Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

P1349 Keeps Coming Back


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#1 commuter1

commuter1

    1st Gear

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:26 AM

I have a 2001 Corolla with about 120,000 miles (highway).

About a year ago, it started pinging badly up hills, even at highway speeds.

The Toyota dealer suggested I try premium gas. That's when the check engine light started coming on, although the pinging was much less.

Ever since I've been having the check engine light come on.

I switched back to regular gas, have been adding Techron and Seafoam at regular intervals, changed air filter at regular intervals and had the plugs changed at 90,000miles.

The code that keeps coming back is: P1349: manfacturer contrl. ignition system or misfire. I did have a second code about a month ago about the catalytic converter and so I had that changed and that code went away. Now, the CEL comes back on after being reset every 3 or 4 tankfulls of gas. Half of the time I fill up on Chevron regular gas.

Can I fix this myself?

Edited by commuter1, 28 January 2005 - 11:28 AM.

#2 fishexpo101

fishexpo101

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words...

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,478 posts

Posted 01 February 2005 - 03:28 PM

With that many miles - pinging on regular gas on heavy loads (hills, high speed, etc) with that the 1ZZFE high CR - can sometimes be fixed by going with a higher grade gas. As a motor ages - there will be deposits that form that may necessitate a higher octane.

P1349 is a misfire or ignition issue under most general OBD-II - but Toyota spec'd OBD-II has it as a VVT malfunction. Unfortunantly - hard to tell which it is. Since it happened when you switched gas and after a bad cat - might be the ignition timing set too advanced (VVT-i issue) or low fuel pressure (bad or clogged injector, bad or low flowing fuel pump/regulator). An emissions test will tell you which one it is - with taking anything off the car, or a scanner put on aquisition mode and recording several parameters to see what the deal is. Other things could cause these same problems - but given what people reported having problems on these forums and the pinging issue - I'd lean toward the injectors giving you problems.

Seafoam and other additives are very good solvents - but may not be strong enough to clean off these injectors. Injector cleaning services generally don't work that well - best way is to have these cleaned ultrasonically or replaced (very costly).

Some pinging is normal and unavoidable - but sustained heavy pinging at highway speeds will quickly ruin a motor.

Can you fix it yourself - depends on what tools you have available and how much experience you have under the hood. I'd say that 90% of the time - you should be able to DIY. As long as you have decent documentation and correct tools - this is completely doable.

Good Luck.

#3 commuter1

commuter1

    1st Gear

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 04 February 2005 - 10:39 AM

Someone also said it was a VVT malfunction, but my car is way out of the warranty period.

How much is something like that going to cost me? <_<

#4 fishexpo101

fishexpo101

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words...

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,478 posts

Posted 04 February 2005 - 11:16 AM

Hard to say - depends on the what is wrong. There was an issue for the oil control solenoid on the VVT system - but I'm unable to find a link for you. If you search the site - there was a poster, bwringer, that worked on the VVT system.

Most dealers will change around $80 for diagnostics and anywhere from $50-$85 per hour for labor. Could be an expensive proposition - I would exhaust other possibilities before I go down that road.

Good Luck.

#5 commuter1

commuter1

    1st Gear

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 04 February 2005 - 12:10 PM

Do you think buying a subscription to AllData to get a copy of the TSB is worth the money?

Is there a difference buying premium gas versus using the gas additives to boost the octane rating?

Thanks.

#6 fishexpo101

fishexpo101

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words...

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,478 posts

Posted 04 February 2005 - 12:18 PM

ALLDATA is a good resource for DIY. A good deal if you don't have access to a Toyota service manual or can't find one - worth the money?? only if you use it. Not sure what the TSB will give you - since I haven't seen Toyota take any action on this problem (VVTL-i systime issue is a different story).

Buying premium gas to help with the pinging is much cheaper than buying additives that boost ratings. There are additives that supposed to add more detergency as well as boost the octane - but most are very similar to what is in gas already. Better to stick with "Top Tier" gas outlets - higher levels of additives than what the EPA demands. Also read over the gas quality post here on this forum - good info it that.

