

 Crusier Head, on 31 October 2009 - 02:00 PM, said:

Did you ever figure out what the problem was? I have the exact same problem and I have been fighting it for months.

It's not clear if he's tried my suggestion regarding the Hall Effect sensor, but maybe that's something you could pursue on your own vehicle.