#7 001010

001010

    Neutral

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 18 October 2008 - 01:56 PM

I have a 2000 Corolla with 112K miles on it. I recently, (about 3 months ago) noticed a significant change in its behavior. Before, not that it was the best for the vehicle, I could run it at 80, 90, even 115 mph and it would run Great!! Now, when I take it anything above 50 it feels like its going to give out any moment. I noticed that this problem started occuring as soon as the belts started giving me trouble. (One day they began to squeek and I was never able to fix that problem.) Its not that the belt is bad, its actually in pretty good condition

Im not sure about the markings shown at the blue circles, but as you can see by the red circles, the belt condition really isnt bad.
Posted Image
I was told by several mechanics that the pulley has probably gone bad, which confuses me becasue it was litterally overnight that the problem started occuring. One main problem that I have is that the engine will ping when in idle. It also pings if I am slowly accelerating. It has shut off on me when accelerating (many times), but after I changed the fuel pump filter, the problem with the pinging hasnt gone away, but the stalling hasnt recurred. I also noticed that (While doing a Uturn) the car has lost a LOT of power while making hard turns. Also, going on the upramp to the expressway, the engine is VERY weak.
One more thing, that may or may not be significant, is when I am driving doing anything above 40mph, if I turn the AC on, the car litterally bumps from loss of power, and when I turn the AC back off, it bumps again, only with Significant power increase.

Also, the Check Engine light has been comming on for about 2 months now with the P1349 code.

The car changes gears wonderfully and everything else is pretty much OK.

Does anyone have any helpful info about this??

#8 fishexpo101

fishexpo101

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words...

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,478 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 08:32 AM

Definitely sounds like a VVTi malfunction. If you get a P1349 that comes back, even after it is reset the first time around - and you notice significant power loss. Sounds like the oil control valve is faulty or the actual VVTi actuating assembly is faulty. Really no easy way to look at it until you open the engine up. There is a TSB that (TSB EG009-03) addresses this issue on certain models of Corolla, Celica, MR2 and Echo models built before a certain production change. This will be covered in the manufacturer 5/60 powertrain warranty, if you outside of the warranty, the tab falls onto you.

This is not an inexpensive fix - though if you have a decent handle on a wrench and a good service manual infront of you - you could be able to fix this yourself. Think of a P1349 problem as an engine that is not able to advance engine timing as needed or one that has the inital engine timing set too far advanced or too far retarded - all will result in poor performance. Some cases, the problem will be very minor - you just get some light off idle pinging. Some cases, the problems are so severe - the engine cannot maintain idle or will only run at idle speeds.

You can try sending a used motor oil sample to a lab and see if the oil comes back OK. If there are signs of coolant in the oil, high concentrations of wear metals, or the oil has completely broken down - you may be better off looking at an engine swap or dumping the car all to together. Not a real common issue - one of those things that some have the unfortunant luck to have and is also one of those things that is an expensive fix.

Could try some synthetic motor oils changed at a relatively short change interval (3K-5K drain interval) - the higher solvency of the synthetic will slowly dissolve deposits that might have clogged the oil control valve and maybe be able to reverse the situation with the VVTi system. I'd hold engine flushes and the like for last - as these tend to have a terminal result in engines that have serious problems. Good Luck.

#9 Stephen

Stephen

    Neutral

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 02 February 2009 - 05:55 AM

I also have a P1349 error on my Corolla.
I have had an engine flush and a oil and filter change, but it still comes back. The dealership has now recomended replacing the controller at a price of approx. 300. I'm not sure if there really is a problem with the car as the performance seems fine to me and so I am a bit reluctant to spend this sum of money just to remove a light fault which is coming on in my car.
Any ideas?

Regards Stephen

#10 fishexpo101

fishexpo101

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words...

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,478 posts

Posted 02 February 2009 - 10:00 AM

Did the dealership replace the oil control valve filter? Unless the engine was significantly sludged over or had known oil issues (infrequent oil changes or poor maintenance) - then there is a good chance an engine flush has loosened deposits and completely clogged up the VVT actuator and associated components. Best to do short interval oil changes with a motor oil with good solvency (stronger detergents and dispersants) characterists

There is a technical service bulletin or TSB on this issue - TSB EG009-03 - that describes a troubleshooting procedure. But I'm not sure if it applies to your market Corolla. The TSB came about in 2003 and addresses this error code in certain production number Corollas, Celicas, MR2s, and Echos.

#11 Stephen

Stephen

    Neutral

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 02 February 2009 - 02:42 PM

Thanks for the info.
I'm not sure if the dealership eplaced the Oil Control Valve. I would say not, otherwise they should have told me.
After the first visit they did tell me the oil was dirty have should be replaced as well as a new oil filter. This has now been done, but the fault re-appears. A friend of mine gave me his diagnostic kit and I can confirm that the error code is 1349. However, I haven't noticed any problems with the car and as I say I am not sure if I should replace a controller just to prevent a light coming on.

With regard to the technical bulletin my car came out in 2003 so I am not sure if it applies.
Any more ideas would be greatly welcomed.


Did the dealership replace the oil control valve filter? Unless the engine was significantly sludged over or had known oil issues (infrequent oil changes or poor maintenance) - then there is a good chance an engine flush has loosened deposits and completely clogged up the VVT actuator and associated components. Best to do short interval oil changes with a motor oil with good solvency (stronger detergents and dispersants) characterists

There is a technical service bulletin or TSB on this issue - TSB EG009-03 - that describes a troubleshooting procedure. But I'm not sure if it applies to your market Corolla. The TSB came about in 2003 and addresses this error code in certain production number Corollas, Celicas, MR2s, and Echos.


#12 fishexpo101

fishexpo101

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words...

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,478 posts

Posted 02 February 2009 - 04:54 PM

The oil control valve and the VVT actuator is pretty expensive, I would definitely not replace those until all other options have been explored first - but there is a small oil filter screen that runs to the valve. If that filter is clogged - you could get the P1394 code.

Being a 2003 model and UK or European market? - that TSB probably can't really help you - as those were addressed for the newer generation.

Could be one of those sensor "glitches" that will eventually go away. If you really did a VVTi malfunction - the engine should "ping" badly under load, have trouble keeping an idle, and overall drive poorly. Fuel economy will also drop considerably. If none of those happens - you may have an electrical issue. Very likely that there are some faulty engine/chassis grounds or a damaged wiring to the ECM, causing it to believe a sensor/system is failing.

#13 kabhikabhi

kabhikabhi

    Neutral

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 26 February 2009 - 04:01 PM

Hi 'Fishexpo101',

I read all the replies from you on 1349 code. And have some idea on what to do with my corolla which is having similar issue. But before I do anything, I would like to explain you my situation and hope that you can inform me more specifically.

Car Details: 2001 Toyota Corolla CE. Mileage - 142500 Miles.
Recent Services:
Regular Oil Change since last 12 months. (Though Last Two were Delayed.)
Transmission Flush in Feb 2009
Battery Result - Good
Emission Flush, Engine Tune Up and Spark Plug changed in July 2008

For nearly 1.5-2 years I used to use local gas company (DELTA - cheapest gas). Stopped using them when i found out that they mix water in Gas :( Now I use regular gas from Shell, BP etc

Jun 2006: Engine Check was On. Mechanic removed it citing code for Catalytic Convertor. Car cleared the Inspection and have been driving fine until Oct 2008. Note: I didn't change the Catalytic Convertor. In between I was using the cheap gas as mentioned above and got the above services done.

Oct 2008: Engine Check Comes up again. Mechanic mentioned again Cat Convertor Code. Kept the change on Hold. with the onset of winter car starts giving trouble during start up in early morning. Battery is in Good Conditioned (got it checked). Sometimes car doesn't start at all even after I turn the key full. Note: all the lights in the dashboard blink perfectly when i insert the key. Problem is in ignition of the car. the only good new is that car drives fine once it starts. Car runs perfectly at all speeds (max tried is 80 mph).

Feb 2009: I took the car for another round of check up for engine check sign. This time mechanic says there are two codes - one for catalytic convertor and second one for p1349 - VVT malfunction.
After seeing the code gave me a quote of $220 to correct the p1349 code. My concern is, after reading your all your posts, i think my mechanic needs to investigate more to find the actual cause. I'm worried he may charge me more later citing more parts need to be replaced.

So now, i seek your advice on should i go ahead and try to do first level of diagnosis by myself? If yes then what steps you will recommend. From where can I get the TSB for 1349? I'm a computer engineer with intuitive nature to solve problem so have basic tool kit with me. but dont have anything extra need as car mechanic.

thanking you in anticipation.

- Abhi.


The oil control valve and the VVT actuator is pretty expensive, I would definitely not replace those until all other options have been explored first - but there is a small oil filter screen that runs to the valve. If that filter is clogged - you could get the P1394 code.

Being a 2003 model and UK or European market? - that TSB probably can't really help you - as those were addressed for the newer generation.

Could be one of those sensor "glitches" that will eventually go away. If you really did a VVTi malfunction - the engine should "ping" badly under load, have trouble keeping an idle, and overall drive poorly. Fuel economy will also drop considerably. If none of those happens - you may have an electrical issue. Very likely that there are some faulty engine/chassis grounds or a damaged wiring to the ECM, causing it to believe a sensor/system is failing.


#14 fishexpo101

fishexpo101

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words...

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,478 posts

Posted 26 February 2009 - 04:49 PM

Do you know what the Catalytic code was? I'm assuming that it was P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold. Given the amount of time between those occurances, I would chalk this up to the ECM getting confused/bad tank of gasoline. Only way to know for sure is to backprobe the O2 sensors (both the upstream (pre-cat) and downstream (post-cat) sensors) and verify their output traces on a meter, preferably an oscope. This assumes that the sensors are working correctly, as it is common at this age/mileage to have a sensor start to get "lazy" or not quite fail or slowly fail on you.

You are correct in that these OBD-II codes only indicate logic failure in the ECM - they do not specifically say what part is faulty. The ECM can only ascertain failure (either directly or indirectly) from other sensor inputs. The code just tells the mechanic where to start looking. There are cases where a certain code on a certain model year is indicative of a common failure. The mechanic still has to do some diagnostic work to confirm his suspicions before any part is replaced. Also possible that the two codes might be interlinked - a possible VVT issue caused the initial P0420 code to pop up. Won't know for certain, unless diagnostics are being done. Note that some mechanics charge between $85-$105 per hour for diagnostic work - for this issue, I would make sure the shop has access to TIS (Toyota Information System - usually web subscription based) and is very familiar with this family of engine. Otherwise, I'd take the car to a Toyota dealership.

The P1349 - VVT issue does affect a wide range of Toyotas - most of them result in electrical issues (bad battery, loose chassis grounds, faulty wiring, etc.). Most of that you can diagnose yourself with a mirror and a good multimeter. There should be quite a bit of information online, including some PDF documentation on how to diagnose the P1394 code. Most involve checking for signal and power to the OCV and ECM. There are a few cases that the VVT malfunction is attributed to excessive wear on a plate from a pin in the VVT actuator itself. This cannot be diagnosed without removing the valvecover and disassembling the valvetrain. But there are "tricks" to see if this is the case - but unfortunantely, none are 100% absolute.

#15 kabhikabhi

kabhikabhi

    Neutral

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 27 February 2009 - 03:13 AM

thanks for your reply. i think you are corect it ws P0420 code.... i would like to do it myself the initial testing and diagnosis.... few more qsn?

1) i would like to test the o2 sensor. following steps should be ok. what do you think? http://wiki.answers....th_a_volt_meter

2) any link on some PDF documentation on how to diagnose the P1394 code. initial search resulted no pdf... will search extensivle on weekend...


<br />Do you know what the Catalytic code was? I'm assuming that it was P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold. Given the amount of time between those occurances, I would chalk this up to the ECM getting confused/bad tank of gasoline. Only way to know for sure is to backprobe the O2 sensors (both the upstream (pre-cat) and downstream (post-cat) sensors) and verify their output traces on a meter, preferably an oscope. This assumes that the sensors are working correctly, as it is common at this age/mileage to have a sensor start to get &quot;lazy&quot; or not quite fail or slowly fail on you.<br /><br />You are correct in that these OBD-II codes only indicate logic failure in the ECM - they do not specifically say what part is faulty. The ECM can only ascertain failure (either directly or indirectly) from other sensor inputs. The code just tells the mechanic where to start looking. There are cases where a certain code on a certain model year is indicative of a common failure. The mechanic still has to do some diagnostic work to confirm his suspicions before any part is replaced. Also possible that the two codes might be interlinked - a possible VVT issue caused the initial P0420 code to pop up. Won't know for certain, unless diagnostics are being done. Note that some mechanics charge between $85-$105 per hour for diagnostic work - for this issue, I would make sure the shop has access to TIS (Toyota Information System - usually web subscription based) and is very familiar with this family of engine. Otherwise, I'd take the car to a Toyota dealership.<br /><br />The P1349 - VVT issue does affect a wide range of Toyotas - most of them result in electrical issues (bad battery, loose chassis grounds, faulty wiring, etc.). Most of that you can diagnose yourself with a mirror and a good multimeter. There should be quite a bit of information online, including some PDF documentation on how to diagnose the P1394 code. Most involve checking for signal and power to the OCV and ECM. There are a few cases that the VVT malfunction is attributed to excessive wear on a plate from a pin in the VVT actuator itself. This cannot be diagnosed without removing the valvecover and disassembling the valvetrain. But there are &quot;tricks&quot; to see if this is the case - but unfortunantely, none are 100% absolute.<br />

<br /><br /><br />